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Thread: General Political Thread: News, Slander & Debate

  1. #9881
    Senior Member Squirt Division NY Chief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    It's not an attack. It's a comparison. But it was snarky, I'll give you that.

    Fact is that more illegal aliens enter legally.
    Fact is most Americans don't want a wall.
    Fact is Trump said Mexico would pay and they're not.
    Fact is the wall will be costly to build and maintain and won't solve the problem.
    Fact is that more illegal aliens enter legally. No one knows the real numbers.
    Fact is most Americans don't want a wall. Depends on who's biased polls you believe.
    Fact is Trump said Mexico would pay and they're not. Many never believed he would get them to pay, nor really cared. So he lied like "you can keep your doctor and pay less"
    Fact is the wall will be costly to build and maintain and won't solve the problem. It WILL solve SOME of the problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NY Chief View Post
    Fact is that more illegal aliens enter legally. No one knows the real numbers.
    So then you agree the problem is fiction.
    Fact is most Americans don't want a wall. Depends on who's biased polls you believe.
    Let's put aside that some people use the term "biased" to just ignore facts that are presented to them...Even among Republicans, a wall is not high on the list of priorities, certainly not enough to shut down gov't. (Please actually read the link)
    Fact is Trump said Mexico would pay and they're not. Many never believed he would get them to pay, nor really cared.
    Please support this statement with some facts, links, data of any kind.
    So he lied like "you can keep your doctor and pay less"
    Whataboutism, and if you don't like that word...https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Not_as_bad_as
    Fact is the wall will be costly to build and maintain and won't solve the problem. It WILL solve SOME of the problem.
    And a band-aid solves SOME of the problems of gunshot victims. Just not the real ones.

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    Do people seriously want a freakin' wall across the whole fuckin border?

    From my POV (which is far away) this is so funny. Trump got ya'll mad af. A freakin' wall to keep people out? Is it supposed to be 50 feet tall or something? If not there's something called ladders.

    And the cost, holy shit. "Contractors were awarded between $300,000 and $500,000 for each prototype" and the prototypes was like 10 feet wide.

    https://metro.co.uk/2018/01/19/heigh...nfirm-7243438/ (someone help me with the link/quote if I fucked it up).

  4. #9884
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc View Post
    Do people seriously want a freakin' wall across the whole fuckin border?

    From my POV (which is far away) this is so funny. Trump got ya'll mad af. A freakin' wall to keep people out? Is it supposed to be 50 feet tall or something? If not there's something called ladders.

    And the cost, holy shit. "Contractors were awarded between $300,000 and $500,000 for each prototype" and the prototypes was like 10 feet wide.

    https://metro.co.uk/2018/01/19/heigh...nfirm-7243438/ (someone help me with the link/quote if I fucked it up).
    To be fair... Not the ENTIRE border. But that doesn't make it any less stupid.

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    While I agree with others and will not watch Ďlive,í itís because I want the ratings to reflect our popular dissent - not because I donít want to hear the message verbatim. IF we can negatively impact the ratings, thatís real. Advertisers will feel it too. #BoycottTrumpPrimeTime

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    Iíll catch the recap on twitter
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    Let's Go Rangers!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4EverRangerFrank View Post
    While I agree with others and will not watch Ďlive,í itís because I want the ratings to reflect our popular dissent - not because I donít want to hear the message verbatim. IF we can negatively impact the ratings, thatís real. Advertisers will feel it too. #BoycottTrumpPrimeTime
    Truth be told...NYR are on at 10 and in light of recent game results Iíll need at least a hour of serious pre-gaming. LOL

  8. #9888
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    So then you agree the problem is fiction.
    Let's put aside that some people use the term "biased" to just ignore facts that are presented to them...Even among Republicans, a wall is not high on the list of priorities, certainly not enough to shut down gov't. (Please actually read the link)
    Please support this statement with some facts, links, data of any kind.
    Whataboutism, and if you don't like that word...https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Not_as_bad_as
    And a band-aid solves SOME of the problems of gunshot victims. Just not the real ones.
    I wish I had the time to format quote responses so professionally. Some of you guys must have a dozen assistants.

    That said, I'll go old fashioned cut and paste....

    1. So then you agree the problem is fiction. - NO. We know there already is a big problem with the huge number publicly acknowledged. We DON'T how many MORE. Kinda stupid to say we know exactly how many people are trying to avoid BEING detected.

    2. Let's put aside that some people use the term "biased" to just ignore facts that are presented to them...Even among Republicans, a wall is not high on the list of priorities, certainly not enough to shut down gov't. (Please actually read the link) - Both sides have the propaganda, yes BIASED arms. I call bullshit on both sides and don't take ANY verbatim. Politicfact leans left to anybody who'll admit it.

    3. Please support this statement with some facts, links, data of any kind. - Please provide facts disputing it. Really??????

    4. Whataboutism - Just stop with that already. The left was all about that when Bush was in office. And more importantly - "those that fail to learn from history will make the same mistakes"

    5.And a band-aid solves SOME of the problems of gunshot victims. Just not the real ones. - As opposed to the gun grabber mentality "If confiscating ALL guns saves just ONE additional life". Cant' have it both ways.

  9. #9889
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY Chief View Post

    5.And a band-aid solves SOME of the problems of gunshot victims. Just not the real ones. - As opposed to the gun grabber mentality "If confiscating ALL guns saves just ONE additional life". Cant' have it both ways.
    Interesting point.
    Iíd say that the hypocrisy runs on both sides in regards to this.



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    This is a fantastic read on the networks' decision to air Trumps's Oval Office address tonight:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...urTa_C0oUPm6aE
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    This is a fantastic read on the networks' decision to air Trumps's Oval Office address tonight:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...urTa_C0oUPm6aE
    u serious, phil? this is such a terrible article. I just don't get how a rational person, like I thought u were, could buy into this crap. im beginning to think that you're a left wing nut like this guy.lol
    Last edited by CCCP; 01-08-2019 at 03:45 PM.

  12. #9892
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCCP View Post
    u serious, phil? this is such a terrible article. I just don't get how a rational person, like I thought u were, could buy into this crap. im beginning to think that you're a left wing nut like this guy.lol
    What, exactly, is terrible about it?
    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If youíre a good loser, youíre a loser."
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    "Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence."
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  13. #9893
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    What, exactly, is terrible about it?
    well...a couple, among numerous other things, the author accuses trump of lying in his speech before he even gives the speech. second thing I noticed, he excuses all presidents before Trump for lying, but not Trump because Trump lies about everything. Another thing, he asks the networks to differentiate between news and entertainment but does he ever turn on CNN, MSNBC, FOX News? it is all entertainment. and shaming the major network for wanting to carry Trump's speech because they didn't carry Obama's speech on border security is just pathetic. A pathetic article from a pathetic human being im sure

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    Quote Originally Posted by CCCP View Post
    well...a couple, among numerous other things, the author accuses trump of lying in his speech before he even gives the speech.
    Yes. Based on his (un)healthy track record of lying incessantly. Daniel Dale, of the Toronto Star, clocked him at more than 100 lies per week.

    second thing I noticed, he excuses all presidents before Trump for lying, but not Trump because Trump lies about everything.
    No, he noted early on that all Presidents tell normal lies. I took that to mean ones interwoven into larger issues or policies to avoid distracting details, or that might bog down the progress of a bill or a law or some specific practice that would otherwise pass. "If you like your doctor," for example. Which stands in stark contrast to "and Mexico's gonna pay for it," "we had the exact same policy as the Obama administration," or "The Democrats want to invite caravan after caravan of illegal aliens into our country. And they want to sign them up for free health care, free welfare, free education, and for the right to vote."

    In fact, here. I hope you've got a lot of free time this afternoon: https://www.politifact.com/personali...yruling/false/

    Another thing, he asks the networks to differentiate between news and entertainment but does he ever turn on CNN, MSNBC, FOX News? it is all entertainment. and shaming the major network for wanting to carry Trump's speech because they didn't carry Obama's speech on border security is just pathetic.
    Yeah, given he directed his remarks at the media and not a specific media entity, I'm pretty sure he was talking about all of them. His point being that it shouldn't be entertainment. It should be news. And that largely starts by not cutting to every inane remark or buffoonish falsehood Trump tweets every evening.

    --

    Related: if you guys are curious about how to break up a quote to answer another member in larger chunks, simply reply to the post and manually QUOTE out each chunk.

    Example:

    HTML Code:
    [QUOTE=CCCP;952308]well...a couple, among numerous other things, the author accuses trump of lying in his speech before he even gives the speech.[/QUOTE]
    
    Yes. Based on his (un)healthy track record of lying incessantly. Daniel Dale, of the [I]Toronto Star[/I], clocked him at [URL="https://www.thestar.com/news/world/analysis/2018/10/11/donald-trump-just-had-his-second-most-dishonest-week-in-office-129-false-claims.html"]more than 100 lies per week[/URL].
    
    [QUOTE]second thing I noticed, he excuses all presidents before Trump for lying, but not Trump because Trump lies about everything.[/QUOTE]
    
    No, he noted early on that all Presidents tell [I]normal[/I] lies. I took that to mean ones interwoven into larger issues or policies to avoid distracting details, or that might bog down the progress of a bill or a law or some specific practice that would otherwise pass. "If you like your doctor," for example. Which stands in stark contrast to "and Mexico's gonna pay for it," "we had the exact same policy as the Obama administration," or "The Democrats want to invite caravan after caravan of illegal aliens into our country. And they want to sign them up for free health care, free welfare, free education, and for the right to vote."
    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If youíre a good loser, youíre a loser."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    Yes. Based on his (un)healthy track record of lying incessantly. Daniel Dale, of the Toronto Star, clocked him at [URL="https://www.thestar.com/news/world/analysis/2018/10/11/donald-trump-just-had-his-second-most-dishonest-week-in-office-129-false-claims.html"]more than 100 lies per week
    so what? he still accuses him of lying before trump even says a word in his speech. you don't find it funny? and by funny I mean not someone who should be quoted.

    No, he noted early on that all Presidents tell normal lies. I took that to mean ones interwoven into larger issues or policies to avoid distracting details, or that might bog down the progress of a bill or a law or some specific practice that would otherwise pass. "If you like your doctor," for example. Which stands in stark contrast to "and Mexico's gonna pay for it," "we had the exact same policy as the Obama administration," or "The Democrats want to invite caravan after caravan of illegal aliens into our country. And they want to sign them up for free health care, free welfare, free education, and for the right to vote."
    He normalizes lying from other people but not trump. basically he's saying it was ok for Clinton to lie about getting a blowjob. but trump said Mexico will build the wall...wooohooo..lets hang the man!! come on!

    In fact, here. I hope you've got a lot of free time this afternoon: https://www.politifact.com/personali...yruling/false/



    Yeah, given he directed his remarks at the media and not a specific media entity, I'm pretty sure he was talking about all of them. His point being that it shouldn't be entertainment. It should be news. And that largely starts by not cutting to every inane remark or buffoonish falsehood Trump tweets every evening.
    he wants news networks to report news and not go for ratings, he should write a different article about it and not tie Trump into everything. BTW, a president giving a speech is news, no? even if he's the worst president ever or best..lol

    --

    Related: if you guys are curious about how to break up a quote to answer another member in larger chunks, simply reply to the post and manually QUOTE out each chunk.

    Example:

    HTML Code:
    Yes. Based on his (un)healthy track record of lying incessantly. Daniel Dale, of the [I]Toronto Star[/I], clocked him at [URL="https://www.thestar.com/news/world/analysis/2018/10/11/donald-trump-just-had-his-second-most-dishonest-week-in-office-129-false-claims.html"]more than 100 lies per week[/URL].
    
    
    
    No, he noted early on that all Presidents tell [I]normal[/I] lies. I took that to mean ones interwoven into larger issues or policies to avoid distracting details, or that might bog down the progress of a bill or a law or some specific practice that would otherwise pass. "If you like your doctor," for example. Which stands in stark contrast to "and Mexico's gonna pay for it," "we had the exact same policy as the Obama administration," or "The Democrats want to invite caravan after caravan of illegal aliens into our country. And they want to sign them up for free health care, free welfare, free education, and for the right to vote."
    [/QUOTE]

    thanks. just tried it, lets see if it worked for me

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    alright!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by CCCP View Post
    so what? he still accuses him of lying before trump even says a word in his speech. you don't find it funny? and by funny I mean not someone who should be quoted.
    No, I find it appropriate given the rate at which Trump actually lies. It's like the boy who cried wolf. What I find funny is crying foul of prejudice and prejudgement regarding Donald "when Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best," Trump.

    I would actually argue that suggesting he won't lie through his teeth througout the entire address would be a bigger, well, lie. There's no standard of evidnece to suggest otherwise. He's pathological.

    He normalizes lying from other people but not trump. basically he's saying it was ok for Clinton to lie about getting a blowjob. but trump said Mexico will build the wall...wooohooo..lets hang the man!! come on!
    Again, no. He's not drawing an equivalance on the magnitude of any individual lie. He's highlighting the dramatic difference in frequency. Clinton lied about a blowjob. Trump lies about everything. Every second or third sentence he vomits into a microphone on any given topic is some variation of lie, mistruth, or falsehood. He literally can't get through a single thought without a teaspoon of bullshit. Even when he's speaking about something that's true, he has a seemingly pathological urge to amplify it beyond reason. If he was asked to state "1+1=2," he wouldn't be content with that. It would have to be laced in ancillary nonsense and eye-rolling attempts to take credit like "perhaps the greatest equation of all time," and "you have me to thank for it."

    he wants news networks to report news and not go for ratings, he should write a different article about it and not tie Trump into everything. BTW, a president giving a speech is news, no? even if he's the worst president ever or best..lol
    Sure, which highlights the problem here. It's not an issue of an Oval office address, or of the President of the United States to speak to the American people. It's that Donald Trump, the incessant, pathological liar, is demanding free airtime in which he will undoubtedly lie his ass off about the issues surrounding the government shutdown. He will use that air time to simply sow more discord by blaming Democrats, despite preemptively claiming responsibility, and thumping his chest about how "proud" he'd be to "take up the mantle" of a shutdown, which will get us nowhere.

    Hence the entire argument for fact-checking him in real-time, or offering a counter balance of some kind to not force the American people to accept the word of a pathological liar with no recourse.
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    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/man...am-lawyers-say

    The Associated Press also reported Tuesday that a new court filing in the case indicates Manafort lied about sharing polling data on the 2016 presidential race with Kilimnik, an associate accused of having ties to Russian intelligence.

    The information is in a redacted court filing Tuesday from Manafort's lawyers. The Associated Press was able to view the redacted material because it wasn't properly blacked out.

    According to the filing, prosecutors said Manafort lied to investigators about sharing the data with Kiliminik. Manafort allegedly shared the data while he was working on Donald Trump's Republican campaign.
    Wooooops! Should have taken a few extra swipes with the Sharpie.
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    Gambling site takes big odds on how many times Trump will lie in his national address

    BookMaker, an offshore gambling house that claims 30 years in the business, is laying odds on how many times President Trump will lie when he addresses the nation at 9 p.m.
    “We tend to post these odds for entertainment purposes, however, as a part of a larger trend in interest in political props that we have have been experiencing since the current administration has taken office, we are seeing unexpected volume on such a short term basis,” according to John Lester, who sets odds at the Costa Rica-based gambling site. “We have received over $100,000 in action on this wager in the first 12 hours alone.”
    https://www.nydailynews.com/news/pol...Psd3NwG-XLi88I
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY Chief View Post
    I wish I had the time to format quote responses so professionally. Some of you guys must have a dozen assistants.

    That said, I'll go old fashioned cut and paste....

    1. So then you agree the problem is fiction. - NO. We know there already is a big problem with the huge number publicly acknowledged. We DON'T how many MORE. Kinda stupid to say we know exactly how many people are trying to avoid BEING detected.

    2. Let's put aside that some people use the term "biased" to just ignore facts that are presented to them...Even among Republicans, a wall is not high on the list of priorities, certainly not enough to shut down gov't. (Please actually read the link) - Both sides have the propaganda, yes BIASED arms. I call bullshit on both sides and don't take ANY verbatim. Politicfact leans left to anybody who'll admit it.

    3. Please support this statement with some facts, links, data of any kind. - Please provide facts disputing it. Really??????

    4. Whataboutism - Just stop with that already. The left was all about that when Bush was in office. And more importantly - "those that fail to learn from history will make the same mistakes"

    5.And a band-aid solves SOME of the problems of gunshot victims. Just not the real ones. - As opposed to the gun grabber mentality "If confiscating ALL guns saves just ONE additional life". Cant' have it both ways.
    My reply here will be quicker.

    You don't call bullshit on both sides, at least not here.
    You make a claim you won't support with data.
    You keep up with the whataboutism.

    Really not worth continuing to debate you.

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