Former Rangers on State of the Rebuild: All-in on Talent; Where's the Toughness?

Sure, let's compare Lemiuex to Marchand and Wilson. Marchand scored 29 goals and 69 points in 53 games. Wilson, as much of a fuckhead as he is, scored 13 goals and 33 points in 47 games. Lemiuex, by comparison, scored 4 goals and 11 points in 49 games between two teams.

 

Marchand and Wilson add value to their team in other ways aside from toughness. That's what makes them top tier NHL players. I'm assuming that's Carp's quote? Because it's shallow, just like all of what he writes. No actual thought or analysis behind it. Garbage.

Marchand and Wilson are 1st line players. Rangers traded for Lemieux hoping he'd be that player. He wasn't. They moved on. I mean Lemieux fought when the game was fucking over for God's sake. He was less than effective here - which sucks because they needed him to take a step forward, not back.

Maybe some of that is due to coaching. true. But the player just wasn't impressive.

Sure, let's compare Lemiuex to Marchand and Wilson. Marchand scored 29 goals and 69 points in 53 games. Wilson, as much of a fuckhead as he is, scored 13 goals and 33 points in 47 games. Lemiuex, by comparison, scored 4 goals and 11 points in 49 games between two teams.

 

Marchand and Wilson add value to their team in other ways aside from toughness. That's what makes them top tier NHL players. I'm assuming that's Carp's quote? Because it's shallow, just like all of what he writes. No actual thought or analysis behind it. Garbage.

You've missed the whole point. By the way, Wilson was a 20 point guy for years first. Marchand was a 50 point guy for years first. Would they have been tossed aside before becoming more irreplaceable on the ice? Kinda feels like it. The Rangers didn't hesitate to cut DeAngelo, who had top 5 defenseman point totals in '19-20. Points and production had nothing to do with it. Management seemed to isolate the team from players who bring that kind of game, regardless of production.

Whatever they do I hope they don’t over react to the Wilson incident and we have a 4th line of no name fighters next season who can’t skate or shoot

Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

You've missed the whole point. By the way, Wilson was a 20 point guy for years first. Marchand was a 50 point guy for years first. Would they have been tossed aside before becoming more irreplaceable on the ice? Kinda feels like it. The Rangers didn't hesitate to cut DeAngelo, who had top 5 defenseman point totals in '19-20. Points and production had nothing to do with it. Management seemed to isolate the team from players who bring that kind of game, regardless of production.

No, they isolated the team from players who bring that kind of baggage. We don't have to go down this road again because it's been beaten to death, but from what every beat reporter says the Rangers were bringing in players who have grit this summer. They drafted two of them last draft. Gorton and JD knew these players we necessary.

Again, I'm not saying Lemieux couldn't have been salvaged with a better coach. Maybe he could and maybe the Kings can get something out of him. DeAngeleo on the other hand has nothing to do with coaching considering he's been dumped by 3 teams now

Certainly not going to rehash the Rangers didn't hesitate to cut DeAngelo pov as if there wasn't a reason why.

31 lays out some others reasons why the comparisons of 48 to the other two are apples to hammers.

Anyone itching to read, let me know- I have a few 30 days guest pases left.

Here

You've missed the whole point. By the way, Wilson was a 20 point guy for years first. Marchand was a 50 point guy for years first. Would they have been tossed aside before becoming more irreplaceable on the ice? Kinda feels like it. The Rangers didn't hesitate to cut DeAngelo, who had top 5 defenseman point totals in '19-20. Points and production had nothing to do with it. Management seemed to isolate the team from players who bring that kind of game, regardless of production.

DeAngelo was a much bigger issue with the coaching staff. Wilson's discipline has been "handled" by the NHL. Same with Marchand licking people and the other nonsense he does on the ice. It's not an apples to apples comparison.

Is there anything player C isn't on the fucking money about?

That's me. I said this a month ago.

I see we're beating a dead horse again.

Call me when Wilson or Marchand challenge their own fans to fist fights outside their respective arenas because their politics and inability to put down their Twitter account/phone — shit that has absolutely NOTHING to do with playing hockey, showing progress, frustrations, etc — are a daily problem.

No, they isolated the team from players who bring that kind of baggage. We don't have to go down this road again because it's been beaten to death, but from what every beat reporter says the Rangers were bringing in players who have grit this summer. They drafted two of them last draft. Gorton and JD knew these players we necessary.

 

Again, I'm not saying Lemieux couldn't have been salvaged with a better coach. Maybe he could and maybe the Kings can get something out of him. DeAngeleo on the other hand has nothing to do with coaching considering he's been dumped by 3 teams now

Well that's the point.. Other teams deal with the baggage. Tom Wilson is baggage. He produces. Marchand brings baggage. He's a Boston lifer..

If you all of a sudden want this gritty mentality and swagger, you HAVE TO deal with the things that come with it.

If people bitch about DeAngelo slamming a penalty box door or Lemieux taking a stupid roughing penalty, why would people all of a sudden put up with Tkachuk playing his aggressive and often over the line game? Sam Bennett would get absolutely fucking roasted for that charge/ boarding penalty he took last week.

You deal with this stuff. You take the good with the bad. IMO a players production shouldn't be the end all be all when you are asking for that attitude in a player. It sure helps, but beggars can't be choosers. You can't only put up with this stuff when the player puts up minimum 40 points. Because then you wind up with what the Rangers were this season. Neutered. No edge. Good guys. Panarins career and life possibly ended... Simply because the franchise or the coach wanted no issues or bad media. Aggressive penalties cost players their icetime and then some.

God help Tkachuk if he ever gets here. Half the fans will crucify him for his antics.

You think he's scratched the next game?

Well that's the point.. Other teams deal with the baggage. Tom Wilson is baggage. He produces. Marchand brings baggage. He's a Boston lifer..

 

If you all of a sudden want this gritty mentality and swagger, you HAVE TO deal with the things that come with it.

 

If people bitch about DeAngelo slamming a penalty box door or Lemieux taking a stupid roughing penalty, why would people all of a sudden put up with Tkachuk playing his aggressive and often over the line game? Sam Bennett would get absolutely fucking roasted for that charge/ boarding penalty he took last week.

 

You deal with this stuff. You take the good with the bad. IMO a players production shouldn't be the end all be all when you are asking for that attitude in a player. It sure helps, but beggars can't be choosers. You can't only put up with this stuff when the player puts up minimum 40 points. Because then you wind up with what the Rangers were this season. Neutered. No edge. Good guys. Panarins career and life possibly ended... Simply because the franchise or the coach wanted no issues or bad media. Aggressive penalties cost players their icetime and then some.

 

God help Tkachuk if he ever gets here. Half the fans will crucify him for his antics.

 

 

You think he's scratched the next game?

It's just not worth the effort to discuss this with you again, sorry.

When's the last time Matt Tkachuk publicly joined Parler out of "protest," weeks after declaring he was "done with politics" on the internet, only to make a near-daily effort to publicly "own the libs?"

Asking for an idiot named Tony.

It's just not worth the effort to discuss this with you again, sorry.

What? That gritty players cross the line often and as a team you deal with it?

Ok. ?

Hey Siri, what is the straw that broke the camels back?

"Slamming a penalty box door."

When's the last time Matt Tkachuk publicly joined Parler out of "protest," weeks after declaring he was "done with politics" on the internet, only to make a near-daily effort to publicly "own the libs?"

 

Asking for an idiot named Tony.

This has to do with hockey how? Ohh it doesn't. Your political bias shows right here. It was nothing about his on ice. It was his Parler account. Got it.

You went here. Not me.

Hey Siri, why do some Ranger fans despise Tony DeAngelo?

"Parler and political views"

Correct. Still doesn't change the facts of the case. Your boy wasn't sent to Siberia because he loves Trump. Literally hundreds of NHL players love Trump. He was ghosted because he can't figure out if he wants to be Tony DeAngelo, the hockey player, or Tony DeAngelo, the MAGA Twitter troll and constantly let the latter define his existence.

Odd. Do athletes that support BLM, or other political ventures get waived for their Twitter accounts?

Evander Kane is still in the league isn't he?

So,you're saying he wasn't waived because of his political view. But was waived because he vocally supported Trump...

Ummm

Ok?

Now that that's clear, do you think Lemieux was dealt and handled mostly for his close relationship to DeAngelo? Honestly asking.

Sorry guys, but any synopsis of why this team got as soft as they did includes mentioning Lemieux and DeAngelo for the brand of hockey they played and what they brought to the ice. It's not meant to beat a dead horse where everyone gets triggered about DeAngelo, one way or another.

The idea that you deal with some warts with these kinds of players is the point being made. We all have different lines for what constitutes as "too many warts". Is the line drawn at mockingly challenging a singular troll fan on Twitter, or being a dick to a goalie playing terribly? I don't know. Not for me it isn't. My threshold happens to be greater than that, but I can understand why many feel differently. What I don't think is debateable, however, is a guy like DeAngelo was the best sandpaper and one of the, if not the most, highest emotionally competitve guys on the team without sacrificing talent to play him. They need to replace it. Period.

Odd. Do athletes that support BLM, or other political ventures get waived for their Twitter accounts?

 

Evander Kane is still in the league isn't he?

 

So,you're saying he wasn't waived because of his political view. But was waived because he vocally supported Trump...

 

Ummm

 

Ok?

 

Now that that's clear, do you think Lemieux was dealt and handled mostly for his close relationship to DeAngelo? Honestly asking.

Some could argue this being the reason Colin Kapernick can't get a job. But others would say he just isn't that good of a Quarterback.

I think DeAngelo's history and reputation have been a known problem for a while. Not politically but how he handles himself altogether. Im sure his views in politics were as boisterous in person as they were online and it may have created a toxic environment in the locker room which boiled over and caused turmoil between teammates. Letting anything permeate a locker room that it outside of the team mantra to win a championship can derail a team which is employed to win games and win the ultimate trophy so when a players outside lives start to influence that culture then it is time to move on. This paired with the altercation that occurred post game with Georgiev and his inability to move on after being benched just show that the personality assessment that preceded his arrival here, rang true and action was taken. I think it is a culmination of all of these things which led to his dismissal.

That's me. I said this a month ago.

Yes you did. You weren't alone. Some of us have had plenty of gos around the merry go round lol, but it is refreshing to see legitimate hockey minds speak the same language from their own professional experience.

Is there anything player C isn't on the fucking money about?

Concede Player C is right about a great deal here. And reiterate by every account DeAngelo being dumped had nothing to do with his politics. Yet DeAngelo is a special case of self sabotage by a guy who has spent his whole career being insubordinate by simply not shutting the fuck up. Again; Quinn may be a college coach who did not appreciate DeAngelo's opinion, but he was not the first and probably won't be the last coach to tell Tony D to please shut the fuck up already. And recall when they needed someone to step up vs. the Canes last summer, DeAngelo wasn't the guy then, either. Being an obnoxious loudmouth dickhead is not the same thing as grit and sandpaper.

Odd. Do athletes that support BLM, or other political ventures get waived for their Twitter accounts?

 

Evander Kane is still in the league isn't he?

 

So,you're saying he wasn't waived because of his political view. But was waived because he vocally supported Trump...

 

Ummm

 

Ok?

No, but sometimes they don't get to continue playing the sport they love because they dared to have a voice. Here, take a knee and look left at Colin Kaepernick and right at Eric Reid.

It's astounding to me that we're endlessly fixated on "he liked Trump" and not endlessly fixated on "he was a childish asshole who treated his coaches like utter garbage, showed consistent lack of respect for management, and could not keep his personal shit off the ice"

It's even more astounding to me that we're continually dealing with this endless parade of Rangers fans who want to relitigate this like it's the fucking OJ trial while thinking the latter is acceptable enough to look past it, but think the former is somehow the last straw.

Now that that's clear, do you think Lemieux was dealt and handled mostly for his close relationship to DeAngelo? Honestly asking.

I think Lemieux was dealt because he's not a good hockey player. I'd guess he asked for a trade when he realized that he was perennially stuck in the fourth or fifth wing spot behind significantly better players.

Sorry guys, but any synopsis of why this team got as soft as they did includes mentioning Lemieux and DeAngelo for the brand of hockey they played and what they brought to the ice. It's not meant to beat a dead horse where everyone gets triggered about DeAngelo, one way or another.

 

The idea that you deal with some warts with these kinds of players is the point being made. We all have different lines for what constitutes as "too many warts". Is the line drawn at mockingly challenging a singular troll fan on Twitter, or being a dick to a goalie playing terribly? I don't know. Not for me it isn't. My threshold happens to be greater than that, but I can understand why many feel differently. What I don't think is debateable, however, is a guy like DeAngelo was the best sandpaper and one of the, if not the most, highest emotionally competitve guys on the team without sacrificing talent to play him. They need to replace it. Period.

One could make the argument that not dealing with DeAngelo sooner could have been the difference between firing our entire front office and getting suited up for game 6 against the Caps tomorrow.

All ballbusting aside - you're right to draw a line around "being emotionally competitive" - and it's something we need to bring in. Someone who gets angry enough and commands enough respect to rile up the bench to hit that next level - but not reckless.

Sorry guys, but any synopsis of why this team got as soft as they did includes mentioning Lemieux and DeAngelo for the brand of hockey they played and what they brought to the ice. It's not meant to beat a dead horse where everyone gets triggered about DeAngelo, one way or another.

 

The idea that you deal with some warts with these kinds of players is the point being made. We all have different lines for what constitutes as "too many warts". Is the line drawn at mockingly challenging a singular troll fan on Twitter, or being a dick to a goalie playing terribly? I don't know. Not for me it isn't. My threshold happens to be greater than that, but I can understand why many feel differently. What I don't think is debateable, however, is a guy like DeAngelo was the best sandpaper and one of the, if not the most, highest emotionally competitve guys on the team without sacrificing talent to play him. They need to replace it. Period.

Well said. Thanks for being level headed. I wasn't in my response.