MTL Draft Controversial Prospect, Logan Mailloux

I can make it clearer for you if you need. Yes "It's OK to say a girl blew you, bit not OK to show it"

 

its exactly apples to apples.

 

like you asked " How's it different than telling a friend a girl blew you?" so im asking you to actually think about the results of what would happened if you did just that.

 

'Its fine to spread a video of you getting a blowjob that the girl didn't know you took is the same as telling your buddies you got a beej' is one of the worst takes ive ever read here

 

Yea, that is a terrible take. It's a terrible take on what I actually said. I'm not sure it's a video, thought it was a still, but even so...You have yet to explain why a video is worse than just telling everyone that the girl blew you. What's worse about it? That's it's visual? What's the real impact? This girl still have to live with the same issue of being slut shamed, embarrassed, ashamed, etc. So I'll ask again why a video is worse than verbally spreading it.

 

Once we establish that, we can talk about if we've ever been with a friend in a bar, who pointed out a cute girl who you hooked up with, and if you told the friend that you hooked up with her. And what those consequences are, for you.

 

The example with my wife wouldn't apply because we're not talking about what would piss her off, we're talking about what's a crime.

 

You can't just keep repeating that it's different without saying why you think it is. I don't think it's very different at all, and I'll I've got from you is "Well if you don't know I'm not telling you." I'm not trying to be a dick here, you're just not answering the question.

Distributing a sexual photo is more severe than lockerroom talk.

 

It's literal evidence of someone engaging in sexual acts.

 

 

You know how I know its different? Because we'd never hear about this kid telling his friends about a blow job.

Talking about a blow job could get you fired. Taking pictures of that blow job without consent, and then showing them to people can get you jail time.

Yea, that is a terrible take. It's a terrible take on what I actually said. I'm not sure it's a video, thought it was a still, but even so...You have yet to explain why a video is worse than just telling everyone that the girl blew you. What's worse about it? That's it's visual? What's the real impact? This girl still have to live with the same issue of being slut shamed, embarrassed, ashamed, etc. So I'll ask again why a video is worse than verbally spreading it.

 

Once we establish that, we can talk about if we've ever been with a friend in a bar, who pointed out a cute girl who you hooked up with, and if you told the friend that you hooked up with her. And what those consequences are, for you.

 

The example with my wife wouldn't apply because we're not talking about what would piss her off, we're talking about what's a crime.

 

You can't just keep repeating that it's different without saying why you think it is. I don't think it's very different at all, and I'll I've got from you is "Well if you don't know I'm not telling you." I'm not trying to be a dick here, you're just not answering the question.

 

the fact that this isn't common sense to you is pathetic, and i am trying to be a dick.

the fact that this isn't common sense to you is pathetic, and i am trying to be a dick.

 

So you can't explain how it's different. Got it.

Distributing a sexual photo is more severe than lockerroom talk.

 

It's literal evidence of someone engaging in sexual acts.

 

 

You know how I know its different? Because we'd never hear about this kid telling his friends about a blow job.

Talking about a blow job could get you fired. Taking pictures of that blow job without consent, and then showing them to people can get you jail time.

 

OK, this makes sense, but what's the impact for the victim? Seems both are the same right? Going back to what I said earlier, this is the 2021 version of locker room talk for an 18 year old.

 

I have no problem making the punishment stiffer. I think what he did was terrible. But no more terrible than bragging about a blowey to all your friends. They both have the same impact.

 

I think some like to think that "just talking about it" is OK, because they used to do that. But they draw the line at photos because they never took those photos, so it becomes more personal defense mechanism than considering the impact to the victim.

OK, this makes sense, but what's the impact for the victim? Seems both are the same right? Going back to what I said earlier, this is the 2021 version of locker room talk for an 18 year old.

 

I have no problem making the punishment stiffer. I think what he did was terrible. But no more terrible than bragging about a blowey to all your friends. They both have the same impact.

 

I think some like to think that "just talking about it" is OK, because they used to do that. But they draw the line at photos because they never took those photos, so it becomes more personal defense mechanism than considering the impact to the victim.

literally the picture is the difference.

 

There is a law against it.

 

It's not a 2021 version of locker room talk - that would be saying you got a blow job.

If she consented to taking, and showing the picture, sure. But she didnt. Making it an illegal act.

Yea, that is a terrible take. It's a terrible take on what I actually said. I'm not sure it's a video, thought it was a still, but even so...You have yet to explain why a video is worse than just telling everyone that the girl blew you. What's worse about it? That's it's visual? What's the real impact? This girl still have to live with the same issue of being slut shamed, embarrassed, ashamed, etc. So I'll ask again why a video is worse than verbally spreading it.

 

Once we establish that, we can talk about if we've ever been with a friend in a bar, who pointed out a cute girl who you hooked up with, and if you told the friend that you hooked up with her. And what those consequences are, for you.

 

The example with my wife wouldn't apply because we're not talking about what would piss her off, we're talking about what's a crime.

 

You can't just keep repeating that it's different without saying why you think it is. I don't think it's very different at all, and I'll I've got from you is "Well if you don't know I'm not telling you." I'm not trying to be a dick here, you're just not answering the question.

 

Because there's actual evidence. You can brag all you want about whatever you want - words are words; this is tangible. It's a weak argument to equate actual physical evidence of an act with hearsay of that act; it's even worse to trivialize the impact that having pictures of your naked body that you didn't know existed passed around without your consent has on a teenager as if it were mere hearsay.

 

You know how you don't throw people in jail on hearsay? Same thing. There's evidence beyond the brag - evidence that exists outside of the victim's consent, that was distributed without her permission or knowledge, and that caused this woman material harm. There is intent, there is malice, there is evidence.

 

The example with your wife actually applies just fine aside from the fact that your wife would probably kick you in the dick so hard she'd effectively castrate you instead of throwing you to the cops.

 

JFC you have me agreeing with Josh here.

OK, this makes sense, but what's the impact for the victim? Seems both are the same right? Going back to what I said earlier, this is the 2021 version of locker room talk for an 18 year old.

 

I have no problem making the punishment stiffer. I think what he did was terrible. But no more terrible than bragging about a blowey to all your friends. They both have the same impact.

 

I think some like to think that "just talking about it" is OK, because they used to do that. But they draw the line at photos because they never took those photos, so it becomes more personal defense mechanism than considering the impact to the victim.

 

I actually didn’t know much about this and thought it was sexual assault based on everyone’s reactions until I just read through today’s posts about it. I gotta agree with you here and the only reason the photos led to possibly more hurt here than the “just talking about it” is because he is an NHL prospect and because it was made into a legal issue.

 

I do feel for the girl, I remember similar things happening back in my high school with nudes being sent around without consent, and it does really fuck with the victims because of the high school setting and everyone knowing everyone. But I also think it is one of those dumb high school things that shouldn’t define a person. And his punishment has been paid with the law already. I think a lot of the reaction to this is just outrage/cancel culture, the need to be angry at something or someone all the time. What he did is NOT okay but it’s been dealt with already. No reason for him to not be drafted and move on to the career in front of him as a better person that knows what he did was wrong and wouldn’t do it again.

 

Also saying this is “basically rape” is beyond baffling and just incredibly insulting to victims of actual rape.

So you can't explain how it's different. Got it.

 

I shouldn't have to.

 

The fact that you can't recognize that taking pictures/videos of another person performing a sexual act, without their consent, and sharing it with other people, again, without their consent, and telling your friends about a sexual encounter you had are not the same thing is one of the most mind-numbingly stupid things I have ever heard and you should be ashamed for even typing that. And again, express this view to any woman you know and see their reaction to it. If this is really how you feel about it, then send your friends a nude photo of your wife since its basically the same as telling your buddies you got a handy.

 

 

edit: to address other points. To act like sharing sexual images/videos taken of people without their consent is just some small thing and not in the same realm as rape/sexual assault is actually what's insulting.

I mean it was fucked up what he did. Period. But this should now be about moving on after he paid his dues. Paid for it in the country he did it in. Plenty of public shame for him for doing it, and for really the rest of his life it will be brought up and hang over his head. It will always come up as a character question mark. There's no good reason to drag it out now and ruin his life about it.

I shouldn't have to.

 

The fact that you can't recognize that taking pictures/videos of another person performing a sexual act, without their consent, and sharing it with other people, again, without their consent, and telling your friends about a sexual encounter you had are not the same thing is one of the most mind-numbingly stupid things I have ever heard and you should be ashamed for even typing that. And again, express this view to any woman you know and see their reaction to it. If this is really how you feel about it, then send your friends a nude photo of your wife since its basically the same as telling your buddies you got a handy.

 

 

edit: to address other points. To act like sharing sexual images/videos taken of people without their consent is just some small thing and not in the same realm as rape/sexual assault is actually what's insulting.

 

Dude rape has to be incredibly violent and painful in nearly all cases. What is being discussed is purely an emotional pain of being embarrassed/shamed, which isn't to be tossed aside, but it's not in the same stratosphere as rape...either by the act or by intentions of the individual.

I shouldn't have to.

 

The fact that you can't recognize that taking pictures/videos of another person performing a sexual act, without their consent, and sharing it with other people, again, without their consent, and telling your friends about a sexual encounter you had are not the same thing is one of the most mind-numbingly stupid things I have ever heard and you should be ashamed for even typing that. And again, express this view to any woman you know and see their reaction to it. If this is really how you feel about it, then send your friends a nude photo of your wife since its basically the same as telling your buddies you got a handy.

 

 

edit: to address other points. To act like sharing sexual images/videos taken of people without their consent is just some small thing and not in the same realm as rape/sexual assault is actually what's insulting.

 

It’s like 5 realms over. I’m not saying the spreading of nude photos without consent is a small deal. But rape/sexual assault is a whole other monster. Not the best analogy but it’s like the difference between having your car broken into while you’re not there, and being violently assaulted and robbed and hospitalized.

Because there's actual evidence. You can brag all you want about whatever you want - words are words; this is tangible. It's a weak argument to equate actual physical evidence of an act with hearsay of that act; it's even worse to trivialize the impact that having pictures of your naked body that you didn't know existed passed around without your consent has on a teenager as if it were mere hearsay.

Just like it's a weak argument to equate actual physical rape with a photo of a consensual act.

 

I'm not trivializing anything. I'm literally the only person here asking about the income of the victim. To anyone paying attention, I'm saying talking about it is just as bad as taking a pic. But there's a strong liklihood that everyone has talked about it, but don't want to admit that it's just as bad from the victim's POV.

You know how you don't throw people in jail on hearsay? Same thing. There's evidence beyond the brag - evidence that exists outside of the victim's consent, that was distributed without her permission or knowledge, and that caused this woman material harm. There is intent, there is malice, there is evidence.

OK, this is a good point.

The example with your wife actually applies just fine aside from the fact that your wife would probably kick you in the dick so hard she'd effectively castrate you instead of throwing you to the cops.

 

JFC you have me agreeing with Josh here.

We're talking about what's a crime, and what's not. And why one is a crime and the other isn't. Not which hurts feelings more.

Maybe he should donate his first year salary to the young lady

that would be one expensive picture

I shouldn't have to.

 

The fact that you can't recognize that taking pictures/videos of another person performing a sexual act, without their consent, and sharing it with other people, again, without their consent, and telling your friends about a sexual encounter you had are not the same thing is one of the most mind-numbingly stupid things I have ever heard and you should be ashamed for even typing that. And again, express this view to any woman you know and see their reaction to it. If this is really how you feel about it, then send your friends a nude photo of your wife since its basically the same as telling your buddies you got a handy.

If you can't handle a conversation around why YOU think A and B are different without saying that someone else's opinion is mind-numbingly stupid when you have yet to offer an explanation of how it's different for the actual victim, then go away and don't have the conversation. I haven't insulted you or your stance once, even when you make senseless comments like "what if it was your wife" nonsense...I can easily voice my opinion on husbands who verbally brag about fucking their wives (since again, it seems like you think that's acceptable, and can't explain why that IS OK but a photo isn't OK...Where's your line is all I'm asking...Some slut shaming is cool, but without photo evidence to support?), but I'm not doing that.

edit: to address other points. To act like sharing sexual images/videos taken of people without their consent is just some small thing and not in the same realm as rape/sexual assault is actually what's insulting.

I agree. Can you point to the post where I said this isn't a big deal?

 

Let me clarify this for you...I don't think any of it is acceptable. TBH. I can sit here and act equally insulted that you think it's OK to talk about women that way, as long as you never snapped a pic. But I'm not. I honestly don't know why you're getting so bent out of shape, you're reacting to what you think I mean and not what I actually said.

If you can't handle a conversation around why YOU think A and B are different without saying that someone else's opinion is mind-numbingly stupid when you have yet to offer an explanation of how it's different for the actual victim, then go away and don't have the conversation. I haven't insulted you or your stance once, even when you make senseless comments like "what if it was your wife" nonsense...I can easily voice my opinion on husbands who verbally brag about fucking their wives (since again, it seems like you think that's acceptable, and can't explain why that IS OK but a photo isn't OK...Where's your line is all I'm asking...Some slut shaming is cool, but without photo evidence to support?), but I'm not doing that.

I agree. Can you point to the post where I said this isn't a big deal?

 

Let me clarify this for you...I don't think any of it is acceptable. TBH. I can sit here and act equally insulted that you think it's OK to talk about women that way, as long as you never snapped a pic. But I'm not. I honestly don't know why you're getting so bent out of shape, you're reacting to what you think I mean and not what I actually said.

 

The points I wrote on the edit weren’t directed towards you. Others have said that. Should have clarified

 

Of course it’s offensive to talk about women like that and talk about hook ups in a degrading fashion but it really shouldn’t have to be explained how the sharing of images and videos taken WITHOUT CONSENT is not the same as talking to your friends about a hook up is absolutely insane. The victim did not give permission to him to take the pictures. She did not give permission to spread them around. Control of her own body and what/who she chooses to share it with was taken from her. It’s insane to me that this isn’t obvious

 

As for points brought up about the violence of rape and how this is different. Coercion for Sex is rape.blackmail for sex is rape. Taking advantage of someone incapacitated due to drugs/booze person for sex is rape. And sharing revenge porn/non consented images is definitely a form of sexual assault

The points I wrote on the edit weren’t directed towards you. Others have said that. Should have clarified

Gotcha.

Of course it’s offensive to talk about women like that and talk about hook ups in a degrading fashion but it really shouldn’t have to be explained how the sharing of images and videos taken WITHOUT CONSENT is not the same as talking to your friends about a hook up is absolutely insane. The victim did not give permission to him to take the pictures. She did not give permission to spread them around. Control of her own body and what/who she chooses to share it with was taken from her. It’s insane to me that this isn’t obvious

I don't know dude. You keep saying it's obvious why it's different, and I've kept saying that the impact to the victim is the same, so seems we're at an impasse. If it's so obvious, why can't you explain it? I'm asking a really simple question...Why is an image of a blowjob different than a graphic verbal portrayal of one. Others have chimed in, one can't be proven, the other can, etc. You still just say it's "insane" and "obvious". Like Einstein said, "If you can't explain it to a six-year old, you don't understand it yourself", and it seems you think I'm dumber than a six year old...so go for it.

As for points brought up about the violence of rape and how this is different. Coercion for Sex is rape.blackmail for sex is rape. Taking advantage of someone incapacitated due to drugs/booze person for sex is rape. And sharing revenge porn/non consented images is definitely a form of sexual assault

You keep taking this places where no one else is. It's like your fighting the fight you want to have and not the one that's in front of you. Sure, you can consider this a form of assault. But if you want to throw a "go ask your wife" out there then I'll throw a "go ask the victim of a violent rape" out there...You can't use one word (assault) for such a big bucket of things. Was this a sexual assault or an assault on her privacy or (maybe)character?

Because the image never goes away. Especially if it makes it onto the internet. There's a reason there are more and more laws passing against revenge porn -- they violate the same norm.

 

 

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Just like it's a weak argument to equate actual physical rape with a photo of a consensual act.

 

I'm not trivializing anything. I'm literally the only person here asking about the income of the victim. To anyone paying attention, I'm saying talking about it is just as bad as taking a pic. But there's a strong liklihood that everyone has talked about it, but don't want to admit that it's just as bad from the victim's POV.

 

Yeah - this isn't rape. It's a sex crime based entirely on a violation of consent and personal boundaries. Folks trying to equate this to rape are out of the realm of reasonable here.

 

That said - I think the difference between "I fucked her" and "here's a picture of me fucking her that she doesn't know I took" is significant, especially since the image was, to my understanding, passed around the group. Keep in mind this isn't someone sending a tasteful nude or what have you. This isn't a little "come hither" titty pic she sent - this is him taking photos without her knowledge and then showing the boys.

 

OK, this is a good point.

 

Framing this behind my computer in giant font.

 

We're talking about what's a crime, and what's not. And why one is a crime and the other isn't. Not which hurts feelings more.

 

In the particular hypothetical, the only difference that made/makes it a crime is police involvement. And that's relevant here - she involved police.

Because the image never goes away. Especially if it makes it onto the internet. There's a reason there are more and more laws passing against revenge porn -- they violate the same norm.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Agreed. Did this make it on the internet?

Agreed. Did this make it on the internet?

 

Unclear, but it was circulated beyond Logan. Heck, it was circulated beyond the victim, which is critical to why this is as problematic as it is.

Dude rape has to be incredibly violent and painful in nearly all cases. What is being discussed is purely an emotional pain of being embarrassed/shamed, which isn't to be tossed aside, but it's not in the same stratosphere as rape...either by the act or by intentions of the individual.

 

Rape means no consent to sexual acts

 

“No means no”

Yeah - this isn't rape. It's a sex crime based entirely on a violation of consent and personal boundaries. Folks trying to equate this to rape are out of the realm of reasonable here.

A sex crime or a crime involving sex? They aren't the same.

 

That said - I think the difference between "I fucked her" and "here's a picture of me fucking her that she doesn't know I took" is significant, especially since the image was, to my understanding, passed around beyond the group. Keep in mind this isn't someone sending a tasteful nude or what have you. This isn't a little "come hither" titty pic she sent - this is him taking photos without her knowledge and then showing the boys.

Significant why? It got passed around on his phone or by text? That matters.

 

I'm still coming back to...talking about it and showing pictures of it are pretty much the same ... But people HERE are normalizing talking about it because they know they did it when they were young and it's challenging their belief system.

 

 

Framing this behind my computer in giant font.

Just tattoo it because it's NEVER happening again.

 

In the particular hypothetical, the only difference that made/makes it a crime is police involvement. And that's relevant here - she involved police.

Heading into "not super relevant to the Convo" a territory, so we can just let this taper off.

 

...

Dude rape has to be incredibly violent and painful in nearly all cases. What is being discussed is purely an emotional pain of being embarrassed/shamed, which isn't to be tossed aside, but it's not in the same stratosphere as rape...either by the act or by intentions of the individual.

Tired

Rape means no consent to sexual acts

 

“No means no”

Wired

 

##

 

That said, I've never seen rmc51 use the word "dude" or post in such a haphazard style ... So I'm guessing there's something up there.