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Thread: General Political Thread: News, Slander & Debate

  1. #9861
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    Wall seems to work pretty good for Israel.

  2. #9862
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    First off, no they didn't want the wall. People like Obama and Hillary campaigned talking about things like border security. That is in no way equal to spending 5.5 billion dollars to build an eyesore few want and that the country doesn't need, that won't actually address illegal immigration in a meaningful way. The vast majority of illegal immigration occurs from folks flying in and simply overstaying visas, not by rushing the border in "invasions."

    Everyone — at least everyone to be taken seriously — believes in border security. But none of this ladders up to "the wall."
    not true. I've seen Obama and Hillary clips where they say they wanted to build the wall.
    it seems to me "everyone" wants border security but no one, except trump, wants to do anything about it. Obama drastically increased deportations but never addressed the root of the problem--stopping them from crossing over in the first place and saving lots of $$ in the process. Tell me, what is the democratic party doing to stop illegal immigration? maybe there's something I don't about?

    that's the way I see it from where im sitting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunny View Post
    Wall seems to work pretty good for Israel.
    yeah but their wall isn't for stopping illegal immigration

  4. #9864
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCCP View Post
    not true. I've seen Obama and Hillary clips where they say they wanted to build the wall.
    it seems to me "everyone" wants border security but no one, except trump, wants to do anything about it. Obama drastically increased deportations but never addressed the root of the problem--stopping them from crossing over in the first place and saving lots of $$ in the process. Tell me, what is the democratic party doing to stop illegal immigration? maybe there's something I don't about?

    that's the way I see it from where im sitting.
    I doubt this. It might seem like semantics, but what they were arguing in favor for, and voted in favor of, was fencing.

    They did vote for the Secure Fence Act of 2006, which authorized building a fence along about 700 miles of the border between the United States and Mexico.

    Still, the fence they voted for is not as substantial as the wall Trump is proposing. Trump himself called the 2006 fence a "nothing wall."

    Mulvaney’s statement is partially accurate, but ignores important context. We rate it Half True.
    https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...der-wall-2006/

    That's what the Dems are doing to stop illegal immigration. They've also worked on progressive programs to provide pathways to citizenship, rather than presenting fake solutions like Trump's, which are effectively "just don't come."
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  5. #9865
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    So why then don't the Dems offer $5B for "fencing"? Because it's just all about "Nothing for Trump" We all know it.

    And the Dems "progressive programs to provide pathways to citizenship" are "Give every illegal here citizenship now and let anyone and everyone else in who wants to get it immediately"Come one, Come all!!! FREE, FREE, FREE!!!!
    Last edited by NY Chief; 01-07-2019 at 06:24 PM.

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    Yea, kind of like it was "nothing for Obama". People just don't like their own medicine.

  7. #9867
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    Democrats understand that democracy has fast devolved to what is essentially a racial headcount.

    The more minorities imported, the more votes they accumulate. It's really that simple. It has nothing to do with compassion or this or that. It's about power, and current immigration policy coupled with the 25 million+ illegals gives them power forever. Power that they will obtain as soon as two years from now and never surrender. It's just demographics, nothing more.

    On the other side of the coin, rank and file repubs like mass immigration and illegal amnesty because it benefits big business by artificially suppressing wages. None are really serious about changing that, they'll just play to their base and lose gracefully, as always.

    Enter Donald Trump who is genuinely the last chance to change that, and he's probably going to fail.

    Sure hope my great grandkids like favellas!

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    A wall is simply a fake way to say you've done something to stop immigration. Most illegals enter the country legally, and stay.

    Explain how this wall stops that.

    No one has done that. They just keep screaming wall. The people come in legally, the drugs come in through ports and tunnels. It's almost like no one who wants a wall deals in the reality that a wall won't really change anything except the deficit (massive cost to build and maintain).

    Also, I don't hear anyone talking about that whole "Mexico will build it" thing anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    A wall is simply a fake way to say you've done something to stop immigration. Most illegals enter the country legally, and stay.

    Explain how this wall stops that.

    No one has done that. They just keep screaming wall. The people come in legally, the drugs come in through ports and tunnels. It's almost like no one who wants a wall deals in the reality that a wall won't really change anything except the deficit (massive cost to build and maintain).

    Also, I don't hear anyone talking about that whole "Mexico will build it" thing anymore.
    So disregard the rest? Call it a day?

  10. #9870
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    So disregard the rest? Call it a day?
    Well, you disregarded the rest of the post so...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Well, you disregarded the rest of the post so...
    No. I read it, and I just read it again to make sure I didn't miss anything. I didn't see anything in your post regarding what to do with illegals who cross the border illegally, which is what my question was in regards to.

    It sounds like both scenarios are problems. Just because one might be a larger problem, it doesn't mean the other isn't a problem.

  12. #9872
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    No. I read it, and I just read it again to make sure I didn't miss anything. I didn't see anything in your post regarding what to do with illegals who cross the border illegally, which is what my question was in regards to.

    It sounds like both scenarios are problems. Just because one might be a larger problem, it doesn't mean the other isn't a problem.
    We're talking about a wall. Not who's already here. Completely separate issues.

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    Maybe if we close the door FIRST, the "wall people" will be more open to a "path to citizenship" for those already here. And "build the wall" is part of border security that very definitely should include eliminating birthright citizenship incentive.
    Last edited by NY Chief; 01-07-2019 at 08:14 PM.

  14. #9874
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    We're talking about a wall. Not who's already here. Completely separate issues.
    Re-read what I said.

    Your argument against a wall is because many of the illegal immigrants come across legally and then overstay their visas. As if that invalidates preventing illegals who come across illegally in the first place, which is what the wall is for.

  15. #9875
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY Chief View Post
    Maybe if we close the door FIRST, the "wall people" will be more open to a "path to citizenship" for those already here. And "build the wall" is part of border security that very definitely include eliminating birthright citizenship


    How does building a wall help with people who enter legally and then stay illegally?

  16. #9876
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    Re-read what I said.

    Your argument against a wall is because many of the illegal immigrants come across legally and then overstay their visas. As if that invalidates preventing illegals who come across illegally in the first place, which is what the wall is for.
    Do you also think band aids stop the bleeding of gunshots?

  17. #9877
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    How does building a wall help with people who enter legally and then stay illegally?
    It doesn't. That's a separate problem. But simply saying that it is a bigger problem isn't a solution to the problem that the wall addresses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    It doesn't. That's a separate problem. But simply saying that it is a bigger problem isn't a solution to the problem that the wall addresses.
    The wall doesn't address a real problem. It addresses a fictional one.

  19. #9879
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Do you also think band aids stop the bleeding of gunshots?
    Ad hominem attacks don't solve anything. Also: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Not_as_bad_as

  20. #9880
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    Ad hominem attacks don't solve anything. Also: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Not_as_bad_as
    It's not an attack. It's a comparison. But it was snarky, I'll give you that.

    Fact is that more illegal aliens enter legally.
    Fact is most Americans don't want a wall.
    Fact is Trump said Mexico would pay and they're not.
    Fact is the wall will be costly to build and maintain and won't solve the problem.

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