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Thread: General Political Thread: News, Slander & Debate

  1. #9981
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    You can keep talking like you know what the barrier situation is. The source you listed even disagreed with you. I'll listen to the last two Presidents of the National Border Patrol Council and the need for a wall both to replace inferior structures and to fill in the gaps where it is needed.
    LOL, no it doesn't but OK.
    And preventing people from overstaying their Visas is a separate problem from preventing people from illegally entering, no matter how much you want to pretend they are the same.
    Yes, one is big (overstaying) and one is small (illegal crossings).

    But I'm done arguing this. Completely pointless.

  2. #9982
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puck Head View Post
    I was under the assumption that 41-44% of all illegals this year are currently the result of explores visas.
    Fact is that illegal immigration is way down. Arrests at the southern border peaked at 1.7 million in 2000, and latest numbers are at 400k.

    To me it’s economics.
    When the housing and agricultural markets explode, they come here to work. When our market reacts, illegal immigrants go home. Also factor in you can see a direct relation in regards to the Mexican economy.

    How about we focus on fixing the problem, rather than investment on “dealing” with he problem


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    I think one of the main issues right now is having so many cities that are fighting ICE from getting illegal immigrants. Too many people are complaining about ICE, and then when the wall is brought up, they complain about that. Me, I don't think a wall is going to be that much more effective. IMO, we need to let ICE do their jobs without blocking them or making their jobs harder. There are plenty of people who come here the correct way, and it takes them al to of time and money to get here. Fix that as well. Right now, if an immigrant marries to an American and lives here, and they want to bring over their mother and father to live here as well, it takes about 9 years with the visa process, that is way too long. Thats why so many people stay on their expired visas.

  3. #9983
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    Judges matter so much more to this matter than a wall.
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  4. #9984
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    Trade a lefty judge replacing RBG for The Wall.

  5. #9985
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunny View Post
    Trade a lefty judge replacing RBG for The Wall.
    Innovative idea. That may be trading his re-election chances.
    In 1994 I thought I could die in peace...now I'm hungry again.

  6. #9986
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puck Head View Post
    Arrests at the southern border peaked at 1.7 million in 2000, and latest numbers are at 400k.

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    Four hundred THOUSAND arrested. How many got thru??? That's the point we CAN'T know. Until they're caught. Half a million illegals is enough for me for better border security.

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    'Fixing" the Wall issue is like turning on an air conditioner in a heat wave. Sure, you get relief from some of the heat but the rest of that heat wave is coming one way or another. Our immigration policy and process needs changing. Your not stemming the tide of drugs with a wall. Your not stopping criminal action with a wall. iIf it was that simple, build a wall around Albany! (And a second one around Washington - those are 2 places where real crimes are being committed by historically related immigrants wearing nice suits & dresses.) IMO, building the Wall is just a band aid on a train/plane/car wreck.

    The social contract that if you work you get paid should never be a worry for a government worker, not in America. Sleazy real estate developer? Even people are just "assets or asses" to be used up like so much concrete. Shameful. I would never, ever not consider paying someone who has done work for me.
    Last edited by 4EverRangerFrank; 01-11-2019 at 03:16 PM.

  8. #9988
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    inferior structures and to fill in the gaps where it is needed.
    The miles of "barrier" areas that are "inaccessible by car" are easily CLIMBED over. Don't make me go find it again but it is in a report.

  9. #9989
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY Chief View Post
    Four hundred THOUSAND arrested. How many got thru??? That's the point we CAN'T know. Until they're caught. Half a million illegals is enough for me for better border security.
    Ya kinda missed a few larger points.


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  10. #9990
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puck Head View Post
    Ya kinda missed a few larger points.


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    I was addressing THAT one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NY Chief View Post
    Obama called it a crisis in 2014. (Pick any source from the google listing). And the only defense is that "whataboutism" BS again

    https://www.bing.com/search?q=obama+...73cf5e23250887
    So I picked an article, to be as judicious as I could be, I went with one from Fox News. That article complained about what words were being used to discuss the situation at the Southern Border. I guess that was the pressing issue for them.

    That Fox News article linked to a contemporaneous ABC news article and this is what I found. Obama's response was to ask Congress for $3.7B in funding to provide shelter and food for the mostly women and children, legal services, and an increase in Homeland Security budget to handle the influx.

    So is your point that when dealing with similar situations, Obama's response was to try to provide aid and comfort to those in crisis and Trump's is to put a wall in front of them so we don't have to help them? If it is, I think we're in agreement.
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  12. #9992
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    Here's more on the border wall from Fox News:

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tru...at-the-numbers

    A Department of Homeland Security report estimated that 170,000 people successfully entered the U.S. illegally from the southern border in 2015. That number is significantly less than the 1.7 million people estimated to have entered in 2005.
    There were approximately 5.6 million "unauthorized immigrants" from Mexico by 2016, according to data from the Pew Research Center. That number has decreased from 6.4 million in 2009.
    Frisbeetarianism is the belief that when you die, your soul goes up on the roof and gets stuck. George Carlin

  13. #9993
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    Poll: Majority of GOP say shutdown is 'embarrassing for the country'

    A majority of Republicans in a new survey say the partial government shutdown is "embarrassing for the country."

    The new NPR/Ipsos poll reports that three-quarters of all respondents believe the ongoing shutdown is “embarrassing."
    Trump gave his first prime-time Oval Office address Tuesday night on the issue, though only 10 percent of survey respondents said it brought the country closer to ending the shutdown.

    Nearly 40 percent said they did not watch the address. Only 38 percent call the situation at the border a “crisis,” as Trump did repeatedly during his speech.

    Roughly two-thirds of respondents who identify as Republican said Trump’s speech helped convince them that there is a need for a border wall and that there is a crisis.
    https://thehill.com/policy/finance/4...mpression=true
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  14. #9994
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    Ultimately, what kind of person sees men, women, and children fleeing crime and poverty and their reaction is, "let's put a wall in front of them so they can't get the help they need". And who justifies building that wall by saying that it will dissuade future men, women, and children from seeking help?

    I have to say, none of this sounds very Christianly.
    Frisbeetarianism is the belief that when you die, your soul goes up on the roof and gets stuck. George Carlin

  15. #9995
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanJesus View Post
    Here's more on the border wall from Fox News:

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tru...at-the-numbers
    Just because the numbers have declined doesn't mean that it is no longer a problem. 200,000 illegal immigrants a year is something like 500 people per day making their way across. And likely not all Mexicans. How many travel to Mexico to get in via that border? It's still a big problem, just not as disastrous as it once was.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    Everyone should be embarrassed by the shutdown. Each side just has a different reason why they are embarrassed about it.

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    BUT WAIT!!!! NOBODY is coming across that vast wasteland of the Rio Grande Valley!!!

    "Obama visits Texas this week for a couple of Democratic fundraisers. He will not visit the Rio Grande Valley, where most of the children are entering the country."

    https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...gration-crisis

  18. #9998
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanJesus View Post
    Ultimately, what kind of person sees men, women, and children fleeing crime and poverty and their reaction is, "let's put a wall in front of them so they can't get the help they need". And who justifies building that wall by saying that it will dissuade future men, women, and children from seeking help?

    I have to say, none of this sounds very Christianly.

    Teach me how to be a good person

  19. #9999
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanJesus View Post
    So I picked an article, to be as judicious as I could be, I went with one from Fox News. That article complained about what words were being used to discuss the situation at the Southern Border. I guess that was the pressing issue for them.

    That Fox News article linked to a contemporaneous ABC news article and this is what I found. Obama's response was to ask Congress for $3.7B in funding to provide shelter and food for the mostly women and children, legal services, and an increase in Homeland Security budget to handle the influx.

    So is your point that when dealing with similar situations, Obama's response was to try to provide aid and comfort to those in crisis and Trump's is to put a wall in front of them so we don't have to help them? If it is, I think we're in agreement.


    Kudos for trying Fox but they're just as F'd up as the other side. But I get your point that Obama's request was to "save the children" but you left out the part about also increasing border security in that request. (His idea was prob to post a STOP sign but that's conjecture)…. from one article I read "House Speaker John Boehner said the U.S. should have two goals in dealing with the situation.

    "Our priorities are clear: Take care of these children, return them safely home, to their home countries, to their families, and secure the border," he said...

    https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...ration-request

    And if there was a wall in the first place would there have been that crisis????
    Last edited by NY Chief; 01-11-2019 at 05:10 PM.

  20. #10000
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    Just because the numbers have declined doesn't mean that it is no longer a problem. 200,000 illegal immigrants a year is something like 500 people per day making their way across. And likely not all Mexicans. How many travel to Mexico to get in via that border? It's still a big problem, just not as disastrous as it once was.
    Why? This is a legitimate question. What, exactly, is the problem with illegal immigrations? They don't qualify for any government assistance programs given a lack of citizenship/social security card, work low-paying jobs Americans don't want to work themselves, and are statistically less likely to commit crime than natural citizens.

    Why is it a "big problem"?
    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If you’re a good loser, you’re a loser."
    - John Tortorella


    "Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence."
    - Christopher Hitchens

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