rumor/report: Carp: Expect Rangers to Target Blake Coleman

This is the way. Coleman is a perfect piece to backdrop Kakko and Kravtsov. Goodrow is a perfect backdrop for Chytil. It's time for these three kids to sink or swim a bit. At some point you need to jump. The time to do it is now.

 

Trading Buch and Strome for future assets guarantees capital to adjust as needed or supplement the roster with cheap, young talent as cap space gets tighter.

Maybe Strome but let's be honest... Say what you want about him but trading a 65 to 70 point player for futures because you signed a couple of 30 point players doesn't sound like the right move to me.

Unfortunately it's highly unlikely that you're able to trade them and not take players back in a flat cap League.

 

Maybe Strome but let's be honest... Say what you want about him but trading a 65 to 70 point player for futures because you signed a couple of 30 point players doesn't sound like the right move to me.

That's also a tough ask for Chytil to be a competent second-line center when he hasn't had a particularly great showing as a third-line center.

They’re winning championships with what they did.

Rangers can’t do what Tampa Bay is doing now and expect to win, because they never did the work on the backend

 

Was in AHL:

Cirelli was 3 seasons ago.

Colton this season

Gourde was 4 seasons

Cernak 2 season later ago

Joseph last season

I'm not sure what you're complaint is? Would Kakko and Laff and Fox and Lindgren and Shesterkin all going to the minors for a minute fulfill your need for players to play in the AHL? Two of them already did. Chytil did too. So did Georgiev. Cuylle is there now. Barron spent time there.

I'm not really seeing your point. They've developed (either through draft or trade) more than 50% of the roster. Lightning apparently couldn't develop 3rd liners either, which is why they bought two.

I don't see how trading Strome for draft picks and using Chytil as the 2nd line center improves the team at all.

I still don't see how Chytil fits on the team at all to be honest.

I'm not sure what you're complaint is? Would Kakko and Laff and Fox and Lindgren and Shesterkin all going to the minors for a minute fulfill your need for players to play in the AHL? Two of them already did. Chytil did too. So did Georgiev. Cuylle is there now. Barron spent time there.

 

I'm not really seeing your point. They've developed (either through draft or trade) more than 50% of the roster. Lightning apparently couldn't develop 3rd liners either, which is why they bought two.

Over spending on role players.

Tampa developed the majority of their roster, mostly in the minors. Then added 2 cheap pieces, as pointed out by Phil.

This failed AHL system is requiring them to overspend, which will mean important players and prospects are on the way out. That's fine if you are a contender... the Rangers havent made the playoffs.

Now they are chasing after Tampa's leftovers that are going to demand a ton of money.

I don't see how trading Strome for draft picks and using Chytil as the 2nd line center improves the team at all.

I still don't see how Chytil fits on the team at all to be honest.

I think he's been the odd man out for a while now. . I kinda wish he had a bit more trade value.

Unfortunately it's highly unlikely that you're able to trade them and not take players back in a flat cap League.

 

Maybe Strome but let's be honest... Say what you want about him but trading a 65 to 70 point player for futures because you signed a couple of 30 point players doesn't sound like the right move to me.

Nylander deja vu.

Get rid of what works to overpay to fill holes.

But it's not just Strome, they are going to have to lose someone else due to cap restrictions.

Over spending on role players.

 

Tampa developed the majority of their roster, mostly in the minors. Then added 2 cheap pieces, as pointed out by Phil.

 

This failed AHL system is requiring them to overspend, which will mean important players and prospects are on the way out. That's fine if you are a contender... the Rangers havent made the playoffs.

 

 

Now they are chasing after Tampa's leftovers that are going to demand a ton of money.

Okay but their cheapest players are their most skilled players that they've developed. Who's to say Barron or Cuyelle isn't on the 3rd line next year? Would that not completely undermine what you're talking about? Again, they've developed a fuck ton of players. The fact that they haven't specifically developed 3rd liners, and that's some kind of systematic failure, seems a little dramatic.

They’re winning championships with what they did.

Rangers can’t do what Tampa Bay is doing now and expect to win, because they never did the work on the backend

 

Was in AHL:

Cirelli was 3 seasons ago.

Colton this season

Gourde was 4 seasons

Cernak 2 season later ago

Joseph last season

If you're comparing the teams this way your timeline is way off.

Stamkos and Hedman were drafted in 08 and 09. (Laf and Kakko)

They bought out Lecavalier in 2013 and St. Louis was traded in 2014 (Hey they picked Cirelli with a pick from this trade)

Seems like following the Tampa model they 5 or 6 years to develop depth before Laf and Kakko take over for Panarin and Zib.

Okay but their cheapest players are their most skilled players that they've developed. Who's to say Barron or Cuyelle isn't on the 3rd line next year? Would that not completely undermine what you're talking about? Again, they've developed a fuck ton of players. The fact that they haven't specifically developed 3rd liners, and that's some kind of systematic failure, seems a little dramatic.

that's be great.

Doesn't undermine that its been a total failure for almost a decade.

When criticized for going after former Oilers, Neil Smith famously said, "what do you want me to do, go after former Sharks?" I guess the observation applies to Tampa today.

Speaking of Neil, does anyone remember his "get grit" campaign of 1997, signing Mike Keane and Brian Skrudland? I forget. Can someone help me remember how that worked out?

State of the Rangers before the drafts: GM Chris Drury on adding Barclay Goodrow, Kraken decisions and more https://theathletic.com/2716057/2021/07/19/state-of-the-rangers-before-the-drafts-gm-chris-drury-on-adding-barclay-goodrow-kraken-decisions-and-more/?source=user_shared_article

 

 

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Sather must be pulling the strings. He probably thinks its still '06 and he has to sign Matt Cullen AND Aaron Ward

When criticized for going after former Oilers, Neil Smith famously said, "what do you want me to do, go after former Sharks?" I guess the observation applies to Tampa today.

 

Speaking of Neil, does anyone remember his "get grit" campaign of 1997, signing Mike Keane and Brian Skrudland? I forget. Can someone help me remember how that worked out?

well, the guys discussed in the thread, Tampa got from the Sharks and Devils. Not the same as Messier and Graves.

If you're comparing the teams this way your timeline is way off.

 

Stamkos and Hedman were drafted in 08 and 09. (Laf and Kakko)

 

They bought out Lecavalier in 2013 and St. Louis was traded in 2014 (Hey they picked Cirelli with a pick from this trade)

 

Seems like following the Tampa model they 5 or 6 years to develop depth before Laf and Kakko take over for Panarin and Zib.

Yzerman also took over as GM in 2010.

The Norfolk Admirals were the Lightning affiliate at that time and were barren. What changed?

Firstly, they hired now two-time Stanley Cup-winning coach Jon Cooper to coach the AHL team. Take a look at the 2010-11 Admirals team for Cooper's first season. It's terrible. Radko Gudas is the only notable name aside from an aged and buried Marc-Andre Bergeron. Cooper still coached that shit team to a first-round exit.

The following season 2011-12 was much better for the Admirals. Their recently drafted players like Ondrej Palat and Richard Panik were added along with undrafted signings like Tyler Johnson and Cory Conacher. That team was also supplemented with a number of solid AHL veterans and went on to win the Calder cup that season.

Every season following since the Lightning switched affiliates from Norfolk to Syracuse they've kept adding talent. They had a very strong AHL coach, were coming off a rebuild, and have made an effort to keep their system stocked.

The Rangers never had that focus in Hartford. The teams ran by Schoenfeld and Gernander lacked talent and a system that nurtured anything. The Rangers weren't drafting well enough, Schoenfeld wasn't supplementing with good enough AHLers, and Gernander was some lame fuck living off being a local hero. They didn't even have their own goalie coach until last season. Now that Knoblauch is there at least you have someone with a background of developing talent. Talent hasn't arrived for Hartford as quickly as it did for Cooper in Norfolk. I'd be interested to see how Knoblauch and Hartford perform next season as more prospects actually arrive.

Hartford was for a long time a shit show. The players that also played there weren't very good. The Rangers have had stability in Hartford for two seasons. The Lightning affiliates were fixed a decade ago while that team was rebuilding. Change in Hartford wasn't going to happen overnight.

Unfortunately it's highly unlikely that you're able to trade them and not take players back in a flat cap League.

 

Maybe Strome but let's be honest... Say what you want about him but trading a 65 to 70 point player for futures because you signed a couple of 30 point players doesn't sound like the right move to me.

Blues need to add a winger, are losing Tarasenko (probably), and won't be looking to subtract from their roster if they are to remain competitve.

Ottawa wants Strome, supposedly. While they are stingy about salary, I suspect the idea is that they also want to add and not subtract.

FWIW, if we did sign Coleman, I would shift my stance to trading Buch before Strome.

I know you think I have a personal vendetta against Strome, but it's not true. I'm just not as convinced as some that he cannot be replaced in the lineup, and therefore I don't agree Strome should be signed long term. If we don't sign him long term, I'd rather deal him than watch him walk in a year or go through a deadline where we have to sell him. If the Rangers ultimately choose to keep Strome, it won't ruin my day at all either and it won't ruin their chances of winning in the next 5 years. I just think there's other routes that would improve those chances of winning. Last, but not least, if they trade Chytil to keep Strome for one more year and then let him walk, it is incredibly poor asset management and short sighted.

Okay but their cheapest players are their most skilled players that they've developed. Who's to say Barron or Cuyelle isn't on the 3rd line next year? Would that not completely undermine what you're talking about? Again, they've developed a fuck ton of players. The fact that they haven't specifically developed 3rd liners, and that's some kind of systematic failure, seems a little dramatic.

man if Barron and Cuyelle are on the 3rd line next season I would say the GM has failed miserably and/or the roster has been ravaged with injuries. That seems to be a heck of a leap, what happened in the past is just that but to think all of the sudden now Barron and Cuyelle are everyday 3rd line guys is pipedream stuff in my opinion. I mean there's a whole lot of already counting on breakout seasons from Kakko, Laf and Krav which in itself is hard to believe all are going to excel imo. But I guess anything can happen and all 5 can come through in a true dream like scenario. Hoping for the best.

When criticized for going after former Oilers, Neil Smith famously said, "what do you want me to do, go after former Sharks?" I guess the observation applies to Tampa today.

 

Speaking of Neil, does anyone remember his "get grit" campaign of 1997, signing Mike Keane and Brian Skrudland? I forget. Can someone help me remember how that worked out?

He did that, and let Messier go. And then put all is eggs in the basket of signing Sakic to an offer sheet, which the Avs matched immediately. Always wonder what Gretzky thought about them letting Messier go after only 1 season together. Felt a lot like Smith had the crazy idea the Avs wouldn't match.Signing Gretzky with the Leetch/Messier/Graves/Richter nucleus was pretty much a shot at keeping the 1994 thing going that wound up crashing and burning .

Cuylle has played 18 meaningful hockey games since being drafted. He has considerable development to do before the NHL. He'll have to return to junior next season.

Exactly my point Drew. Offseason makes for some crazy hypotheticals.

Josh- I wish they'd get a bit younger. When you chase what the last guy did, you're years behind. You may use the recipe, but recycling the same ingredients doesnt make a cake.

 

Find the next Coleman or Cizikas.

 

Shayna- Instead of trying to replicate what the Lightning had, when it comes with this price tag, the Rangers should be trying to find “the next” Coleman or Goodrow.

 

 

https://theathletic.com/2717407/2021/07/20/you-cant-have-all-ferraris-barclay-goodrow-can-make-the-rangers-tougher-but-is-he-worth-the-cost/?redirected=1

I don't know if everyone saw the article from Shayna Goldman in the Athletic this morning, but it sort of picked at what a dubious investment Goodrow may be at 3.6 X 6. Having read the last two paragraphs of the article, the only thing that I am convinced of is, that we are being catfished by Shayna or "josh" as everyone around here knows her.

https://theathletic.com/2717407/2021/07/20/you-cant-have-all-ferraris-barclay-goodrow-can-make-the-rangers-tougher-but-is-he-worth-the-cost/?redirected=1

 

I don't know if everyone saw the article from Shayna Goldman in the Athletic this morning, but it sort of picked at what a dubious investment Goodrow may be at 3.6 X 6. Having read the last two paragraphs of the article, the only thing that I am convinced of is, that we are being catfished by Shayna or "josh" as everyone around here knows her.

Josh just doesn't watch games or look at spreadsheets.

Cuylle has played 18 meaningful hockey games since being drafted. He has considerable development to do before the NHL. He'll have to return to junior next season.

Exactly, it's like considering lottery winnings as part of your retirement portfolio. There's a 80% this guy never even plays a game in the NHL, let alone makes a meaningful contribution.