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Thread: General Political Thread: News, Slander & Debate

  1. #10121
    Senior Member Squirt Division NY Chief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puck Head View Post
    Oh let’s go there....i have no issues going head to head on issues.
    You are aware of when this program started?
    And would you mind looking into the reasoning as to why is was started?

    Go ahead and research up, I’ll be here.

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    You challenged it. Why don't you go ahead and "school me"?

  2. #10122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    Great. What about Bill Clinton? Did he commit an impeachable offense?
    yup. Proven perjury

  3. #10123
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    I just want to point out the absolute hypocrisy on display here.

    Here's a recap:

    The Dems are pieces of shit because they did A, B and C.
    Trump also did A, B, C along with D, E and F, but it's OK because Dems did it.

    So in short, actions A, B and C are only shitty when one side does it, and D, E and F we'll just look the other way on it because at least it's not the other guy/gal who's in office!

    That's the last 2 weeks of this thread in a nutshell.

    It's OK when it's your guy in office, as long as he's keeping not your guy out of office.

    Let's not even touch the fact that everyone around this guy is going to jail...Again, we'll ignore it.

  4. #10124
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY Chief View Post
    You challenged it. Why don't you go ahead and "school me"?
    You tied the fast and furious to Obama earlier.
    The program started in 2006, three years before Obama took office.
    Never mind the fact the reason it was brought forth was to deal with the amazingly lax gun laws in Arizona with allowed cartels to come over and purchase.

    Those weapons were getting sold either way, the only difference was the DEA attempting to track them. Did you think this was the first time cartels got ahold of American made weapons?


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  5. #10125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puck Head View Post
    You tied the fast and furious to Obama earlier.
    The program started in 2006, three years before Obama took office.
    Never mind the fact the reason it was brought forth was to deal with the amazingly lax gun laws in Arizona with allowed cartels to come over and purchase.

    Those weapons were getting sold either way, the only difference was the DEA attempting to track them. Did you think this was the first time cartels got ahold of American made weapons?

    Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk
    Wide Receiver was in fact run under Bush and to his credit Obumma shut it down. Then turned right around and his admin implemented Fast and Furious and totally botched tracing the guns,

    "Under the previous Operation Wide Receiver, there had been a formal ATF contract with the cooperating gun dealer and efforts were made to involve the ATF Mexico City Office (MCO) and Mexican law enforcement. Under Operation Fast and Furious, at Newell's insistence the cooperating gun dealers did not have contracts with ATF, and MCO and Mexican police were left in the dark.[1] "

    lied about it and got Holder held in contempt of congress!

    How STUPID is gun walking in the first place?????

    Weapons getting sold either way is very disingenuous statement

  6. #10126
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY Chief View Post
    Wide Receiver was in fact run under Bush and to his credit Obumma shut it down. Then turned right around and his admin implemented Fast and Furious and totally botched tracing the guns,
    Last warning. Stop with the partisan name calling.

    http://www.blueshirtsbrotherhood.com...l=1#post953580

    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanJesus View Post
    LISTEN UP ALL:

    Let's stop the party politics stuff and the name calling of politicians. It creates hostility where none needs to be. Go back and read the "Not Good Enough" thread if you're unsure of the standards for this portion of the forum.

    The reason this area of the forum was created and kept was not for back and forth political bickering. It was for intelligent debate on issues of governance and society.

    Time to clean it up or thread bans will follow.

  7. #10127
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    General Political Thread: News, Slander & Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by NY Chief View Post
    yup. Proven perjury
    Indeed. So, to recap:

    Clinton perjured himself. Impeachable offense.

    Trump was implicated by his own lawyer for felony campaign finance violation, is under investigation by the FBI for ties to the Russians who helped get him elected, is under investigation for obstruction of Justice for firing the head of the FBI who was overseeing said investigation when that head refused to "let this go," and has violated the Emoluments Clause since he took office. None of which are impeachable offenses.

    And you expect me to take your cries of bias and impartiality at face value?


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  8. #10128
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    I think I've come to a disappointing realization:

    I think I need a sign that there's hope for the return of intelligent political discourse in the United States. We're too far gone, and it's going to take some sort of miracle to bring us back.

    There are four moves in the entire discourse playbook right now:

    1 - "LOL, can't believe you called (insert 100% reputable news source name) an actual reputable news source"
    2 - "But (insert glib and stupid nickname for a formerly prominent Republican/Democrat) did (insert thing Alex Jones and/or Fox News made a scandal that wasn't)" (I'm trying to be objective here, but I literally can't think of a liberal news source that openly, brazenly, and overtly makes shit up to the extent of the two right-wing sources I named)
    3 - "Not proven yet therefore nothing happened"
    4 - "Proposed by a Republican/Democrat, therefore stupid"

    How on earth are we supposed to intelligently debate things when we can't agree on a common set of facts, can't get past this whataboutism garbage, can't talk about active, real political issues because reasons 1 and 2, and can't debate the merits and drawbacks of thoughts that over half of the USA generally want? There are real, serious issues facing the USA that we have no solution to, and we're reduced to debate about "But Obama did.." and "But Bush did...".

    For a once proud, intelligent, nation - that's pathetic.
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  9. #10129
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    Quote Originally Posted by G1000 View Post
    I think I've come to a disappointing realization:

    I think I need a sign that there's hope for the return of intelligent political discourse in the United States. We're too far gone, and it's going to take some sort of miracle to bring us back.

    There are four moves in the entire discourse playbook right now:

    1 - "LOL, can't believe you called (insert 100% reputable news source name) an actual reputable news source"
    2 - "But (insert glib and stupid nickname for a formerly prominent Republican/Democrat) did (insert thing Alex Jones and/or Fox News made a scandal that wasn't)" (I'm trying to be objective here, but I literally can't think of a liberal news source that openly, brazenly, and overtly makes shit up to the extent of the two right-wing sources I named)
    3 - "Not proven yet therefore nothing happened"
    4 - "Proposed by a Republican/Democrat, therefore stupid"

    How on earth are we supposed to intelligently debate things when we can't agree on a common set of facts, can't get past this whataboutism garbage, can't talk about active, real political issues because reasons 1 and 2, and can't debate the merits and drawbacks of thoughts that over half of the USA generally want? There are real, serious issues facing the USA that we have no solution to, and we're reduced to debate about "But Obama did.." and "But Bush did...".

    For a once proud, intelligent, nation - that's pathetic.
    It's really as simple as be the change you want to see. If enough people do that it can tilt the needle.

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  10. #10130
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    Quote Originally Posted by G1000 View Post
    I think I've come to a disappointing realization:

    I think I need a sign that there's hope for the return of intelligent political discourse in the United States. We're too far gone, and it's going to take some sort of miracle to bring us back.

    There are four moves in the entire discourse playbook right now:

    1 - "LOL, can't believe you called (insert 100% reputable news source name) an actual reputable news source"
    2 - "But (insert glib and stupid nickname for a formerly prominent Republican/Democrat) did (insert thing Alex Jones and/or Fox News made a scandal that wasn't)" (I'm trying to be objective here, but I literally can't think of a liberal news source that openly, brazenly, and overtly makes shit up to the extent of the two right-wing sources I named)
    3 - "Not proven yet therefore nothing happened"
    4 - "Proposed by a Republican/Democrat, therefore stupid"

    How on earth are we supposed to intelligently debate things when we can't agree on a common set of facts, can't get past this whataboutism garbage, can't talk about active, real political issues because reasons 1 and 2, and can't debate the merits and drawbacks of thoughts that over half of the USA generally want? There are real, serious issues facing the USA that we have no solution to, and we're reduced to debate about "But Obama did.." and "But Bush did...".

    For a once proud, intelligent, nation - that's pathetic.
    I'm waiting for folks to start voting in white supremacists because "What about George Washington and Thomas Jefferson? They had slaves!"

  11. #10131
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanJesus View Post
    It's really as simple as be the change you want to see. If enough people do that it can tilt the needle.

    Sent from my [device_name] using http://Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile...ed by Tapatalk
    While I agree with you, it’s a lot harder than it sounds. People are way to into their party to realize that both parties are the problem, unfortunately. I honestly feel we are going to get worse. I don’t think we have seen the scumbaggery that is to come. I hope I’m wrong, but politics has become about the parties and not the people, who it should be about.

  12. #10132
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanJesus View Post
    It's really as simple as be the change you want to see. If enough people do that it can tilt the needle.

    Sent from my [device_name] using http://Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile...ed by Tapatalk
    Which applies beyond the individual to the elected representatives. It's a snowball effect. We've rolled backward down the hill by electing a man who uses schoolyard bully tactics to get his way. We can regain that ground with ease by removing him and putting anyone who acts like an adult in his place.
    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If you’re a good loser, you’re a loser."
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    "Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence."
    - Christopher Hitchens

  13. #10133
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYR2711 View Post
    While I agree with you, it’s a lot harder than it sounds. People are way to into their party to realize that both parties are the problem, unfortunately. I honestly feel we are going to get worse. I don’t think we have seen the scumbaggery that is to come. I hope I’m wrong, but politics has become about the parties and not the people, who it should be about.
    No, they're not. This "both parties" nonsense is like a 2B extension from G1000's list. It wrongfully suggests that the blame is equally weighted when it's not. One party is actively suppressing minority voting rights. Only one party is enabling a rogue President who the FBI believed was acting (wittingly or otherwise) as a Russian agent. Only one party is in favor of throwing 20 million Americans off their healthcare and routinely stands in front of legislation and legislative ideas that would attempt to advance healthcare discussions in this country into this century. Only one party is still spouting dubous concepts like "trickle down economics." Only one party is home to numerous climate science deniers. Only one party is home to open racists and white nationalists. Only one party refuses to even discuss the idea of gun control and the country's larger problem with gun ownership in general. Only one party is constantly threatening the Supreme Court ruling that gave women the right to reproductive autonomy.

    None of this is to say that the other is the party of perfection. It's not. But they are the only viable option standing in check to these things, and to suggest they share equal blame for and across the spectrum of problems the country faces carelessly sweeps too many in the right in with those in the wrong.

    Politics was always about parties. It's always going to be about parties. If the People don't like who represents their party, it's on the People to vote those representatives OUT and to vote in officials who are intelligent, respected, respectful, open to new ideas, not beholden to special interests, believe in demonstrable scientific principles, etc.
    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If you’re a good loser, you’re a loser."
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    "Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence."
    - Christopher Hitchens

  14. #10134
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    Quote Originally Posted by G1000 View Post
    I think I've come to a disappointing realization:

    I think I need a sign that there's hope for the return of intelligent political discourse in the United States. We're too far gone, and it's going to take some sort of miracle to bring us back.

    There are four moves in the entire discourse playbook right now:

    1 - "LOL, can't believe you called (insert 100% reputable news source name) an actual reputable news source"
    2 - "But (insert glib and stupid nickname for a formerly prominent Republican/Democrat) did (insert thing Alex Jones and/or Fox News made a scandal that wasn't)" (I'm trying to be objective here, but I literally can't think of a liberal news source that openly, brazenly, and overtly makes shit up to the extent of the two right-wing sources I named)
    3 - "Not proven yet therefore nothing happened"
    4 - "Proposed by a Republican/Democrat, therefore stupid"

    How on earth are we supposed to intelligently debate things when we can't agree on a common set of facts, can't get past this whataboutism garbage, can't talk about active, real political issues because reasons 1 and 2, and can't debate the merits and drawbacks of thoughts that over half of the USA generally want? There are real, serious issues facing the USA that we have no solution to, and we're reduced to debate about "But Obama did.." and "But Bush did...".

    For a once proud, intelligent, nation - that's pathetic.
    Agree with a lot here, but not that bolded part. That is simply requiring proof to convert theories into facts. I will always require that and use that as a line of defense in any debate.

    As a side note, I do find it comical that the left has been able to drag the Fox News name through the mud so effectively that people would include it with a radical right talking figure like Alex Jones to make a point. And at the same time, they have protected their own slanted news sources from a similar demise.

  15. #10135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    Which applies beyond the individual to the elected representatives. It's a snowball effect. We've rolled backward down the hill by electing a man who uses schoolyard bully tactics to get his way. We can regain that ground with ease by removing him and putting anyone who acts like an adult in his place.
    I don't know how much I believe that. Let's pretend Trump is impeached and out of office tomorrow. Mike Pence would step in and his beliefs are far more right than Donald Trump. And isn't that even worse for Democrats in terms of pushing a progressive agenda?

  16. #10136
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    I'm not sure what's more incredible: that this man has been hired as a lawyer for anyone, let alone the President of the United States, or what he just said on national television:

    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If you’re a good loser, you’re a loser."
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    "Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence."
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  17. #10137
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    I don't know how much I believe that. Let's pretend Trump is impeached and out of office tomorrow. Mike Pence would step in and his beliefs are far more right than Donald Trump. And isn't that even worse for Democrats in terms of pushing a progressive agenda?
    It's not about pushing an agenda. It's about putting anyone who acts with civility back in office for the sake of political, economic, and social balance.

    Maybe Pence is a bridge too far, but if you snapped your fingers like Thanos and swapped Trump for Romeny today, for all we may disagree on on policy or specific acts of legislation, is there anyone — anyone at all — who would be justified in fearing the start of a major military conflict because of a tantrum-style tweet likely sent from a toilet seat at three in the morning?

    Can anyone honestly tell me we'd be hearing about desires that only benefit Russia, like the US leaving NATO? Do you think for a second that the FBI would be opening investigations to look into whether or not the would-be President is acting on behalf of not just a foreign government, but this country's most sworn rival? Do you think every waking hour would be rightfully spent dreading the next tweetstorm lambasting political opponents who are juvenilely assigned demeaning schoolyard bully-style nicknames, and demanding vows of fealty and tests of allegiance to a 72-year-old man who acts like a mentally underdeveloped boy king?
    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If you’re a good loser, you’re a loser."
    - John Tortorella


    "Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence."
    - Christopher Hitchens

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