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2020-21 | EDSR | (E3) Boston Bruins vs. (E4) New York Islanders


Phil

Who wins?  

12 members have voted

  1. 1. Who wins?

    • Bruins in 4
      0
    • Bruins in 5
    • Bruins in 6
    • Bruins in 7
    • Isles in 4
      0
    • Isles in 5
      0
    • Isles in 6
      0
    • Isles in 7


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I've never said that, I've been pretty consistent in wanting to win. Where's the evidence a five year rebuild wins more than a two year re-tool, or is that just a theory?

 

Ultimately, they were forced in to their drawn out view because they handed out a bunch of stupid contracts, and bought out so many of them that they were up against a cap for the entire teardown process, and then, unable to pivot quickly, it lead to a roster construction that looks like it had zero thought put in to it, with none of the connecting pieces to glue it together either available in house, or unaffordable due to their own cap failures.

 

Thus, Gorton was canned.

Yeah, I'm not sure it's that cut and dry. We have a lot of people just posting their opinion and then following it up with "that's why Gorton or Quinn were fired", so I don't really put any stock into that.
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Letter written in February 2018.

 

18-19 season 1 of rebuild.

19-20... Season shortened due to COVID, Rangers make bubble.

20-21...shortened season, no camp, multiple players effected by COVID, injuries, Putin.

 

Rangers fans: THIS IS TAKING TOO LONG!

 

Also Rangers fans: you can totally rebuild in New York! I would be patient and trust the process as long as we came out with a good team on the other side!

 

Yeah I’ve seen you post that elsewhere and it still doesn’t hold much meaning.

Islanders also had their season shortened. Islanders also went through this same season and are playing without their captain, boychuk career ending injury, etc. Islanders also do not have a Panarin or a Adam Fox, or heck, even a Zibanejad. They also had around the same record last year and found a way to grow on that rather than fizzle. What they have is a team. What we have are individuals putti go n the same sweater for pickup.

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Yeah I’ve seen you post that elsewhere and it still doesn’t hold much meaning.

Islanders also had their season shortened. Islanders also went through this same season and are playing without their captain, boychuk career ending injury, etc. Islanders also do not have a Panarin or a Adam Fox, or heck, even a Zibanejad. They also had around the same record last year and found a way to grow on that rather than fizzle. What they have is a team. What we have are individuals putti go n the same sweater for pickup.

You know it doesn't hold much meaning? The Islanders, when compared to the Rangers. Two franchises in completely different stages.

 

To suggest that the Rangers should speed up their rebuild because the Islanders are successful is kind of mind-boggling.

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Yeah I’ve seen you post that elsewhere and it still doesn’t hold much meaning.

Islanders also had their season shortened. Islanders also went through this same season and are playing without their captain, boychuk career ending injury, etc. Islanders also do not have a Panarin or a Adam Fox, or heck, even a Zibanejad. They also had around the same record last year and found a way to grow on that rather than fizzle. What they have is a team. What we have are individuals putti go n the same sweater for pickup.

 

Islanders didn't/don't have half a team of teen or young 20 rookies though.

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Isles have been good like twice in the last 30 years. It’s almost laughable at how little the rivalry has mattered because they’re so bad usually. Rebuilding the rangers, regardless of how you feel it’s going, was the right move.

 

 

 

…. With that said if they win the cup before the rangers I’ll have a total meltdown

 

 

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At the end of the day, the goal is to win a cup. We have to be a franchise that does that more than once every few decades to half centuries. If they win a cup again before us, we return back to the laughing stock of NY. Some of you guys might be too young to remember, but for quite a while there was a time where being a Rangers fan around the NY area was met with laughs because we just never won and it almost never seemed to matter who we had on our roster. We like to poke fun at the Leafs but we were them for a long long time.

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You know it doesn't hold much meaning? The Islanders, when compared to the Rangers. Two franchises in completely different stages.

 

To suggest that the Rangers should speed up their rebuild because the Islanders are successful is kind of mind-boggling.

 

Not speed up the rebuild. Just time to take the next step in it. There's not enough spots for all the kids and they've been a bubble team for 2 years now. It's time, or we will be in perpetual rebuild mode.

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Isles have been good like twice in the last 30 years. It’s almost laughable at how little the rivalry has mattered because they’re so bad usually. Rebuilding the rangers, regardless of how you feel it’s going, was the right move.

 

 

 

…. With that said if they win the cup before the rangers I’ll have a total meltdown

 

 

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As irrelevant as the Isles have mostly been over the past 30 years I will always root for them to lose over any other team. Boston included. They're not the Red Sox(obviously thinking as a Yankee fan too). I sure as shit would want Boston to lose the next round though.

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You know it doesn't hold much meaning? The Islanders, when compared to the Rangers. Two franchises in completely different stages.

 

To suggest that the Rangers should speed up their rebuild because the Islanders are successful is kind of mind-boggling.

 

Nope. That’s not what I’m doing. I’m suggesting to win in today’s nhl doesn’t need a 9 year long process or hoarding every young guy hoping they one day break out to be what we already have. Sometimes it takes a good coach. Sometimes it takes actually deciding on a mix of role players for different looks from your top six and your bottom six.

 

And please spare me this idea of different stages. We have a number one center that is a 40 goal scorer. We have a a LWer that is an MVP candidate. We have a D that is in a Norris conversation. We have an outstanding goalie. We have a number 2 center with the same amount of points as the Islanders top point getter. We have TWO other 20 goal scorers (3 including ziby) and the Islanders have none. We are underachieving. At some point, which I assume is now, there needs to be a realistic look to say our top 6 is our top 6. It’s as good as any in hockey. Let’s keep that together or decide who will step up into it now and have role players take up a bit more of the bottom six instead of trying to send “skill” guys in that bottom 6 as placeholders that will never develop anyway in that role.

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Islanders didn't/don't have half a team of teen or young 20 rookies though.

 

That’s fair but that’s on our management. Rookie coach , bring in no leadership, and have our code of “leaders” not be the type that actually do very much to lead.

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Nope. That’s not what I’m doing. I’m suggesting to win in today’s nhl doesn’t need a 9 year long process or hoarding every young guy hoping they one day break out to be what we already have. Sometimes it takes a good coach. Sometimes it takes actually deciding on a mix of role players for different looks from your top six and your bottom six.

 

And please spare me this idea of different stages. We have a number one center that is a 40 goal scorer. We have a a LWer that is an MVP candidate. We have a D that is in a Norris conversation. We have an outstanding goalie. We have a number 2 center with the same amount of points as the Islanders top point getter. We have TWO other 20 goal scorers (3 including ziby) and the Islanders have none. We are underachieving. At some point, which I assume is now, there needs to be a realistic look to say our top 6 is our top 6. It’s as good as any in hockey. Let’s keep that together or decide who will step up into it now and have role players take up a bit more of the bottom six instead of trying to send “skill” guys in that bottom 6 as placeholders that will never develop anyway in that role.

 

..."9 year process"... It's year 3.

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..."9 year process"... It's year 3.

 

Year 4 since our season is over sooner than many other teams. Think we are winning the cup next year when we don’t even know how to play in a tough regular season game let alone playoff atmosphere?

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Nope. That’s not what I’m doing. I’m suggesting to win in today’s nhl doesn’t need a 9 year long process or hoarding every young guy hoping they one day break out to be what we already have. Sometimes it takes a good coach. Sometimes it takes actually deciding on a mix of role players for different looks from your top six and your bottom six.

 

And please spare me this idea of different stages. We have a number one center that is a 40 goal scorer. We have a a LWer that is an MVP candidate. We have a D that is in a Norris conversation. We have an outstanding goalie. We have a number 2 center with the same amount of points as the Islanders top point getter. We have TWO other 20 goal scorers (3 including ziby) and the Islanders have none. We are underachieving. At some point, which I assume is now, there needs to be a realistic look to say our top 6 is our top 6. It’s as good as any in hockey. Let’s keep that together or decide who will step up into it now and have role players take up a bit more of the bottom six instead of trying to send “skill” guys in that bottom 6 as placeholders that will never develop anyway in that role.

 

We have pieces but not a cohesive roster. Islanders have a system with players with established roles. Compare the Islanders third and fourth lines to the Rangers third and fourth lines. Islanders can channel the Brodeur Devils, roll four lines, and try to wear down their opponent into making mistakes in their defensive end. Ultimately you have to wonder whether the Islanders run out of energy by the end of the playoffs, like Rangers under Torts.

 

Rangers have gone the speed/skill route, and there are holes in our roster where we are waiting for young players to develop.

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Year 4 since our season is over sooner than many other teams. Think we are winning the cup next year when we don’t even know how to play in a tough regular season game let alone playoff atmosphere?
Now we're getting Ticky tack if it's year three or four? Come on. It's been three full seasons since the letter. There's simply no need to discuss math.
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Isles showing their mettle! ( Matt Barzal is a prime example. No quit, ever! ) NYR are hard pressed to show theirs in the regular season, let alone the play-offs. Face reality people, the NYR are miles away from reaching the playing capability that the Isles have shown against a supposedly out-matched opponent. The next game vs. Boston may very well define what the end result will be.
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You know it doesn't hold much meaning? The Islanders, when compared to the Rangers. Two franchises in completely different stages.

 

To suggest that the Rangers should speed up their rebuild because the Islanders are successful is kind of mind-boggling.

 

Bolded is why I don't see any point in comparing the two. The Rangers were completely devoid of any assets after years of playoff runs. They needed to rebuild.

 

It's why I don't get the point of a post like this:

 

Year before Isles hired Trotz and we hired Quinn.

 

 

New York Islanders 82 35 37 10 80

New York Rangers 82 34 39 9 77

 

It completely ignores the directions both teams were headed in. Sure, the Islanders "sucked" but they had just been a playoff team prior to consecutive misses. They weren't completely devoid of talent and playoff ability. Snow was canned because the team was floundering, and they brought Lamoriello in with the purpose of winning soon.

 

If you're Trotz, which team are you picking? The one that has waived the white flag or the one that's trying to compete? Trotz wasn't in the Rangers plans, they wanted a development coach, and he wasn't in theirs. There's no point in rehashing that.

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Nope. That’s not what I’m doing. I’m suggesting to win in today’s nhl doesn’t need a 9 year long process or hoarding every young guy hoping they one day break out to be what we already have. Sometimes it takes a good coach. Sometimes it takes actually deciding on a mix of role players for different looks from your top six and your bottom six.

 

And please spare me this idea of different stages. We have a number one center that is a 40 goal scorer. We have a a LWer that is an MVP candidate. We have a D that is in a Norris conversation. We have an outstanding goalie. We have a number 2 center with the same amount of points as the Islanders top point getter. We have TWO other 20 goal scorers (3 including ziby) and the Islanders have none. We are underachieving. At some point, which I assume is now, there needs to be a realistic look to say our top 6 is our top 6. It’s as good as any in hockey. Let’s keep that together or decide who will step up into it now and have role players take up a bit more of the bottom six instead of trying to send “skill” guys in that bottom 6 as placeholders that will never develop anyway in that role.

 

I mean...

 

The number one center couldn't get over COVID for half the season.

 

The MVP candidate LWer missed three weeks.

 

The Norris candidate D just finished his 2nd season in the league.

 

The outstanding G finished finished his roomie year where he missed 2+ weeks.

 

Then add Miller and Laf were rookies. Kakko in his second year.

 

Kravtsov, Jones, Barron, and Lundkvist/Schneider will be rookies next year.

 

They were without Kreider going into the Isles games. Lost Trouba in the first game and lost Lindgren in the second.

 

The rebuild is progressing well. A new coach is coming, and there will be new faces on at least the 4th line.

 

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I mean...

 

The number one center couldn't get over COVID for half the season.

 

The MVP candidate LWer missed three weeks.

 

The Norris candidate D just finished his 2nd season in the league.

 

The outstanding G finished finished his roomie year where he missed 2+ weeks.

 

Then add Miller and Laf were rookies. Kakko in his second year.

 

Kravtsov, Jones, Barron, and Lundkvist/Schneider will be rookies next year.

 

They were without Kreider going into the Isles games. Lost Trouba in the first game and lost Lindgren in the second.

 

The rebuild is progressing well. A new coach is coming, and there will be new faces on at least the 4th line.

 

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Add to this, the management team that got us to this place with all these successful players just got canned... And they get no credit for assembling this cast.
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Add to this, the management team that got us to this place with all these successful players just got canned... And they get no credit for assembling this cast.

 

Aren't you the first to slam Gorton for having all of the good stuff fall into his lap (Panarin, Fox, Kakko, Lafreniere) while screwing up everything else (bad contracts, Trouba trade, etc.)? So, given that, what place did management get us to that other management couldn't have gotten us to?

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Aren't you the first to slam Gorton for having all of the good stuff fall into his lap (Panarin, Fox, Kakko, Lafreniere) while screwing up everything else (bad contracts, Trouba trade, etc.)? So, given that, what place did management get us to that other management couldn't have gotten us to?
Ask Edmonton or Buffalo. I don't think Gorton is an exceptional GM or should be up for an award but he's certainly not incompetent.

 

I don't think Drury is, but I do think Dolan is and if his reasoning for firing JD was so he could be more heavy handed or get advice from Sather.... Well there's really nothing to be excited about in that scenario.

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Rangers rebuild: Five plus years, innumerable personnel moves, multiple coaches, GMs and team Presidents.

 

Islanders Rebuild: Hire Barry Trotz.

 

Rangers: Gifted Panarin, Fox, LaF and Kakko, and still treading water or at best slowly improving.

 

Islanders: Lose best player for nothing yet immediately improve.

 

Yes, you look at the Islanders roster and it is quite solid line for line, unit for unit and in goal. However, I think (and hope) that they need more in the way of star players or fire power to get them over the hump, and they don't really have the tradeable assets or picks to get it.

 

Carolina is similar to the Islanders. The way Tampa dismantled Carolina's 4-2 lead yesterday was the hockey equivalent of the Dresden fire bombing. Shock and awe.

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Rangers rebuild: Five plus years, innumerable personnel moves, multiple coaches, GMs and team Presidents.

 

Islanders Rebuild: Hire Barry Trotz.

 

Rangers: Gifted Panarin, Fox, LaF and Kakko, and still treading water or at best slowly improving.

 

Islanders: Lose best player for nothing yet immediately improve.

 

Yes, you look at the Islanders roster and it is quite solid line for line, unit for unit and in goal. However, I think (and hope) that they need more in the way of star players or fire power to get them over the hump, and they don't really have the tradeable assets or picks to get it.

 

Carolina is similar to the Islanders. The way Tampa dismantled Carolina's 4-2 lead yesterday was the hockey equivalent of the Dresden fire bombing. Shock and awe.

3+ years. Not 5 plus.
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Rangers rebuild: Five plus years, innumerable personnel moves, multiple coaches, GMs and team Presidents.

 

Islanders Rebuild: Hire Barry Trotz.

 

Rangers: Gifted Panarin, Fox, LaF and Kakko, and still treading water or at best slowly improving.

 

Islanders: Lose best player for nothing yet immediately improve.

 

Yes, you look at the Islanders roster and it is quite solid line for line, unit for unit and in goal. However, I think (and hope) that they need more in the way of star players or fire power to get them over the hump, and they don't really have the tradeable assets or picks to get it.

 

Carolina is similar to the Islanders. The way Tampa dismantled Carolina's 4-2 lead yesterday was the hockey equivalent of the Dresden fire bombing. Shock and awe.

Sure, if you want to skip over the Isles 3 playoff appearances in 11 years or the 9 top 15 picks before Trott was hired.

 

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Now we're getting Ticky tack if it's year three or four? Come on. It's been three full seasons since the letter. There's simply no need to discuss math.

 

Did we win anything this year? It’s not being anything except honest. In our season we have already started year four while teams like the Islanders are still playing in year three to win the cup.

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