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Thread: General Religion Thread: Unto the End of Days...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greggy Gloom View Post
    What do they always say, bad things happen to good people? My mom's friend, a devout woman suffered from mesothelioma (caused by asbestos exposure) for her last days on this earth, an excruciating disease that basically smothers you to death from the inside of your lungs. What did she do to deserve it? I like to think she is with her husband now.

    That aside, the one thing I always ask my CCD students is why they even bother coming to class. I ask how many people, in a class of 20, actually go to mass every week, and three kids raised their hands. I ask how many go on Christmas and Easter, and they all went up. HYPOCRISY. Then I asked how many people will go to church after they make confirmation the year after I have them, and only two hands went up because their parents will make them. I told every kid to go home and ask their parents why they even bother sending the kids to CCD when a) the parents don't go to church themselves, b) the parents don't care, c) the kids don't go to church, and d) the kids don't care. What is the point? Oh boy, the office was not happy with me after that.
    im not a hypocrite. i dont go on easter, xmas , or any other time. ive been in a church for my kids' baptisms and about a dozen or more funerals in the past 3 years and thats about it. maybe i should start, maybe i will, maybe i wont. my feeling is that the kid should make communion and go through the motions and let them decide how closely they want to follow. i've been through tough stretches in my life which sometimes led me to say ... why? wtf? my inlaws go to church and will take my kids with them from time to time. my daughter is a handful so that doesnt always work out to well. there will come a time when they can decide for themselves. I want to believe, I really do but sometimes .... ya know ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cash or Czech? View Post
    Jewish here. Had a Bar Mitzvah, but after that I was pretty much done with Judaism until sophomore year of High School. I joined a high school regional youth movement called NFTY (NorthAmerican Federation of Temple Youth) which is where I really "found my religion". I got incredibly involved, but I think my downfall came when I was elected for the Regional Board. That was my senior year, and after one of the regional events (we have about seven or eight), I was ready to quit because I didn't find it enjoyable anymore. I got through the rest of the year and just finished on a quiet note. Through this organization I also spent two different summers in programs, one for community service and the other for leadership training.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that though I may have lost all belief in religion and god, I found a lot of important things. I met my first girlfriend in the organization and we dated for a year and a half. I met both of my best friends through the community service program over the summer, and I've made bonds with people across the country that I won't forget anytime soon. I've learned a lot of things about myself and maybe learned a few things that have changed who I am today. I didn't really "find god", but I found other people to turn to when everything is sour, and there are some experiences that I've gone through that have made me who I am. I guess even though I'm not religious, religion really shaped me personally.
    That's what religion should be for, a sense of community. People should be able to get together and worship freely, and spend time with each other and host events, play games, etc. I have nothing against that aspect of religion. It's when that starts to drift outside of the church/temple walls. What percentage of people on earth regularly practice their religion? I would say an enormous percent. Look at how many problems in the world today are caused by religious extremism. You can go back a thousand years to Christians murdering innocent Muslims in the Holy Land, and a more recent example being, of course, the fact that there used to be two towers standing tall in New York City. Religion caused all of that. Not being biased against any one kind. But I'm a regular practicing Catholic, yet I cannot be myself around my devout Christian friends (except one, who is oddly enough a theology student who isn't nuts) for fear of rejection. Funny enough, and I mentioned this earlier, my Jewish friends are the only ones that don't mention anything negative about me. And I thank them for that. And of course, my atheist/agnostic/practicing-but-not-die-hard friends are very easy to get along with as well. I think John Lennon wrote a song about all that. LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey37 View Post
    im not a hypocrite. i dont go on easter, xmas , or any other time. ive been in a church for my kids' baptisms and about a dozen or more funerals in the past 3 years and thats about it. maybe i should start, maybe i will, maybe i wont. my feeling is that the kid should make communion and go through the motions and let them decide how closely they want to follow. i've been through tough stretches in my life which sometimes led me to say ... why? wtf? my inlaws go to church and will take my kids with them from time to time. my daughter is a handful so that doesnt always work out to well. there will come a time when they can decide for themselves. I want to believe, I really do but sometimes .... ya know ?
    I wasn't calling you a hypocrite. People have different reasons for doing different things. I was just generalizing based on personal experience in the classroom.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greggy Gloom View Post
    I wasn't calling you a hypocrite. People have different reasons for doing different things. I was just generalizing based on personal experience in the classroom.
    i know ... i was just saying that i'm not one of those people
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cash or Czech? View Post
    Jewish here. Had a Bar Mitzvah, but after that I was pretty much done with Judaism until sophomore year of High School. I joined a high school regional youth movement called NFTY (NorthAmerican Federation of Temple Youth) which is where I really "found my religion". I got incredibly involved, but I think my downfall came when I was elected for the Regional Board. That was my senior year, and after one of the regional events (we have about seven or eight), I was ready to quit because I didn't find it enjoyable anymore. I got through the rest of the year and just finished on a quiet note. Through this organization I also spent two different summers in programs, one for community service and the other for leadership training.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that though I may have lost all belief in religion and god, I found a lot of important things. I met my first girlfriend in the organization and we dated for a year and a half. I met both of my best friends through the community service program over the summer, and I've made bonds with people across the country that I won't forget anytime soon. I've learned a lot of things about myself and maybe learned a few things that have changed who I am today. I didn't really "find god", but I found other people to turn to when everything is sour, and there are some experiences that I've gone through that have made me who I am. I guess even though I'm not religious, religion really shaped me personally.
    really? the name Weinstein threw us off
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey37 View Post
    really? the name Weinstein threw us off
    I thought he was Australian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cash or Czech? View Post
    Jewish here. Had a Bar Mitzvah, but after that I was pretty much done with Judaism until sophomore year of High School. I joined a high school regional youth movement called NFTY (NorthAmerican Federation of Temple Youth) which is where I really "found my religion". I got incredibly involved, but I think my downfall came when I was elected for the Regional Board. That was my senior year, and after one of the regional events (we have about seven or eight), I was ready to quit because I didn't find it enjoyable anymore. I got through the rest of the year and just finished on a quiet note. Through this organization I also spent two different summers in programs, one for community service and the other for leadership training.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that though I may have lost all belief in religion and god, I found a lot of important things. I met my first girlfriend in the organization and we dated for a year and a half. I met both of my best friends through the community service program over the summer, and I've made bonds with people across the country that I won't forget anytime soon. I've learned a lot of things about myself and maybe learned a few things that have changed who I am today. I didn't really "find god", but I found other people to turn to when everything is sour, and there are some experiences that I've gone through that have made me who I am. I guess even though I'm not religious, religion really shaped me personally.
    Pet peeve of mine here...

    You aren't Jewish unless you practice. Really not a fan of people being their religion simply because they were "baptized" or "bar mitzvahed", etc. Religion is a choice — race/ethnicity and nationality are not. If you were born white, you're white, but you can't be born "Jewish".
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greggy Gloom View Post
    I thought he was Australian.
    no jews in Australia?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey37 View Post
    no jews in Australia?
    Maybe that's why Hitler didn't invade there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rome 2.0 View Post
    Pet peeve of mine here...

    You aren't Jewish unless you practice. Really not a fan of people being their religion simply because they were "baptized" or "bar mitzvahed", etc. Religion is a choice — race/ethnicity and nationality are not. If you were born white, you're white, but you can't be born "Jewish".
    eh, its a gray area. there are things done in people's lives according to what religion they believe in or practiced at one time. when someone dies i'm not supposed to go to the church for the mass? i can't celebrate xmas, easter, etc... ?
    Last edited by Mikey37; 03-09-2011 at 12:55 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rome 2.0 View Post
    Pet peeve of mine here...

    You aren't Jewish unless you practice. Really not a fan of people being their religion simply because they were "baptized" or "bar mitzvahed", etc. Religion is a choice — race/ethnicity and nationality are not. If you were born white, you're white, but you can't be born "Jewish".
    If any religion is a race, it's Judaism. Sorry if that sounds wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greggy Gloom View Post
    Maybe that's why Hitler didn't invade there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey37 View Post
    eh, its a gray area. there are things done in people's live according to what they religion they believe in or practiced at one time. when someone dies i'm not supposed to go to the church for the mass? i can't celebrate xmas, easter, etc... ?
    What does that have anything to do with you "being" something by birth? Jews are only Jewish if they practice. By practice, I simply mean believe in the customs of what you claim you are.

    Being "Jewish" is no different than being "Democrat". Unless you actually believe in the party, you aren't a Democrat. It's a social affiliation, not a genetic inheritance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rome 2.0 View Post
    What does that have anything to do with you "being" something by birth? Jews are only Jewish if they practice. By practice, I simply mean believe in the customs of what you claim you are.

    Being "Jewish" is no different than being "Democrat". Unless you actually believe in the party, you aren't a Democrat. It's a social affiliation, not a genetic inheritance.
    but if you don't go to church or pray regularly, does that make you less of what you're claiming to be? i'm catholic, i don't go to church regularly but i celebrate xmas and easter. i dont eat meat on friday's during lent. my kids go to ccd and will make communion. so if i dont go to church , what does that make me?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greggy Gloom View Post
    If any religion is a race, it's Judaism. Sorry if that sounds wrong.
    100% true ... i understand your point there
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey37 View Post
    but if you don't go to church or pray regularly, does that make you less of what you're claiming to be? i'm catholic, i don't go to church regularly but i celebrate xmas and easter. i dont eat meat on friday's during lent. my kids go to ccd and will make communion. so if i dont go to church , what does that make me?
    "Less of"? That's for your church and yourself to decide, but so long as you believe what you were brought up to or learned to believe you are what you say you are. My problem is with folks who are agnostic or atheist, for example, who grew up in a Jewish household still being referred to as Jewish. Jews are not a race, ethnicity or nationality — there is no "Jewland" from which they come from, so being "Jewish" means you believe in a set of values and principles instilled in that particular social grouping that identify you as such. There's nothing inherent about being Jewish, only what would be inherited from the national/ethnic background from which that family came.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rome 2.0 View Post
    "Less of"? That's for your church and yourself to decide, but so long as you believe what you were brought up to or learned to believe you are what you say you are. My problem is with folks who are agnostic or atheist, for example, who grew up in a Jewish household still being referred to as Jewish. Jews are not a race, ethnicity or nationality — there is no "Jewland" from which they come from, so being "Jewish" means you believe in a set of values and principles instilled in that particular social grouping that identify you as such. There's nothing inherent about being Jewish, only what would be inherited from the national/ethnic background from which that family came.
    gotcha
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rome 2.0 View Post
    Pet peeve of mine here...

    You aren't Jewish unless you practice. Really not a fan of people being their religion simply because they were "baptized" or "bar mitzvahed", etc. Religion is a choice — race/ethnicity and nationality are not. If you were born white, you're white, but you can't be born "Jewish".
    Judaism is a lot more than just practicing and praying to god. A major aspect to the Reform sect of Judaism (the one I am a part of) believes that Jewish morals are just as important as praying. Also, praying can be done in one's own way. Some pray in temple, some at home. Some say or chant the hebrew, some sing and play songs. Some of my favorite guitar songs that I play on guitar are Jewish or are actually modified songs/covers (Redemption Song by Bob Marley, for example is adapted to Hebrew prayer). I'm incredibly liberal when it comes to what constitutes being Jewish, as are most in the Reform sect. I will always identify Judaism as my moral code.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cash or Czech? View Post
    Judaism is a lot more than just practicing and praying to god. A major aspect to the Reform sect of Judaism (the one I am a part of) believes that Jewish morals are just as important as praying. Also, praying can be done in one's own way. Some pray in temple, some at home. Some say or chant the hebrew, some sing and play songs. Some of my favorite guitar songs that I play on guitar are Jewish or are actually modified songs/covers (Redemption Song by Bob Marley, for example is adapted to Hebrew prayer). I'm incredibly liberal when it comes to what constitutes being Jewish, as are most in the Reform sect. I will always identify Judaism as my moral code.
    None of which are genetic, hence you are only Jewish by choice, not birth.

    All that matters here is that in order to be "Jewish", you have to believe in some semblance of what it stands for. It is impossible for an atheist to be Jewish.
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    I disagree with that. Why can an atheist not believe in the moral aspect of Judaism, which is one of the most fundamental things of being a Jew?

    In being Christian or Catholic, I believe one has to accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior (please correct me if I'm wrong, I entered a church for the first time in my life over the summer in France). In Judaism, there is no accepting that anyone is God. There is no devoting your life to such a thing. There is the option for an atheist to believe in the fundamentals of Judaism, yet still continue their belief there is no god.

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