2021 Offseason Thread: Fuck Around & Find Out!

It's not so much that he's blocking Kakko and Kravtsov - neither of whom are obviously better than he is, but both of whom have significant runway - it's that committing to the contract he will likely have earned is going to be untenable and significantly block us from making the moves we probably have to make. Giving Buch his extension at anything over what RNH just got opens some real questions about who plays center and how we can even remotely afford it by 2022. His value will literally never be higher, he's at a position that we have clear options at - it just makes sense.

 

Gotcha, but it still leads to a significant downgrade at the position, and back to Phil's original counterpoint that it will be a hockey trade rather than a futures trade, they would still be getting cap back. I suppose it could be a bit of both (Buch for a 3rd line NOW player on short and affordable contract, along with a pick).

Gotcha, but it still leads to a significant downgrade at the position, and back to Phil's original counterpoint that it will be a hockey trade rather than a futures trade, they would still be getting cap back. I suppose it could be a bit of both (Buch for a 3rd line NOW player on short and affordable contract, along with a pick).

 

I think, given the choice, most of us thinking trading Buchnevich makes sense would probably prefer he stays and Kreider were traded. Buch hasn't got an NMC, he's arb eligible, and he's one year from UFA.

 

As things stand, we've got ~19M tied up in LWs, of which 18M of that is Panarin and Kreider.

We have 3m in RWs - Kakko, Kravtsov, Blackwell

We have 11m in Cs - Zib, Strome, Rooney

We have 15M in D, including three ELCs and Bitteto

We have 3m in Goalies with Shesterkin off the books.

 

Nothing wrong with this. If you want Buchnevich back on a 1 year, 7m deal? I'd call it bad asset management to get that, but sure.

 

Where it gets to be a problem is actually next season. The LW situation doesn't change. The RW situation gets more expensive. G is more expensive. D skyrockets with Fox due a deal, and C is barren. Or Barron, since he's the only one signed.

 

Buchnevich will likely need 6M+ a year to stay with us - if he wants the RNH deal, great, but I doubt that. I need to spend that 6M on centers, because I likely can't keep both Strome and Zib and I have nobody in the system who can step in the role.

 

I can't turn down a team offering a youngish mid-six 6 and a pick, or a more veteran 3c and a high end prospect here. It hits multiple needs.

I think, given the choice, most of us thinking trading Buchnevich makes sense would probably prefer he stays and Kreider were traded. Buch hasn't got an NMC, he's arb eligible, and he's one year from UFA.

 

As things stand, we've got ~19M tied up in LWs, of which 18M of that is Panarin and Kreider.

We have 3m in RWs - Kakko, Kravtsov, Blackwell

We have 11m in Cs - Zib, Strome, Rooney

We have 15M in D, including three ELCs and Bitteto

We have 3m in Goalies with Shesterkin off the books.

 

Nothing wrong with this. If you want Buchnevich back on a 1 year, 7m deal? I'd call it bad asset management to get that, but sure.

 

Where it gets to be a problem is actually next season. The LW situation doesn't change. The RW situation gets more expensive. G is more expensive. D skyrockets with Fox due a deal, and C is barren. Or Barron, since he's the only one signed.

 

Buchnevich will likely need 6M+ a year to stay with us - if he wants the RNH deal, great, but I doubt that. I need to spend that 6M on centers, because I likely can't keep both Strome and Zib and I have nobody in the system who can step in the role.

 

I can't turn down a team offering a youngish mid-six 6 and a pick, or a more veteran 3c and a high end prospect here. It hits multiple needs.

 

Yeah. I would think it will be this, a body for a body with futures compensation to cover the difference, opposed to "upgrading" Buch by way of multiple bodies for one upgraded body...unless a Tkachuk falls into our laps.

OK, sure, I agree, but that still doesn't really justify the idea of selling him for middling picks, and doesn't at all jive with what we all (I think) agree is the plan this year — to end the build part of the rebuild and begin actually competing. How is more picks — even a first-rounder — for Buchnevich "helping" them? That feels very much like a get picks to rebuild move, not a let's see what we can actually do here move.

 

Even if they're entirely resigned to trade Buchnevich, I tend to agree with Brooks — I see him as moving as part of a much larger package that's "imbalanced" in that it brings back fewer players, but unquestionably addresses areas of the team they feel they need to upgrade in order to be more competitive now.

 

This is not a viable offer, but I shared this type of construction with friends off the forum earlier today:

 

Using Eichel as the example target:

 

To BUF: No. 15, Ryan Strome, Pavel Buchnevich, Brett Howden (three bodies, one pick)

To NYR: Jack Eichel, Cody Eakin (two bodies)

 

It's possible, for sure, but there's only so many guys you might package Buch and other players and assets for though, and we don't know if the right guys are available in such a deal. It seems the main reason to move on from Buch is because they won't want to commit the term or $ though. In that case, I don't see how a deal like G mentioned, or a pure futures deal followed by a cheap bottom 6 signing, wouldn't fulfill that goal and be the more likely route should Buch be dealt.

 

By the way, as they turn the corner here to being a contending team, futures come in mighty handy for depth and for trade deadline deals. We have a lot of assets, sure, but I'm not sure you can have too many when competitive teams consistently trade 1st round picks and top prospects to beef up their roster for a run.

I'm not too sure the Rangers will go hunting prospects, 31. But I also wouldn't be against landing more solid assets/prospects. I do agree with the boss though; I think the Rangers are looking to contend now...also considering Dolan just bumped out Gorton and JD because he wants to win again, more sooner than later.

 

To me, Buch seems like the perfect "Sell High" kinda player. I keep hoping they put together something to pry Greenway away from the Wild using Buch as part of the deal.

 

We'll see...

 

Don't get me wrong I love the idea of getting Jordan Greenway, but even Buch straight up for Greenway(forget about Buch as part of a package for him), would be a massive overpay.

It's possible, for sure, but there's only so many guys you might package Buch and other players and assets for though, and we don't know if the right guys are available in such a deal. It seems the main reason to move on from Buch is because they won't want to commit the term or $ though. In that case, I don't see how a deal like G mentioned, or a pure futures deal followed by a cheap bottom 6 signing, wouldn't fulfill that goal and be the more likely route should Buch be dealt.

 

By the way, as they turn the corner here to being a contending team, futures come in mighty handy for depth and for trade deadline deals. We have a lot of assets, sure, but I'm not sure you can have too many when competitive teams consistently trade 1st round picks and top prospects to beef up their roster for a run.

 

That's true, yes. Tampa gave up firsts, for example, for Goodrow and Coleman, so I suppose if you dealt Buch for one, you could later use that pick to get the player you want. But the initial move would be harder to justify IMO, simply because it would be seen as "well, we didn't want to pay him, and had to make room for guys behind him" -- guys who may not even actually accomplish a tenth of what he can.

I think, given the choice, most of us thinking trading Buchnevich makes sense would probably prefer he stays and Kreider were traded. Buch hasn't got an NMC, he's arb eligible, and he's one year from UFA.

 

As things stand, we've got ~19M tied up in LWs, of which 18M of that is Panarin and Kreider.

We have 3m in RWs - Kakko, Kravtsov, Blackwell

We have 11m in Cs - Zib, Strome, Rooney

We have 15M in D, including three ELCs and Bitteto

We have 3m in Goalies with Shesterkin off the books.

 

Nothing wrong with this. If you want Buchnevich back on a 1 year, 7m deal? I'd call it bad asset management to get that, but sure.

 

Where it gets to be a problem is actually next season. The LW situation doesn't change. The RW situation gets more expensive. G is more expensive. D skyrockets with Fox due a deal, and C is barren. Or Barron, since he's the only one signed.

 

Buchnevich will likely need 6M+ a year to stay with us - if he wants the RNH deal, great, but I doubt that. I need to spend that 6M on centers, because I likely can't keep both Strome and Zib and I have nobody in the system who can step in the role.

 

I can't turn down a team offering a youngish mid-six 6 and a pick, or a more veteran 3c and a high end prospect here. It hits multiple needs.

 

What, exactly, is Vancouver doing, and would Horvat + said prospect meet this requirement/pique their interest?

Yeah. I would think it will be this, a body for a body with futures compensation to cover the difference, opposed to "upgrading" Buch by way of multiple bodies for one upgraded body...unless a Tkachuk falls into our laps.

 

Buch is good enough to be a key piece in a deal for a huge name like Eichel or Barkov or Tkachuk, but it's hard to see the "right" name out there.

What, exactly, is Vancouver doing, and would Horvat + said prospect meet this requirement/pique their interest?

 

The requirement is met with Horvat alone, imo, but the bigger question is your first one - nobody knows what Vancouver is doing. Nate Schmidt is reportedly on the block, they've got like 12m in cap space and no contract for Hughes or Pettersson, they've got 3 defenders under contract and are looking to trade one of them, they've got Jimmy Vesey, so who knows?

The requirement is met with Horvat alone, imo, but the bigger question is your first one - nobody knows what Vancouver is doing. Nate Schmidt is reportedly on the block, they've got like 12m in cap space and no contract for Hughes or Pettersson, they've got 3 defenders under contract and are looking to trade one of them, they've got Jimmy Vesey, so who knows?

 

Checks numerous boxes on the "things to get this summer" list. Leadership (current captain), veteran, defensively responsible, under contract for two more years, plays with grit.

As I continue to play, and since I was on the Ritchie topic today, here is what I have today.

One of the things I am really trying to do is spread out the size and physicality. Is a 4th line of Lucic - Howden - Reaves going to do that much? Depth with size, physicality to complement the tremendous skill. What this also does, is stop us from listing lineups with 3 kids in the top 6.

 

Panarin - I'm listing this as the #1 line. It makes figuring out the rest of the lineup easier. Put Kravtsov on this line. I've talked before about how he gets open, always moving to get in shooting spots on the ice, forechecks, etc. I think he'd be a great compliment. Although I am coming around to the idea of trying Barron as a bottom 6 C, with that big body, willingness, tough, etc...one of my biggest issues with him coming to the NHL was that he's a complimentary player. He scored a bunch, but his goals were usually the work of others and he's in a right spot (and willing) to shoot. I'm wondering if he would be a good fit for the Panarin-Strome pair.

 

2nd line - not a fan, but I'm going to have to have one of these lines to prevent me from slotting Kakko, Kravtsov or Chytil on (or as the) 4th line. I still want Lafreniere to have guys that can shoot one-timers on his line. That's where his success will come because he is so deceptive on if he's going to pass or shoot. It really fools defenders and goalies. Simply put, neither Lafreneire or Zibanejad should not be getting top 6 minutes. I added Kreider as he is a lefty shot, works well with ZIbanejad, and adds the size and forechecking to that line.

 

Copp - I traded Buch for Copp. If Howden/Barron isnt our poor man's ROR, Copp is another option. Plus, Jets moved Laine so they do have a top 6 wing slot. Copp brings what we've all been asking for. Unless they'd rather move Lowry. Copp with Kakko is a solid group of all-around players, and Chytil adds that dangerous flair

 

4th - Ritchie's baby. Didnt go with the Nick - Nextel - Brett line though. That line's offensive abilities are very underrated. They all can play solid defensively, and they all have that attitude we want added to this team.

 

 

Panarin - Strome - Kravtsov

Lafreniere - Zibanejad - Kreider

Chytil - Copp - Kakko

N Ritchie - Barron - Blackwell

Howden, Brett Ritchie

 

Trouba - Fox

Miller - Lundkvist

Lindgren - Smith

Jones

Why is howden still on your team?!^

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Why is howden still on your team?!^

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

he's probably the guy I'm most interested in seeing with a new coach.

What if, pretend, you've never seen him play - he's been playing the AHL, whatever. idk, the Rangers just acquired some kid you've never heard of

 

6'2, 200lbs, Center, wore C 2 years and A 1 year in junior hockey, 1st round pick, 9th & 12th in the WHL in points per game in last 2 seasons, 2-way player, just turned 23. Good skater, goes to the net and the corners, can play all 3 forward positions, Draft year was compared to Couturier, "Tyler Toffoli or Brayden Schenn"

 

I think Howden getting away from the "make mistakes faster" mentality will show what he can do with the puck, show a bit more creativity. He's scored some nice goals in front of the net. He also wont forget the good things he learned under Quinn, but maybe slowing down a little bit will help. He's got a long body, and they helps take up a ton of space when you arent sprinting everywhere. He's got enough size to make guys play through him, too. Once these guys learn to take up space and get in the way, they'll be tough to play against. Now, with his 3 seasons of experience, we can see what's really there.

he's probably the guy I'm most interested in seeing with a new coach.

What if, pretend, you've never seen him play - he's been playing the AHL, whatever. idk, the Rangers just acquired some kid you've never heard of

 

6'2, 200lbs, Center, wore C 2 years and A 1 year in junior hockey, 1st round pick, 9th & 12th in the WHL in points per game in last 2 seasons, 2-way player, just turned 23. Good skater, goes to the net and the corners, can play all 3 forward positions, Draft year was compared to Couturier, "Tyler Toffoli or Brayden Schenn"

 

I think Howden getting away from the "make mistakes faster" mentality will show what he can do with the puck, show a bit more creativity. He's scored some nice goals in front of the net. He also wont forget the good things he learned under Quinn, but maybe slowing down a little bit will help. He's got a long body, and they helps take up a ton of space when you arent sprinting everywhere. He's got enough size to make guys play through him, too. Once these guys learn to take up space and get in the way, they'll be tough to play against. Now, with his 3 seasons of experience, we can see what's really there.

 

Fair enough.. I dont think youre wrong its just that there are about 5 guys I feel that way about who are most definitely better than Howden (Kakko, laf, chytil, kravtsov, and hell even gauthier). I was mostly joking, I dont actually believe he will be a part of this tea next season but I have been known to be wrong before.

Fair enough.. I dont think youre wrong its just that there are about 5 guys I feel that way about who are most definitely better than Howden (Kakko, laf, chytil, kravtsov, and hell even gauthier). I was mostly joking, I dont actually believe he will be a part of this tea next season but I have been known to be wrong before.

 

I think the difference is Howden having a chance to solidify the lineup. The top 8 is set for the most part. It's really who can fill those bottom few slots. I think he was another kid that was over-thinking his play, but was still good enough to get by. I really do want to see what he could do, but I'm not sure he'll get the chance.

he's probably the guy I'm most interested in seeing with a new coach.

What if, pretend, you've never seen him play - he's been playing the AHL, whatever. idk, the Rangers just acquired some kid you've never heard of

 

6'2, 200lbs, Center, wore C 2 years and A 1 year in junior hockey, 1st round pick, 9th & 12th in the WHL in points per game in last 2 seasons, 2-way player, just turned 23. Good skater, goes to the net and the corners, can play all 3 forward positions, Draft year was compared to Couturier, "Tyler Toffoli or Brayden Schenn"

 

I think Howden getting away from the "make mistakes faster" mentality will show what he can do with the puck, show a bit more creativity. He's scored some nice goals in front of the net. He also wont forget the good things he learned under Quinn, but maybe slowing down a little bit will help. He's got a long body, and they helps take up a ton of space when you arent sprinting everywhere. He's got enough size to make guys play through him, too. Once these guys learn to take up space and get in the way, they'll be tough to play against. Now, with his 3 seasons of experience, we can see what's really there.

 

If you want to see him so bad with Gallant why did you slot him as a healthy scratch lol

 

Oddly enough, I don't really disagree with you, and he may/could surprise.

If you want to see him so bad with Gallant why did you slot him as a healthy scratch lol

 

Oddly enough, I don't really disagree with you, and he may/could surprise.

 

I encourage a healthy rotation of all players.

What if, pretend, you've never seen him play

 

In assessing a player, why pretend you have never seen him play when you have seen him play, a lot in fact? It's not like we've only seen this guy play briefly, with a coach who wasn't utilizing him well. We've seen him play for three years for a coach who was his patron saint.

 

Sure, he could be a late bloomer. But playing time is a zero sum game. If one guy's getting it, someone else isn't. The someone else, whoever it might be, probably stands a better chance of developing at this point.

In assessing a player, why pretend you have never seen him play when you have seen him play, a lot in fact? It's not like we've only seen this guy play briefly, with a coach who wasn't utilizing him well. We've seen him play for three years for a coach who was his patron saint.

 

Sure, he could be a late bloomer. But playing time is a zero sum game. If one guy's getting it, someone else isn't. The someone else, whoever it might be, probably stands a better chance of developing at this point.

 

I think, at least, if you need a Couturier/Toffoli type and you have a guy billed as a Couturier/Toffoli type, you may as well see if he is who you think he is, or a new coach can unlock him.

 

He won't hold anyone back. He won't take a spot from a more deserving player. It's fine.

In assessing a player, why pretend you have never seen him play when you have seen him play, a lot in fact? It's not like we've only seen this guy play briefly, with a coach who wasn't utilizing him well. We've seen him play for three years for a coach who was his patron saint.

 

Sure, he could be a late bloomer. But playing time is a zero sum game. If one guy's getting it, someone else isn't. The someone else, whoever it might be, probably stands a better chance of developing at this point.

 

removing bias, as made apparent by the rest of the post

I'm totally on board with a clean slate for many players on the current roster. Gallant has a different mentality for the game and for how he uses his players

 

Anyone with size will likely get many looks until he finds what they are good at. I think we will see a lot of strange line combos this season. Just for the purpose of spreading the size around the lineup.

 

There are also some prospects that may peak his interest just because of their size. Obviously there's Cuylle, but they also have Gettinger at 6'6, a long shot in Edstrom at 6'6 and I'm sure they will scoop up some beef in free agency and undrafted players.

 

We may just see Howden or Gauthier or Barron moved up the lineup to balance things out. We will definitely see more of the 3rd and 4th lines.

 

Gotta wonder what Gallant does with the D as well. Will he give Hajek a look or trip over his bones when he sees Skinner, Schneider and Robertson?

I don't think they brought Gallant in here to run a large majority of the same guys out there who've done little to nothing to date again next hoping for different results. I think you will see a bigger roster shake up rather than that approach. I believe their goal is a larger shake up than hope and that includes mixing in nex faces and losing some of these he could of possibly been better under Gallant types. I really don't see the well granted X hasn't done anything so far but Gallant needs to play him up the lineup specifically Gauthier for example. Kravs being maybe the only exception to that scenario for me.

I'm really looking forward to seeing Chytil next season under Gallant. If he beefs up this summer and figure out how to win some faceoffs, this may be his breakout season. No more kid lines please.

I'm really looking forward to seeing Chytil next season under Gallant. If he beefs up this summer and figure out how to win some faceoffs, this may be his breakout season. No more kid lines please.

 

I'm a big fan of his, but I'll be shocked if he's still on the team.

I was also surprised to see that the biggest dude on the Rangers ( meaning weight ), height is usually the standard, is Gauthier at a whopping 230 lbs. ! I'm sure many on here have mentioned this before but it just hit me personally when looking at the stats. I know there is alot of fuckery with said stats, but there are not many players in the NHL with body fat (sorry Phil Kessel) so I'm a advocate for the goat. To be that big and skate the way he does? This season should be about getting these boys to men and finishing checks like there is no tomorrow. Any questions, see Panthers vs. Lightning, 1st round.