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Thread: Christopher Hitchens Passes Away at Age 62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klions99
    lol Renegade

    the only cool thing about Hitchens was the fact he was pro-life. I am surprised to learn that actually.
    He was also full on for the war in Iraq. No one ever said he was perfect, only brilliant.
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    @RichardDawkins: RT @rdfrs:
    Christopher Hitchens Memoirs - Hitch - Sam Harris
    http://t.co/3MpEPU2D
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    "Don't take refuge in the false security of consensus, and the feeling that whatever
    you think you'e bound to be okay, because you're in the safely moral majority."

    - Christopher Hitchens

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    He may have been very intelligent, but as soon as I read that he went after Mother Theresa, I thought "What a dumb-ass!". Say what you want about the Catholic church, priests, etc. and I might even be on-board with some of your points, but Mother Theresa was one person who practiced what she preached. She was a truly selfless, good, kind human being. IMO, he stepped way over the line with that one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BleedzNYRBlue View Post
    He may have been very intelligent, but as soon as I read that he went after Mother Theresa, I thought "What a dumb-ass!". Say what you want about the Catholic church, priests, etc. and I might even be on-board with some of your points, but Mother Theresa was one person who practiced what she preached. She was a truly selfless, good, kind human being. IMO, he stepped way over the line with that one.
    Did you actually read the argument against her, or just get angry because he demonized someone the media cast as a saint on earth?

    You're taking about a woman who called abortion (under any circumstances, including rape and incest) and contraception "the greatest destroyer of peace".
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    "Don't take refuge in the false security of consensus, and the feeling that whatever
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    - Christopher Hitchens

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rome 2.0 View Post
    Did you actually read the argument against her, or just get angry because he demonized someone the media cast as a saint on earth?

    You're taking about a woman who called abortion (under any circumstances, including rape and incest) and contraception "the greatest destroyer of peace".
    She's Catholic Nun - those views are what she was taught from a very yoiung age, plus given her advanced age, that generation didn't believe in abortion or contraception, for the most part. I don't share her views on them, but I sure as hell wouldn't eviscerate her in the media because of them. I think her life's work speaks for itself. Sorry, but I'm of the opinion that he went too far. He could get as snarky and pompous as he wanted to at his keyboard, but what kind of humanitarian efforts did he get out of his chair and do? Did he feed starving children? Did he comfort the sick and dying? If so, then great! If not, well... We'll just have to agree to disagree.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BleedzNYRBlue View Post
    She's Catholic Nun - those views are what she was taught from a very yoiung age, plus given her advanced age, that generation didn't believe in abortion or contraception, for the most part. I don't share her views on them, but I sure as hell wouldn't eviscerate her in the media because of them. I think her life's work speaks for itself. Sorry, but I'm of the opinion that he went too far. He could get as snarky and pompous as he wanted to at his keyboard, but what kind of humanitarian efforts did he get out of his chair and do? Did he feed starving children? Did he comfort the sick and dying? If so, then great! If not, well... We'll just have to agree to disagree.
    Apparently I gave out too much rep in the last 24 hours, but this is a great post, not that I even agree with all the content. Still great model of how to debate without being a dBag.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peetie27 View Post
    Apparently I gave out too much rep in the last 24 hours, but this is a great post, not that I even agree with all the content. Still great model of how to debate without being a dBag.

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    Yes, my son. lol
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    He may have been been brilliant but he was also a tool when he wanted to be. Mother Theresa though, come on Phil. Like Robin said, what exactly did he ever offer as a humanitarian?
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    Quote Originally Posted by BleedzNYRBlue View Post
    She's Catholic Nun - those views are what she was taught from a very yoiung age, plus given her advanced age, that generation didn't believe in abortion or contraception, for the most part. I don't share her views on them, but I sure as hell wouldn't eviscerate her in the media because of them. I think her life's work speaks for itself. Sorry, but I'm of the opinion that he went too far. He could get as snarky and pompous as he wanted to at his keyboard, but what kind of humanitarian efforts did he get out of his chair and do? Did he feed starving children? Did he comfort the sick and dying? If so, then great! If not, well... We'll just have to agree to disagree.
    Feeding starving children, comforting the sick and dying, etc. are not acceptable acts to expunge anyone of other "evils" they may be responsible for. If you molest little boys but hold a bake sale for your local church, you are still a pedophile and a piece of shit regardless of how much money you raise for others, so "humanitarian" efforts are simply not good enough on their own.

    Hitchens went to great lengths to prove points of his. He was beaten in Beirut and even submitted himself willingly to waterboarding to prove that it was torture. The video is online for the world to see.

    As to Theresa, Hitchens sensationalized his criticisms of her, but that doesn't mean she didn't actually warrant those criticisms.

    This is a woman who believed "suffering" would bring people closer to Jesus. She was responsible (in some way or another) for the gross neglect and physical and emotional abuse of orphans in her camps because she felt by forcing those children to "suffer", they'd be closer to God. She refused to use pain killers or anesthetics of any kind on even the most hardened cases. Her response? That suffering and pain was "the most beautiful gift for a person that he can participate in the sufferings of Christ". These are not only delusions of grandeur, but dangerous ones at that that likely cost some of them their lives, yet it's not OK to criticize her simply because she was pious?

    I know you likely won't do so because you probably aren't as invested in this as I am, and I don't blame you if you've bought the media's view on what Mother Theresa really did, but the reports from numerous reputable magazines/publishers and critics are simply too much for me to take what she did at face value. I think she had the right intentions in most cases, but went about a lot of it the wrong way because of her faith. I also don't buy that she was as much of a humanist as she was a missionary who put her faith before the care of her 'patients'.
    Last edited by Phil in Absentia; 12-19-2011 at 12:43 PM.
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    "Don't take refuge in the false security of consensus, and the feeling that whatever
    you think you'e bound to be okay, because you're in the safely moral majority."

    - Christopher Hitchens

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueJay View Post
    He may have been been brilliant but he was also a tool when he wanted to be. Mother Theresa though, come on Phil. Like Robin said, what exactly did he ever offer as a humanitarian?
    See above. I get the sense you've never really read his work or know much of what he actually did outside of a few YouTube videos where he verbally berated others?
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    "Don't take refuge in the false security of consensus, and the feeling that whatever
    you think you'e bound to be okay, because you're in the safely moral majority."

    - Christopher Hitchens

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueJay View Post
    Count as what — sufficiently understanding his work? Absolutely not. His work covered a much wider range of topics than he was polarized for. He wrote at length about the lives and work(s) of Thomas Jefferson and Thomas Paine, wrote at length about the necessity for the Iraq war and wrote countless op-ed pieces covering a slew of topics/current events for The Atlantic, Free Inquiry, The Nation, Salon, Slate, Vanity Fair and World Affairs.

    Unfortunately because of his tendency to berate his opponents in open debates (in which he took on all comers), he's being painted as a voracious blowhard who's life goal was to slag on religion and the religious at every turn, which simply is not the case.
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    - Christopher Hitchens

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    I am kind of with Phil on this Mother Theresa issue. I realize that people see her as someone who did great things, but the harm religious world leaders have done with their preaching about the evil caused by condoms far outweighs them cuddling with orphans or feeding a poor town. That town might've not been as poor if in fact people like her didn't tell people that condoms are wrong. Action and reaction.

    Hitchens, like Dawkins, are atheist fundamentalist and that rubs a lot of people who don't agree with them or who are more agnostic the wrong way, immediately. However, that doesn't make them right and you need people to stir the pot and point out certain levels of hypocrisy. Hypocrisy like feeding poor who might not have been as poor if they didn't have 12 mouths to feed or if they weren't battling HIV/AIDS after you told them that things that could've saved from that situation were the bad thing to do.
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    I understand that but, to do it while they are alive is one thing. I don't agree doing it after they are dead and buried, a little respect is all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueJay View Post
    I understand that but, to do it while they are alive is one thing. I don't agree doing it after they are dead and buried, a little respect is all.
    Certainly isn't stopping anyone from criticizing Hitch after he passed, so I fail to see your point.
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    "Don't take refuge in the false security of consensus, and the feeling that whatever
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    - Christopher Hitchens

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rome 2.0 View Post
    Certainly isn't stopping anyone from criticizing Hitch after he passed, so I fail to see your point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jules View Post
    I am kind of with Phil on this Mother Theresa issue. I realize that people see her as someone who did great things, but the harm religious world leaders have done with their preaching about the evil caused by condoms far outweighs them cuddling with orphans or feeding a poor town. That town might've not been as poor if in fact people like her didn't tell people that condoms are wrong. Action and reaction.

    Hitchens, like Dawkins, are atheist fundamentalist and that rubs a lot of people who don't agree with them or who are more agnostic the wrong way, immediately. However, that doesn't make them right and you need people to stir the pot and point out certain levels of hypocrisy. Hypocrisy like feeding poor who might not have been as poor if they didn't have 12 mouths to feed or if they weren't battling HIV/AIDS after you told them that things that could've saved from that situation were the bad thing to do.
    The laundry list of criticisms and controversies attached to Mother Theresa's name and her organizational ties are astounding. Problem is, the media never picked up on it or simply refused to report on them, so she remained an untainted saint in the public eye.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rome 2.0 View Post
    The laundry list of criticisms and controversies attached to Mother Theresa's name and her organizational ties are astounding. Problem is, the media never picked up on it or simply refused to report on them, so she remained an untainted saint in the public eye.
    Even the once so loved popes have fallen from their pillars. One day I'm sure the truth will be heard... or hurt, however you look at it.
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    Sorry boys, but this is just something that hits close to my heart. My father-in-law's oldest sister is a Nun, and I care about her a great deal. She's 85 and she's been a Nun since she was 18; she graduated High School, then joined the Order soon after. She's one of the sweetest women on the planet. Nuns take a vow of chastity of course, but also of poverty. When you are not encumbered by material things, you are able to give of yourself freely. And she has done that, she has taken care of people her whole life. Now it's her turn to be taken care of because the poor dear is showing signs of alzheimer's. Unfortunately, there's always going to be "bad apples" in any faith or profession, but she's not one of them.
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    Actually, she is, but you're not going to be able to see it because you're blinded by how personal the matter is to you. The fact of the matter is that your father-in-law's oldest sister is irrelevant to the Mother Theresa discussion.

    Refusing to provide anesthetics during surgeries and medical procedures is morally and ethically corrupt. If not for her blistering faith she would actually have done so having understood how vital pain management is when healing others experiencing it.

    I'm not even going to get into the financial question marks that surround her "charities" where millions of dollars never seemed to make it to any of these proposed areas of struggle and yet went completely unaccounted for.
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