rumor/report: Strickland: Ryan Strome Drawing Trade Interest

Yes and no. Buch is an rfa and likely isn’t getting more than a 2 year. That gives two years for a guy to elevate his game to the point where it’s necessary to trade a Buch before he is a ufa. Strome and ziby are both centers and while they are going to take up cap space, any two top 6 will. I just have a feeling Zib and Strome will be cheaper than Zib and X unless x is Chytil. I’m note sold on him though and I personally think he’s a poor fit here especially at center.

 

 

Those are all strong points and is really are biggest problem. Cap space. However. If we look long term in the concept of around the league, I’m willing to bet a large chunk of teams have this exact problem sans the Ottawa, Buffalo, and Detroits’ of the world. If you want to get rid of Buch to anticipate the future then that’s okay. However, it can’t really be for another contract since it essentially recreates the same problem. That is unless you get a cost controlled diamond in the rough guy signed long term for a bargain which is rarer than my wife staying awake past 9pm. I still believe that next offseason’s flat cap for another year is going to reduce salaries for top ceiling deals even more.

 

I guess my point is that I really don’t want to see us look to replace our top 6 with guys from outside when we have a formidable one now and guys in the wing. If you want to say goodbye to Buch because you believe Kakko is ready in year 3 then I’m all on board. I’m just not on board with obtaining another guy not already here.

When it comes to flat cap i don't know why a lot of players dont actually want 2-3 year deals tops if they have any skill at all, i can understand a decent guy like Goodrow who's aging trying to cash in now but everyone especially the agents should know the cap situation is going to be temporary with the Disney/ESPN/Turner TV deal.

I've seen this argument from Pete, but it doesn't get into the numbers enough. It's not really proof of anything. Fast didn't play the PP, so you can really only compare Strome and Fast's production at even strength.

 

Panarin-Strome-Fast played 454 minutes together at even strength. Panarin-Strome played 744 at even strength. Strome spent 290 more minutes with Panarin. There was only an ES point difference of 10 between Strome and Fast. If the minutes were turned around, I'd bet my house Fast would have had more ES points than Strome.

 

By the way, take a look at Panarin w/o Strome versus Strome w/o Panarin (https://www.naturalstattrick.com/linestats.php?fromseason=20192020&thruseason=20202021&stype=2&sit=ev&score=all&rate=n&team=NYR&vteam=ALL&view=wowy&loc=B&gpfilt=none&fd=2019-10-02&td=2020-04-04&tgp=2000&strict=incl&p1=8478550&p2=8476458&p3=0&p4=0&p5=0).

 

Panarin w/ Strome: 1249 TOI, 50.61 CF %, 87 GF, 52 GA

Panarin w/o Strome: 567 TOI, 49.86 CF%, 45 GF, 25 GA

Strome w/o Panarin: 550 TOI, 44.68 CF%, 29 GF, 34 GA

 

There's no secret chemistry here. The chemistry is Panarin carries Strome.

I've never seen anyone use the argument that "a player is productive in their role"as an excuse to trade them as much as you do. It literally makes no sense at all, but you keep going to the well there. It's impressive.

Fast didn't play the PP because he's not a good offensive player. Strome plays the PP because he is.

This isn't hard. Buch is a good player. But we have other younger cheaper RW ready to take his ice time. Same with Kreider. Good, but we have Laf and Panarin so are you really going to pay these players for 3rd line duty?

There is no on waiting to take Strome's job, unless they trade for a center because Chytil ain't it.

As far as the stats of one without the other, meaningless unless you're looking at who they are playing with when not together. When Panarin isn't with Strome, it's because he's bumped up with Zib. Who's Strome bumped down with?

If the headline is "Player's stats aren't as good without MVP candidate on their line", it's not much of a news story.

This is the bottom line... Strome has done nothing but prove people wrong since he got here. And people don't like being wrong, so they cling to their argument even though the most obvious stats and eye test say otherwise.

And we haven't even covered his leadership qualities... You better hope they get Horvat because you're not getting it with Chytil.

When it comes to flat cap i don't know why a lot of players dont actually want 2-3 year deals tops if they have any skill at all, i can understand a decent guy like Goodrow who's aging trying to cash in now but everyone especially the agents should know the cap situation is going to be temporary with the Disney/ESPN/Turner TV deal.

I've seen this argument from Pete, but it doesn't get into the numbers enough. It's not really proof of anything. Fast didn't play the PP, so you can really only compare Strome and Fast's production at even strength.

 

Panarin-Strome-Fast played 454 minutes together at even strength. Panarin-Strome played 744 at even strength. Strome spent 290 more minutes with Panarin. There was only an ES point difference of 10 between Strome and Fast. If the minutes were turned around, I'd bet my house Fast would have had more ES points than Strome.

 

By the way, take a look at Panarin w/o Strome versus Strome w/o Panarin (https://www.naturalstattrick.com/linestats.php?fromseason=20192020&thruseason=20202021&stype=2&sit=ev&score=all&rate=n&team=NYR&vteam=ALL&view=wowy&loc=B&gpfilt=none&fd=2019-10-02&td=2020-04-04&tgp=2000&strict=incl&p1=8478550&p2=8476458&p3=0&p4=0&p5=0).

 

Panarin w/ Strome: 1249 TOI, 50.61 CF %, 87 GF, 52 GA

Panarin w/o Strome: 567 TOI, 49.86 CF%, 45 GF, 25 GA

Strome w/o Panarin: 550 TOI, 44.68 CF%, 29 GF, 34 GA

 

There's no secret chemistry here. The chemistry is Panarin carries Strome.

Another way to look at this is to check Panarin's G/60 and A/60 during his time in the league (age 24-29).

15/16 1.2 G/60 | 1.9 A/60 (CHI)

16/17 1.2 G/60 | 1.6 A/60 (CHI)

17/18 1.0 G/60 | 2.0 A/60 (CBJ)

18/19 1.1 G/60 | 2.3 A/60 (CBJ)

19/20 1.4 G/60 | 2.7 A/60 (NYR)

20/21 1.2 G/60 | 3.0 A/60 (NYR)

Both metrics indicate a boost in production since joining the Rangers, where his primary center has been Strome at EV and on the PP. So I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the chemistry aspect. It's no shock to say Panarin is the driving force, that's obvious, but he's paired well with Strome and we can't be certain he'd maintain his career high production rates without Strome.

There’s no issues with the individual centers.

The problem is when you look at all of them as a whole, there’s important qualities lacking - that we all seem to be in agreement of needing to address.

Yes and no. Buch is an rfa and likely isn’t getting more than a 2 year. That gives two years for a guy to elevate his game to the point where it’s necessary to trade a Buch before he is a ufa. Strome and ziby are both centers and while they are going to take up cap space, any two top 6 will. I just have a feeling Zib and Strome will be cheaper than Zib and X unless x is Chytil. I’m note sold on him though and I personally think he’s a poor fit here especially at center.

 

 

Those are all strong points and is really are biggest problem. Cap space. However. If we look long term in the concept of around the league, I’m willing to bet a large chunk of teams have this exact problem sans the Ottawa, Buffalo, and Detroits’ of the world. If you want to get rid of Buch to anticipate the future then that’s okay. However, it can’t really be for another contract since it essentially recreates the same problem. That is unless you get a cost controlled diamond in the rough guy signed long term for a bargain which is rarer than my wife staying awake past 9pm. I still believe that next offseason’s flat cap for another year is going to reduce salaries for top ceiling deals even more.

 

I guess my point is that I really don’t want to see us look to replace our top 6 with guys from outside when we have a formidable one now and guys in the wing. If you want to say goodbye to Buch because you believe Kakko is ready in year 3 then I’m all on board. I’m just not on board with obtaining another guy not already here.

I think Buch has choices - every player does to some extent - but if I'm him, I look to get a team to commit to me for 5 years+ if I can. He's 26, he's got his best season yet under his belt, he has one year to UFA, he has arb rights....ball is very, very much in his court.

A lot of this is Buchnevich coming due a year too early and a lack of clarity on the key pieces moving forward. In an ideal world, we figure out Fox and Zibanejad and work backward. I don't know if we're going to be that lucky: I'd guess Fox is waiting to see what Makar gets, and Zib...who knows?

For me - if Buch is going to make anything over 5.5 or so, I'd rather get that value at Center than at RW, since we can probably say with good confidence that we won't be spending more on top 6 RWs than ~6m for the next 2-3 years if we deal Buchnevich (and then the cap goes up). So, if I can move him for a strong 2c, I do it. It's why the Horvat rumor makes a good deal of sense for us (and we can probably work out the sidepieces to make it make sense for Vancouver). That gives us cost certainty at a spot we need it at for at least 2 more seasons, addresses key needs, and moves from a position of strength. I'm sure there are other trade options like that available to pursue too. To your greater point - yeah, our top 6 works, but the writing is starting to show that it won't very soon - and possibly for a while - from a financial perspective.

Another way to look at this is to check Panarin's G/60 and A/60 during his time in the league (age 24-29).

 

15/16 1.2 G/60 | 1.9 A/60 (CHI)

16/17 1.2 G/60 | 1.6 A/60 (CHI)

17/18 1.0 G/60 | 2.0 A/60 (CBJ)

18/19 1.1 G/60 | 2.3 A/60 (CBJ)

19/20 1.4 G/60 | 2.7 A/60 (NYR)

20/21 1.2 G/60 | 3.0 A/60 (NYR)

 

Both metrics indicate a boost in production since joining the Rangers, where his primary center has been Strome at EV and on the PP. So I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the chemistry aspect. It's no shock to say Panarin is the driving force, that's obvious, but he's paired well with Strome and we can't be certain he'd maintain his career high production rates without Strome.

Panarin's assists drastically went up but Strome is not a goal scorer. He had 18 goals in 19/20 and 14 in 20/21. someone else is scoring goals on Panarin's assists.

I think Buch has choices - every player does to some extent - but if I'm him, I look to get a team to commit to me for 5 years+ if I can. He's 26, he's got his best season yet under his belt, he has one year to UFA, he has arb rights....ball is very, very much in his court.

 

A lot of this is Buchnevich coming due a year too early and a lack of clarity on the key pieces moving forward. In an ideal world, we figure out Fox and Zibanejad and work backward. I don't know if we're going to be that lucky: I'd guess Fox is waiting to see what Makar gets, and Zib...who knows?

 

For me - if Buch is going to make anything over 5.5 or so, I'd rather get that value at Center than at RW, since we can probably say with good confidence that we won't be spending more on top 6 RWs than ~6m for the next 2-3 years if we deal Buchnevich (and then the cap goes up). So, if I can move him for a strong 2c, I do it. It's why the Horvat rumor makes a good deal of sense for us (and we can probably work out the sidepieces to make it make sense for Vancouver). That gives us cost certainty at a spot we need it at for at least 2 more seasons, addresses key needs, and moves from a position of strength. I'm sure there are other trade options like that available to pursue too. To your greater point - yeah, our top 6 works, but the writing is starting to show that it won't very soon - and possibly for a while - from a financial perspective.

The more I think about it the more I’m starting to agree with you. It’s just a shame though. Tbh, I think Quinn inflated a few guys value by overuse. Buch is at the top of that list. Playing him in every scenario and basically rolling him in every situation similar to Dubinsky and Torts makes a players value a bit inflated. I don’t, nor will I ever doubtfully, think Buch is a top two way player in this league. Yet his stats somewhat show he is with the SH stats being what they are. Still, it’s easier for me to commit to guys I know have performed here rather than trade for similar stats on other teams hoping it translates here in New York which doesn’t always pan out.

The more I think about it the more I’m starting to agree with you. It’s just a shame though. Tbh, I think Quinn inflated a few guys value by overuse. Buch is at the top of that list. Playing him in every scenario and basically rolling him in every situation similar to Dubinsky and Torts makes a players value a bit inflated. I don’t, nor will I ever doubtfully, think Buch is a top two way player in this league. Yet his stats somewhat show he is with the SH stats being what they are. Still, it’s easier for me to commit to guys I know have performed here rather than trade for similar stats on other teams hoping it translates here in New York which doesn’t always pan out.

I agree wholeheartedly. Quinn was absolutely an imperfect coach, but he may have left us some gifts with his biases. Buchnevich and Strome may never have higher values. Both are top 15 in scoring at their respective positions over the past 2 seasons (yes, seriously) in at least some part because of their usage. Cashing in on that value is just smart asset management, even with guys like these that you genuinely like.

The more I think about it the more I’m starting to agree with you. It’s just a shame though. Tbh, I think Quinn inflated a few guys value by overuse. Buch is at the top of that list. Playing him in every scenario and basically rolling him in every situation similar to Dubinsky and Torts makes a players value a bit inflated. I don’t, nor will I ever doubtfully, think Buch is a top two way player in this league. Yet his stats somewhat show he is with the SH stats being what they are. Still, it’s easier for me to commit to guys I know have performed here rather than trade for similar stats on other teams hoping it translates here in New York which doesn’t always pan out.

I agree wholeheartedly. Quinn was absolutely an imperfect coach, but he may have left us some gifts with his biases. Buchnevich and Strome may never have higher values. Both are top 15 in scoring at their respective positions over the past 2 seasons (yes, seriously) in at least some part because of their usage. Cashing in on that value is just smart asset management, even with guys like these that you genuinely like.

He played the players who played the way he wanted them to play...Agree that Torts did it, as well, but what's different than Dubi (and a little more acceptable) is when the players who are "gifted" the 1st line time/PP 1 time are closer to the 75 point output than the 55 point output.

Why? Even if he never gets more productive than 25-25-50, he's still big and physical. That production just makes him cheaper. With the recent rumors...

 

Laf - Zib - Kakko

Panarin - Horvat - Krav

Tkachuk - Jenner - Kreider

Goodrow - Barron - Rooney

 

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Who would.we be giving up for Tkachuk

Who would.we be giving up for Tkachuk

Well the rumor was they were interested in Strome. Other trade chips include Chytil, #15, and a slew of D prospects.

Well the rumor was they were interested in Strome. Other trade chips include Chytil, #15, and a slew of D prospects.

I find it really hard to envision Chytil being on the team next season. I don't even know how he'd be subtracted or what would be an appropriate deal for him. I just don't know how he sticks around. He's not bad enough to be a throw-in but not good enough to carry a trade.

I've never seen anyone use the argument that "a player is productive in their role"as an excuse to trade them as much as you do. It literally makes no sense at all, but you keep going to the well there. It's impressive.

 

Fast didn't play the PP because he's not a good offensive player. Strome plays the PP because he is.

 

This isn't hard. Buch is a good player. But we have other younger cheaper RW ready to take his ice time. Same with Kreider. Good, but we have Laf and Panarin so are you really going to pay these players for 3rd line duty?

 

There is no on waiting to take Strome's job, unless they trade for a center because Chytil ain't it.

 

As far as the stats of one without the other, meaningless unless you're looking at who they are playing with when not together. When Panarin isn't with Strome, it's because he's bumped up with Zib. Who's Strome bumped down with?

 

If the headline is "Player's stats aren't as good without MVP candidate on their line", it's not much of a news story.

 

This is the bottom line... Strome has done nothing but prove people wrong since he got here. And people don't like being wrong, so they cling to their argument even though the most obvious stats and eye test say otherwise.

 

And we haven't even covered his leadership qualities... You better hope they get Horvat because you're not getting it with Chytil.

The point of the post was to counter the "but Fast didn't do anything with Panarin" argument. That's false according to the data.

Panarin performed at the same rate without Strome as with Strome. That's just what the data says.

Another way to look at this is to check Panarin's G/60 and A/60 during his time in the league (age 24-29).

 

15/16 1.2 G/60 | 1.9 A/60 (CHI)

16/17 1.2 G/60 | 1.6 A/60 (CHI)

17/18 1.0 G/60 | 2.0 A/60 (CBJ)

18/19 1.1 G/60 | 2.3 A/60 (CBJ)

19/20 1.4 G/60 | 2.7 A/60 (NYR)

20/21 1.2 G/60 | 3.0 A/60 (NYR)

 

Both metrics indicate a boost in production since joining the Rangers, where his primary center has been Strome at EV and on the PP. So I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the chemistry aspect. It's no shock to say Panarin is the driving force, that's obvious, but he's paired well with Strome and we can't be certain he'd maintain his career high production rates without Strome.

The link I shared shows Panarin had basically the same rate of production with or without Strome. Personally, I think that says more about him just really wanting to be here in NY and perform. He's been a man on fire since Game 1.

The point of the post was to counter the "but Fast didn't do anything with Panarin" argument. That's false according to the data.

 

Panarin performed at the same rate without Strome as with Strome. That's just what the data says.

Put it this way, if Strome cleaned up every wart in his game that you point out, he'd be the best player in the league and make $11 million dollars.. but all players have warts and that's why they all don't make $11 million dollars.

And of course Panarin production is same without Strome. When he's away from

Strome, he plays with Zib.

That's why Panarin is an MVP candidate making $11+ a year and Strome probably $6.

 

Put it this way, if Strome cleaned up every wart in his game that you point out, he'd be the best player in the league and make $11 million dollars.. but all players have warts and that's why they all don't make $11 million dollars.

 

And of course Panarin production is same without Strome. When he's away from

Strome, he plays with Zib.

Fair enough.

I'm always assuming these rumors aren't what they seem and I wonder if this recent news about Buch and Strome isn't somehow orchestrated by the Rangers to get Buffalo interested in a Strome, Buch, Prospect, 1st package...

I could be way off base but if Buffalo is interested in one or both of these guys, outside pressure from "interested teams" could help a deal get done when the freeze lifts.

Why would we need to drum up interest in those guy, Buffalo has their own scouts, they'll be aware of their value.

I'm not even being snarky and in the "Buffalo is fucked" camp - did they ever actually re-hire a front office after they fired the whole lot of them last season?

Do they, though?

https://www.si.com/hockey/news/did-the-buffalo-sabres-fire-too-many-scouts-too-quickly

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Why would we need to drum up interest in those guy, Buffalo has their own scouts, they'll be aware of their value.

Lol. Wow.

Having interested parties and being high on your own supply are two different things.

I'm not even being snarky and in the "Buffalo is fucked" camp - did they ever actually re-hire a front office after they fired the whole lot of them last season?

Don't mind me, I'm just trying to give him a dose of his own medicine.

I'm always assuming these rumors aren't what they seem and I wonder if this recent news about Buch and Strome isn't somehow orchestrated by the Rangers to get Buffalo interested in a Strome, Buch, Prospect, 1st package...

 

I could be way off base but if Buffalo is interested in one or both of these guys, outside pressure from "interested teams" could help a deal get done when the freeze lifts.

Something like Strome, Buchnevich, Jones, #15 is a hell of a return for Buffalo. Everyone is focused on Buffalo ripping down to the studs, and maybe that's what they wind up doing anyway, but a deal like this I think gets them on the map with plenty of young assets to supplement and improve the roster over the coming seasons. They lose Eichel, but Strome and Buchnevich makes them a better team. Fortunately for them, the Rangers can't afford both Strome and Buchnevich.

Something like Strome, Buchnevich, Jones, #15 is a hell of a return for Buffalo. Everyone is focused on Buffalo ripping down to the studs, and maybe that's what they wind up doing anyway, but a deal like this I think gets them on the map with plenty of young assets to supplement and improve the roster over the coming seasons. They lose Eichel, but Strome and Buchnevich makes them a better team. Fortunately for them, the Rangers can't afford both Strome and Buchnevich.

Nor can they afford Eichel and Zib. So you're going with Eichel and Chytil which is...Broken neck guy and and big question mark.