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Thread: General Political Thread: News, Slander & Debate

  1. #9921
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Why shouldn't they "make a stink" about $5.7B?

    They offered almost $2B for DACA when Republicans were in control and he wouldn't do it.

    In every way, shape and form, this is all his doing.
    There is a reason to choose this particular issue to opt for a shutdown over passing the bill, and it isn't about money.

    I am trying to envision what happens next. I really don't see either side budging, which means the shutdown continues until Trump goes for the national emergency.

  2. #9922
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Why shouldn't they "make a stink" about $5.7B?

    They offered almost $2B for DACA when Republicans were in control and he wouldn't do it.

    In every way, shape and form, this is all his doing.
    They offered quite a bit more than 2 billion.
    House democrats pushed through 18 billion of border security....it was senate republicans who shot the bill down


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  3. #9923
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    There is a reason to choose this particular issue to opt for a shutdown over passing the bill, and it isn't about money.

    I am trying to envision what happens next. I really don't see either side budging, which means the shutdown continues until Trump goes for the national emergency.
    That might be the end game, but he won't win that battle (state of emergency).

    Trump will have to back down because without the majority his budget will never pass.

  4. #9924
    Senior Member Squirt Division NY Chief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    There is a reason to choose this particular issue to opt for a shutdown over passing the bill, and it isn't about money.

    I am trying to envision what happens next. I really don't see either side budging, which means the shutdown continues until Trump goes for the national emergency.
    Schemer and pelosi want him to open govt and talk wall separately. Yeah, we’ve seen that can kicked down the road a few times. Great speech even if he didnt write it. He should asked how big the wall around pelosi’s place(s) is.
    Last edited by NY Chief; 01-09-2019 at 09:41 AM.

  5. #9925
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    Someone has spent too much time around NYC, Washington, gated communities, golf courses, all with fences and security to keep the riff-raff out. When you have been in lawsuits all your life, you have many enemies you need protection from.... and paranoia about anyone who approaches you on the street.
    "We're all f*cked. It helps to remember that." - George Carlin

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  6. #9926
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    Speech was horrible, forced, and full of lies like everything Trump says.

    It's amazing that government is shut down because Trump is such a simpleton that he equates "security" with a wall.

    More likely he's clinging to this because he hasn't been able to keep any of his campaign promises so far.

  7. #9927
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    That's certainly a factor given the Dems flipping the House. The fact he couldn't get any of his promises passed despite a supermajority is incredible, too, but stands as a testament to the strength and resolve of our system that didn't allow his Muslim ban to stand no matter how many times he tried for it, for example.

    Then again, when your ideas effectively chalk up to "if Obama's name is on it, undo it," is it any wonder nothing has been done? He has no actual ideas. Just 1950's rhetoric and fueled by race-baiting.

    I think more than anything, though, the govn't is shut down because Trump watches only FOX news and Ann Coulter basically embarrassed him and suggested that without his wall, he's a loser. The bully has been bullied into an unwinnable position now becuase he's afraid of looking weak or, in his own words, "foolish."
    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If you’re a good loser, you’re a loser."
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  8. #9928
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    Then again, when your ideas effectively chalk up to "if Obama's name is on it, undo it," "
    And how is that different from "If Trump wants it, we're against"? Really? Cmon, a bit hypocritical innit? If Trump said oxygen is good all the Dems would hold their breath.
    Last edited by NY Chief; 01-09-2019 at 11:06 AM.

  9. #9929
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    Can I ask you guys what you hope to accomplish with rhetoric like I've been seeing recently? What I mean is, why do you post in this thread? Are you looking to understand other people's views? Perhaps give them a new perspective that they may not have considered?

    This entire conversation lately seems like sound bites from conservative and liberal campaign rhetoric. Is the point just to cheer on one's team?
    Frisbeetarianism is the belief that when you die, your soul goes up on the roof and gets stuck. George Carlin

  10. #9930
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    WOW! That bastion of conservative girth PMSNBC / WaPo calls it like it went down????????????? Gives the night to Trump and calls out ding dong and dingbat???? Is this an alternate universe??? :-)

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinio...ZU6?ocid=ientp
    Last edited by NY Chief; 01-09-2019 at 01:19 PM.

  11. #9931
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    Did you actually read the article you just posted? This is an op-ed piece that happens to be published via the Post.

    "Editor’s note: The opinions in this article are the author’s, as published by our content partner, and do not necessarily represent the views of MSN or Microsoft."
    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If you’re a good loser, you’re a loser."
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    "Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence."
    - Christopher Hitchens

  12. #9932
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    Did you actually read the article you just posted? This is an op-ed piece that happens to be published via the Post.

    "Editor’s note: The opinions in this article are the author’s, as published by our content partner, and do not necessarily represent the views of MSN or Microsoft."
    Well, they also don't not represent the views of MSN. lol

  13. #9933
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    Maybe not.

    What I took away from the parts of both speeches I watched (I didn't watch either in full) is that Trump did what Trump usually does — lie — to reach out and energize his base and perhaps swing a handful of what few undecideds there might still be on the matter. Pelosi and Schumer did what they usually do. Spoke to facts in a mostly unrelatable, robotic fashion that simply doesn't resonate with many people. Let alone your average television viewer who had their night interrupted. So, it's not all that inconceivable that Trump "won" the night. It's just a shame he's incapable of doing so honestly. It's also a shame that the Dems don't have better personalities to help them win factual debates like this.
    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If you’re a good loser, you’re a loser."
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    "Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence."
    - Christopher Hitchens

  14. #9934
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    Gambling site takes big odds on how many times Trump will lie in his national address





    https://www.nydailynews.com/news/pol...Psd3NwG-XLi88I
    lmao. I want in

  15. #9935
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanJesus View Post
    Can I ask you guys what you hope to accomplish with rhetoric like I've been seeing recently? What I mean is, why do you post in this thread? Are you looking to understand other people's views? Perhaps give them a new perspective that they may not have considered?

    This entire conversation lately seems like sound bites from conservative and liberal campaign rhetoric. Is the point just to cheer on one's team?
    I try to put it out there for a discussion or new perspective but both sides don't want to hear it. that's why after a couple of posts I give up

  16. #9936
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    Maybe not.

    What I took away from the parts of both speeches I watched (I didn't watch either in full) is that Trump did what Trump usually does — lie — to reach out and energize his base and perhaps swing a handful of what few undecideds there might still be on the matter. Pelosi and Schumer did what they usually do. Spoke to facts in a mostly unrelatable, robotic fashion that simply doesn't resonate with many people. Let alone your average television viewer who had their night interrupted. So, it's not all that inconceivable that Trump "won" the night. It's just a shame he's incapable of doing so honestly. It's also a shame that the Dems don't have better personalities to help them win factual debates like this.

    this had me cracking up this morning
    Last edited by CCCP; 01-09-2019 at 02:32 PM.

  17. #9937
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    Did you actually read the article you just posted? This is an op-ed piece that happens to be published via the Post.

    "Editor’s note: The opinions in this article are the author’s, as published by our content partner, and do not necessarily represent the views of MSN or Microsoft."
    I'm just giving them credit for publishing ANYTHING pro Trump with their baggage

  18. #9938
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    Trump did what Trump usually does — lie — .
    What exactly groundbreaking, black vs white, hot vs cold, fact vs not fact did he really out and out LIE about? I heard some things that certainly go the typical truth bending generalization ballpark figures, politispeak BS, etc. And maybe some things to some people hanging on every word to find something negative to say. But I didn't hear any OMG he LIED other than the continued harping on "He SAID Mexico will pay" and who's fault the shutdown is. Nobody can argue his other MUCH more salient points. Even the NY Slimes fact check couldn't hold him to anything else other than "Misleading" or "Needs Context"... and I'm sure THAT was a hard pill for them to swallow.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/08/u...mp-speech.html
    Last edited by NY Chief; 01-09-2019 at 03:18 PM.

  19. #9939
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCCP View Post

    this had me cracking up this morning
    Great act...which one is the dummy?

  20. #9940
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY Chief View Post
    What exactly groundbreaking, black vs white, hot vs cold, fact vs not fact did he really out and out LIE about? I heard some things that certainly go the typical truth bending generalization ballpark figures, politispeak BS, etc. And maybe some things to some people hanging on every word to find something negative to say. But I didn't hear any OMG he LIED other than the continued harping on "He SAID Mexico will pay" and who's fault the shutdown is. Nobody can argue his other MUCH more salient points. Even the NY Slimes fact check couldn't hold him to anything else other than "Misleading" or "Needs Context"... and I'm sure THAT was a hard pill for them to swallow.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/08/u...mp-speech.html
    NY Chief, do you think that Trump mostly tells the truth or mostly lies?
    Frisbeetarianism is the belief that when you die, your soul goes up on the roof and gets stuck. George Carlin

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