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Thread: General Political Thread: News, Slander & Debate

  1. #41
    The artist formerly known as Mr. Smith Junior Division
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Not Here View Post
    Well, the disemination of information, going back to the printing press has limited government power. It's why censorship is one of the strongest political tools a government can possess next to the ability and willingness to kill in mass.
    However, on the other side of that, you have "information" coming from everyone who wants to be heard. And as we can see with the media conglomerates, much of it are false or only half truths. I completely disagree with censorship, we have done a 180 with that respect. There is now too much misinformation, and it is believed widely. And that affects government power as well. At this point, misinformation has stripped government of a large amount of power. We cant get anything done.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peetie27 View Post
    Agree 100%.

    Add into that, the human condition promotes "What's mine is mine, and what's yours is mine." I guess that's under your "greed" umbrella.
    Yes. You can see this in babies. They take what they want, when they want, until they're taught not to.
    “Fairy tales are more than true: not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten.” ― Neil Gaiman,

  3. #43
    Senior Member Bantam Division Niagaraiceman's Avatar
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    Glad to see some affirmation in my class lecture notes! At least I am not the only one who sees it!

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niagaraiceman View Post
    Glad to see some affirmation in my class lecture notes! At least I am not the only one who sees it!
    Hey, if it stirs debate, your doing your job well!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Smith View Post
    However, on the other side of that, you have "information" coming from everyone who wants to be heard. And as we can see with the media conglomerates, much of it are false or only half truths. I completely disagree with censorship, we have done a 180 with that respect. There is now too much misinformation, and it is believed widely. And that affects government power as well. At this point, misinformation has stripped government of a large amount of power. We cant get anything done.
    Information has validity once it's believed. How much validity depends on how many believe a certain thing. When you have 1 person believing a truth, it has much less validity than 100 people believing a lie. As far as information overload, I think the main benefit is in the passivity it creates. The more jumbled the voice of a people, the easier they are to control.
    “Fairy tales are more than true: not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten.” ― Neil Gaiman,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Not Here View Post
    Information has validity once it's believed. How much validity depends on how many believe a certain thing. When you have 1 person believing a truth, it has much less validity than 100 people believing a lie. As far as information overload, I think the main benefit is in the passivity it creates. The more jumbled the voice of a people, the easier they are to control.
    But thats what i mean, just because 1 million people think Obama is a muslim, doesn't make it fact. Information may be valid because its believed, but it doesnt make it true. Thats Propaganda.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Smith View Post
    But thats what i mean, just because 1 million people think Obama is a muslim, doesn't make it fact. Information may be valid because its believed, but it doesnt make it true. Thats Propaganda.
    Right, I wasn't disagreeing with what you said, just expanding on it a bit.
    “Fairy tales are more than true: not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten.” ― Neil Gaiman,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Smith View Post
    But thats what i mean, just because 1 million people think Obama is a muslim, doesn't make it fact. Information may be valid because its believed, but it doesnt make it true. Thats Propaganda.


    Perception = Truth ≠ Fact

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Not Here View Post
    Right, I wasn't disagreeing with what you said, just expanding on it a bit.
    I got that. I was talking with my boss about it the other day. Its so damaging, the misinformation that is out there. People in this country look so heavily into the big three news networks. There are outside sources like the Guardian or the Independent. Or less biased sources within the states such as NPR. But news isn't ethical anymore, its attractive. No journalism standards whatsoever.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Smith View Post
    I got that. I was talking with my boss about it the other day. Its so damaging, the misinformation that is out there. People in this country look so heavily into the big three news networks. There are outside sources like the Guardian or the Independent. Or less biased sources within the states such as NPR. But news isn't ethical anymore, its attractive. No journalism standards whatsoever.
    What is really sad is the Daily Show. Don't get me wrong, I love the show, but the only reason it exists is to point out all the follies with our "real" news programs. I find out more "news" on the daily show than I do on actual "news" channels. That's very disturbing.

    The fact that I can't turn on Fox because it's biased toward the right or MSNBC because it's biased toward the left is a shame. I can't get real news anywhere on regular cable. Luckily I get BBC so at least that's a decent alternative (still not perfect).

    News is in a sad place right now. Voting for the news stories you want to hear, youtube video clips of animals doing stupid shit, twitter shit. I mean its a disgrace.

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    It is, which is why i read The Guardian, or BBC or listen to NPR. Its Raw news. and from that i form opinions. Reading these sources i dont feel an underlying tone. But watching fox or msnbc, you can tell by the person's voice, their attitude toward the story. That is a giveaway of a biased reporter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Smith View Post
    It is, which is why i read The Guardian, or BBC or listen to NPR. Its Raw news. and from that i form opinions. Reading these sources i dont feel an underlying tone. But watching fox or msnbc, you can tell by the person's voice, their attitude toward the story. That is a giveaway of a biased reporter.
    Fox will tell you that NPR has a liberal bias.

  13. #53
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    All News is biased. We tend to see less bias when that slant aligns itself with our beliefs, that's all.
    “Fairy tales are more than true: not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten.” ― Neil Gaiman,

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    This is news: Man hit by car.

    This is biased: Beloved charity worker and father of 3 struck by drunk driver with blood alcohol level of 1.8 driving recklessly on Main Street.

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    Democracy and the voice and rights of the people killed in a bizarre few weeks under Republ... uh, Tea Party rule in Wisconsin. Scott Walker is the biggest puppet of corporations I've ever seen. He just took away ALL collective bargaining rights for teachers, including UW-Madison professors, who are contemplating a general university strike. This is suicidal for the Tea Party, a vast majority (around 65%) of all Wisconsinites are already against these plans... Walker doesn't care.

    He wants to fix a $140 million deficit by cutting employees rights and education budgets, a week after giving 30 of his supporting corporations a total $117 million tax cut. What a joke.
    Nothing is true, everything is permitted.
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    'Tis the American Free-Market way
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  17. #57
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    While the State could decide to not collectively bargain with an official union and instead negotiate with individual employees, there is nothing stopping the state workers from assembling and collectively agreeing on what they will and will not accept as far as any new individual contracts, including and up to refusing to report to work and staging organized protests.

    In effect, just because the state refuses to deal with the union does not mean the union can not excercise in the same manor that it always has. They can't stop workers from organizing, all they can do is refuse to deal directly with union leaders.
    “Fairy tales are more than true: not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten.” ― Neil Gaiman,

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    Unions were great, 60 years ago.

    Now they are just as corrupt as the government. The only way unions could work is if every job was union. You can't have some jobs be union and others not be union.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peetie27 View Post
    Unions were great, 60 years ago.

    Now they are just as corrupt as the government. The only way unions could work is if every job was union. You can't have some jobs be union and others not be union.
    It doesn't matter, though. The constitution protects all the activities that unions engage in. There is no outlawing unions. Business and government can refuse to recognize them and deal with them directly, but that does nothing to limit their power. The only thing that can limit a union's power is the will of it's membership. Lets face it, the unions in Wisconsin can effectively shut down the state if they have the resolve to win this battle and there's nothing the state can do about it. Trying to fire all of the state workers and replace them would be a disaster.

    And if we got rid of unions tomorrow, there would be severe corporate abuse of the workforce by the next day.
    “Fairy tales are more than true: not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten.” ― Neil Gaiman,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Not Here View Post
    It doesn't matter, though. The constitution protects all the activities that unions engage in. There is no outlawing unions. Business and government can refuse to recognize them and deal with them directly, but that does nothing to limit their power. The only thing that can limit a union's power is the will of it's membership. Lets face it, the unions in Wisconsin can effectively shut down the state if they have the resolve to win this battle and there's nothing the state can do about it. Trying to fire all of the state workers and replace them would be a disaster.

    And if we got rid of unions tomorrow, there would be severe corporate abuse of the workforce by the next day.
    Which is why every job needs to be union. You can't have garbage men pulling in $150k with OT, benefits, and a pension at 58 years old but have a legal assistant making half that pulling 70 hour weeks with no 401k or health benefits. I'm exaggerating of couse, just sayin'.

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