[brooks] Dolan: Chris Drury 'The Right Guy' to Lead Rangers Culture Change

But what was out there to get bigger/tougher this past offseason? They tried to get Martin and wanted to stay an Islander. They tried to get Chara for leadership/toughness on the blue line and he went to Washington. What else was out there for Gorton/JD?

Well, I didn’t specifically see where Martin turned down the Rangers but it’s possible. He didn’t sign until January though. Ufa period started in October. I’m not sure there was much to anything since they shot all their cap space on day one basically of the UFA period.

But guys available were

Simmonds

Martin

Chara

Maroon

Perry

Hell you could have brought in a Boyle or Derek Grant just for faceoffs. That’s an area they’ve been beyond bad for a while. You could have looked to unload a Howden or a Gauthier for a Glendening that pls and wins faceoffs if you were serious about taking steps forward to improving the balance of this team. Both of those guys realistically are never cracking top 6 even if it’s just purely because they will never get top 6 minutes with our top 6 roster. Cant just forever stockpile prospects that’ll never actually play.

Doesn’t always have to be from a ufa anyway. Sometimes you have to deal from a strength to help a weakness.

I mean Jared tinordi passed through waivers and landed in Boston. We had bitteto and jack johnson taking up space on our roster contributing to what need other than someone with a pulse. Tinordi isn’t anything special but before even bothering to look at whom was available there is that. Sam Bennett was available via trade and could have been acquired. To say there is no one else they could have got is a ridiculous argument. It was a conscious decision not to address their weakness. They might have thought they could wait another year. As “hockey people” that’s a failure in competence. This past two weeks has exposed that weakness in the worst way possible.

 

I couldn’t stand how soft this team has become, really since AV it’s been worse and worse every year. The constant argument is that the league changed. I always thought that was bullshit. This past two weeks put ever into focus. The rangers could not compete with the season on the line against the isles. Not because of talent. Then Wilson put the cherry on top.

 

I actually think Dolan is making a really smart decision. He’s 100% right. This team hasn’t had an identity in years. They aren’t contending for anything until they fix that.

 

Fedetenko, Prust, Boyle were bottom 6 guys who helped form the identity. No offense to howden Rooney Blackwell etc but they are just there bringing a pulse.

Is Tinordi even a hockey player or is he in the NHL b/c of his name? The dude played 20 games this year and hasn't even done much, and its not like he's even dropping the gloves either. Do you have inside info whether they didn't try to get Sam Bennett? Maybe they did and Calgary wanted too much during the offseason or in the beginning of the year. We don't know anything from the inside if they tried to beef up, maybe they did, maybe they didn't. This past offseason was really slim pickings and everyone knew it, so you can't force to get something if its not there, that's how you end up making bad decisions like trading a youngster for Sam Bennett in a knee jerk reaction.

Well, I didn’t specifically see where Martin turned down the Rangers but it’s possible. He didn’t sign until January though. Ufa period started in October. I’m not sure there was much to anything since they shot all their cap space on day one basically of the UFA period.

But guys available were

Simmonds

Martin

Chara

Maroon

Perry

Hell you could have brought in a Boyle or Derek Grant just for faceoffs. That’s an area they’ve been beyond bad for a while. You could have looked to unload a Howden or a Gauthier for a Glendening that pls and wins faceoffs if you were serious about taking steps forward to improving the balance of this team. Both of those guys realistically are never cracking top 6 even if it’s just purely because they will never get top 6 minutes with our top 6 roster. Cant just forever stockpile prospects that’ll never actually play.

 

Doesn’t always have to be from a ufa anyway. Sometimes you have to deal from a strength to help a weakness.

Wasn't it out there that they put feelers out for him but knew that he was waiting on the Islanders?

This place would have gone nuts if the Rangers signed Simmonds or Perry, it would have been WTF are the Rangers doing to sign these washed up over-35 year olds?

Maroon only wanted TB

I agree they should have signed Boyle, he was willing to come back here.....at the same time you also have to wonder why Boyle is still not in the league?

Yeah that would’ve been nice.

But... wasn’t feasible due to cap constraints and not exactly the best class of available FA’s and a not so active trade market either.

 

This was the transition year, with the remainder of the changes coming this summer and I think that was the general (and correct) consensus opinion.

 

Regardless though... culture change?

 

Can you honestly believe JD or anything associated with JD is poor in its culture?

And for that matter, but on a lower level, Gorton too.

Come on.

Again, if it wasn’t available due to cap constraints then that’s on Gorton in the first place. Keep in mind ADA, Lemieux, Jack Johnson are three contracts brought in or extended that aren’t even with us anymore. Right there is nearly 7.5m in cap space used going into this season that could have been used elsewhere for the same 1-2 years in different ways to round out the team.

Well, I didn’t specifically see where Martin turned down the Rangers but it’s possible. He didn’t sign until January though. Ufa period started in October. I’m not sure there was much to anything since they shot all their cap space on day one basically of the UFA period.

But guys available were

Simmonds

Martin

Chara

Maroon

Perry

Hell you could have brought in a Boyle or Derek Grant just for faceoffs. That’s an area they’ve been beyond bad for a while. You could have looked to unload a Howden or a Gauthier for a Glendening that pls and wins faceoffs if you were serious about taking steps forward to improving the balance of this team. Both of those guys realistically are never cracking top 6 even if it’s just purely because they will never get top 6 minutes with our top 6 roster. Cant just forever stockpile prospects that’ll never actually play.

 

Doesn’t always have to be from a ufa anyway. Sometimes you have to deal from a strength to help a weakness.

There’s a couple names there that could’ve helped them. But again, I think that the guys you mentioned, none of those guys are longer term guys, nor the guys that they felt were the right guys.

And I think that this year, they were gonna ride it out, evaluate what they had, and make those moves this summer.

Again, if it wasn’t available due to cap constraints then that’s on Gorton in the first place. Keep in mind ADA, Lemieux, Jack Johnson are three contracts brought in or extended that aren’t even with us anymore. Right there is nearly 7.5m in cap space used going into this season that could have been used elsewhere for the same 1-2 years in different ways to round out the team.

Thats 20/20 hindsight. ADA is a special situation that doesn't need re-hashing.

Lemieux asked for a trade out of town b/c of the way he was being used.

Jack Johnson had a season ending injury and couldn't predict that.

Wasn't it out there that they put feelers out for him but knew that he was waiting on the Islanders?

This place would have gone nuts if the Rangers signed Simmonds or Perry, it would have been WTF are the Rangers doing to sign these washed up over-35 year olds?

Maroon only wanted TB

 

I agree they should have signed Boyle, he was willing to come back here.....at the same time you also have to wonder why Boyle is still not in the league?

Honestly I don’t know with Martin but I do remember the Isles were in bad cap space until Boychuck went on LTIR. I’m sure Martin was privy to that but as I said, I don’t know. As for Simmonds and or Perry. I wanted Simmonds. I thought he would have been perfect. I said so. I’m not sure any gm cares what we say so that’s not really a big deal. Maybe guys here would have lost their shit but it wouldn’t be the first time the fan base was wrong lol. Hell Perry has two less points this year than Blackwell and we wax poetic about how he’s been this year. I imagine if we had him and saw the leadership or even the no nonsense he would have given against the tougher teams, we would have bed. Waxing poetic too.

Simmonds is only 32 FYI. Think if we had two on the 4th line of Perry and Simmonds we get out muscled as much in the last two weeks?

Again, if it wasn’t available due to cap constraints then that’s on Gorton in the first place. Keep in mind ADA, Lemieux, Jack Johnson are three contracts brought in or extended that aren’t even with us anymore. Right there is nearly 7.5m in cap space used going into this season that could have been used elsewhere for the same 1-2 years in different ways to round out the team.

I’m not saying the guys perfect.

Didn’t like the Johnson signing, or the Shatty signing and buyout which soaked up cap.

But I had no issue with keeping ADA or what they gave him, and they had no choice but to let ADA go. No real issue with the small sum on a short deal they gave to Lemieux either.

He did also get out from under Staal, whom he didn’t extend. And the Lundqvist contract wasn’t his either, nor was the Girardi extension they’re still paying on due to a necessary buyout.

Again... he definitely hasn’t been great. He’s clearly lucked into a lot of things. And he’s had his swings and misses too.

But I don’t think at this juncture he’s deserved to get axed.

Thats 20/20 hindsight. ADA is a special situation that doesn't need re-hashing.

Lemieux asked for a trade out of town b/c of the way he was being used.

Jack Johnson had a season ending injury and couldn't predict that.

No need to rehash it. But the owner could not have been happy to be writing checks for this season and next totalling $13 million for all of 5 games. If DeAngelo is that big a tool, why did you resign him.

Thats 20/20 hindsight. ADA is a special situation that doesn't need re-hashing.

Lemieux asked for a trade out of town b/c of the way he was being used.

Jack Johnson had a season ending injury and couldn't predict that.

But it’s not hindsight. Lemieux didn’t scare anyone in the NHL, JJ went into this year as the worst defenseman in the league no one really wanted, and ADA was k own to be a problem to this team so much that they apparently were shopping him all offseason, was in the doghouse a ton last year, and Gorton gave him an ultimatum like two weeks into the season knowing damn well Tony would open his mouth again. You can say hindsight on some things, but I don’t see how any of those 3 were. Besides, management is judged on outcomes of their decisions. Nature of the beast.

Honestly I don’t know with Martin but I do remember the Isles were in bad cap space until Boychuck went on LTIR. I’m sure Martin was privy to that but as I said, I don’t know. As for Simmonds and or Perry. I wanted Simmonds. I thought he would have been perfect. I said so. I’m not sure any gm cares what we say so that’s not really a big deal. Maybe guys here would have lost their shit but it wouldn’t be the first time the fan base was wrong lol. Hell Perry has two less points this year than Blackwell and we wax poetic about how he’s been this year. I imagine if we had him and saw the leadership or even the no nonsense he would have given against the tougher teams, we would have bed. Waxing poetic too.

 

 

Simmonds is only 32 FYI. Think if we had two on the 4th line of Perry and Simmonds we get out muscled as much in the last two weeks?

While Simmonds was on the Devils he looked like he was washed up. He was barely able to keep up.

IMO the Rangers f'd up when they couldn't get Joe Thornton. He was the guy they needed to lead this team for a year or 2. I betcha Chris Kreider would be a much different player if Joe Thornton was on the team.

If I'm the owner and we're all aware that we have a glaring problem and you do nothing to get it fixed I don't necessarily care about the reasons why. Some of the reasons were self inflicted (cap issues)some were out of your control. Ultimately the expectation was it's your job to fix it. It didn't get fixed and he had seen enough.

Real world shit, it happens all the time. Is it fair, that can be argued all day. I would bet though it's not any more complicated than that. Dolan had expectations which are in reality the only ones that matter and they were not met.

Is Tinordi even a hockey player or is he in the NHL b/c of his name? The dude played 20 games this year and hasn't even done much, and its not like he's even dropping the gloves either. Do you have inside info whether they didn't try to get Sam Bennett? Maybe they did and Calgary wanted too much during the offseason or in the beginning of the year. We don't know anything from the inside if they tried to beef up, maybe they did, maybe they didn't. This past offseason was really slim pickings and everyone knew it, so you can't force to get something if its not there, that's how you end up making bad decisions like trading a youngster for Sam Bennett in a knee jerk reaction.

Tinordi fought Wilson this year in the same game Wilso kod Carlo.

What I do know is that they didn't get anyone. Bennett was traded so he was available. (moved for 2 second round picks) They signed Jack Johnson bud. He was on their opening night roster. Whatever you think of Tinordi he's no worse than Jack Johnson at hockey. There were people available that is a beyond ridiculous argument. No one is talking about getting someone to replace anyone in the top 9. The Rangers had forwards playing 6 minutes a night onmany nights. You mean to tell me they couldn't find somebody with some beef to play that role?

Well, yes and no. It’s on the coach but that can be addressed in the offseason. Technically so could this move have, but it’s easier to replace the GM and President when you already knew the replacement is currently in the organization than it is coach which is a longer process. I also think both JD and Gorton have said playoffs this year is achievable but is not exactly a requirement. With this roster I think that’s criminal to publicly say.

 

 

JD is a bit of a head scratcher for sure but I can see it being due to Jd incorrectly taking a stand with Gorton rather than with the Rangers. I get it. Gorton is a hockey guy and Dolan isn’t. Still though, this team should be in a better place than it is considering how much actual talent there is performing on sn elite level right now and it certainly looked like Gorton and JD felt last years 7 week or so hot streak wasn’t indicative of where they are rather than saying “ok top end we are there, what other pieces can we add now to round out and improve our weaknesses.”

I wouldn't say it's criminal to not have playoffs as a requirement with the roster they had. It had glaring holes. The criminal part was they made little to no effort to improve the team where it needed it. I'm pretty sure this entire board said they needed to improve the bottom 6. Not only did they not improve it, they made it worse the second they let Fast go over pennies.

Not addressing holes in their lineup and no cap space are directly due to Gorton. Cant use things like that as excuses as to why it’s okay when it’s largely due to poor salary evaluation and roster management of the guy himself.

Agree here for sure. There is no excuse for letting Fast go over 1 extra year @ 2 million dollars, and meanwhile giving DeAngelo 4.5M when apparently DeAngelo was practically on the edge of getting kicked off the team. That's quite a miscalculation, and a grievous error for the team this year. Imagine having Fast and 2.5M to have spent somewhere else instead of DeAngelo?

The right moves should have had this team in the playoffs. I think they got a little lazy. I can understand why Dolan might not trust them to finish constructing the roster. Maybe their answer was going to be to not do much of anything again, and just wait for the kids to solve all of the problems.

I’m not saying the guys perfect.

Didn’t like the Johnson signing, or the Shatty signing and buyout which soaked up cap.

But I had no issue with keeping ADA or what they gave him, and they had no choice but to let ADA go. No real issue with the small sum on a short deal they gave to Lemieux either.

 

He did also get out from under Staal, whom he didn’t extend. And the Lundqvist contract wasn’t his either, nor was the Girardi extension they’re still paying on due to a necessary buyout.

 

Again... he definitely hasn’t been great. He’s clearly lucked into a lot of things. And he’s had his swings and misses too.

But I don’t think at this juncture he’s deserved to get axed.

I’m only saying I’m not shocked. As you said, he lucked into plenty of things. He’s also managed to screw up a couple of things he lucked into like overpaying Trouba with leverage. I just think if someone is looking at this in utter shock, there’s a few things I think they are missing quite a few things.

If I'm the owner and we're all aware that we have a glaring problem and you do nothing to get it fixed I don't necessarily care about the reasons why. Some of the reasons were self inflicted (cap issues)some were out of your control. Ultimately the expectation was it's your job to fix it. It didn't get fixed and he had seen enough.

 

Real world shit, it happens all the time. Is it fair, that can be argued all day. I would bet though it's not any more complicated than that. Dolan had expectations which are in reality the only ones that matter and they were not met.

So all the sudden the expectations from Dolan was that this should have been a playoff team....either though before the season everyone from top to bottom said that playoffs wasn't a must this season. You put the Rangers in 2 other divisions and they are a playoff team, but they were dealt with being in this division knowing full well that playoffs was going to be an overachievement. Even if you went 1-8 in the conference the Rangers would be a playoff team. Dolan is full of shit.

So all the sudden the expectations from Dolan was that this should have been a playoff team....either though before the season everyone from top to bottom said that playoffs wasn't a must this season. You put the Rangers in 2 other divisions and they are a playoff team, but they were dealt with being in this division knowing full well that playoffs was going to be an overachievement. Even if you went 1-8 in the conference the Rangers would be a playoff team. Dolan is full of shit.

Even conceding the other division/playoff thing, so what. They are not built to go very far in the playoffs. Not much has changed since the spanking by the Canes adminstered because they still have the same glaring weaknesses. Is "full of shit" defined as an owner that saw his manegement team had not addressed the obvious weaknesses?

I’m only saying I’m not shocked. As you said, he lucked into plenty of things. He’s also managed to screw up a couple of things he lucked into like overpaying Trouba with leverage. I just think if someone is looking at this in utter shock, there’s a few things I think they are missing quite a few things.

I’ll admit I’m very surprised. Not quite utter shock.

Not because he’s been gangbusters. But just because there’s been actual progress and growth and movement very much in the right direction, even if some of its been luck. Just doesn’t seem, to me at least, that there’s been enough to where his job security should even be in question. Especially when you’re still in a rebuild when you’re improving?

There’s a couple names there that could’ve helped them. But again, I think that the guys you mentioned, none of those guys are longer term guys, nor the guys that they felt were the right guys.

 

And I think that this year, they were gonna ride it out, evaluate what they had, and make those moves this summer.

Why does adding toughness have to be long term. Furthermore some of those guys also bring another element that they were/are surely in need of, leadership and experience. The biggest thin here is that none of these guys had to pay every night either. Look at who was dressed every night. Is someone going to make an argument that there wasn't room for these guys. The final point that drives this all home to how incompetent this was is that do have a lot talent. Young talent, young to the point where they aren't even fully grown men yet. How in the world do you present the best atmosphere for growth from your kids if they are playing scared. Not having that on your roster is criminal to those kids. Look at Chara last night. He didn't even have to drop his gloves. He went over to the Rangers bench and basically told them that's enough. He stayed out of it but when he had enough he ended it all with just a conversation. That is a pretty nice security blanket to play under. For the Rangers kids there was none of that, in fact the opposite. Opposing teams could intimidate all they wanted. Maybe that's a big reason for the struggles

Tinordi fought Wilson this year in the same game Wilso kod Carlo.

 

What I do know is that they didn't get anyone. Bennett was traded so he was available. (moved for 2 second round picks) They signed Jack Johnson bud. He was on their opening night roster. Whatever you think of Tinordi he's no worse than Jack Johnson at hockey. There were people available that is a beyond ridiculous argument. No one is talking about getting someone to replace anyone in the top 9. The Rangers had forwards playing 6 minutes a night onmany nights. You mean to tell me they couldn't find somebody with some beef to play that role?

 

 

 

Tinordi vs Ritchie (who happen to be a UFA)

Great you found some YouTube of Tinordi's cup of coffee in the league. The dude has been around since 2012 and has played 100 games. As I said bud, he's barely an NHL player.

Do you know if the Rangers tried to acquire Bennett? Maybe the price was too high when the Rangers possibly tried toacquire him. Great he was traded for 2 2nd round picks, picks that the Rangers don't even have.

While like most of us I didn't like the signing of Jack Johnson either, JJ was probably brought in for some leadership skills, Rangers didn't know what they had in Fox/Miller so added depth for a cheap salary. And while you compare why the Rangers didn't get Tinordi off of waivers, JJ got hurt in March while Tinordi was picked up off of waivers to Boston in late February so where would have Tinordi fit on the team at that time, bud?????

I can’t follow Dolans logic at all - which makes this seem even more like a gigantic farce.

1) he wanted to change the culture.

- so he fired the GM and the President and hired their assistant who agrees the rebuild is going well and we weren’t supposed to make the playoffs?

2) Dolan was unhappy about coming out flat in big games

- but he keeps the coach and gives drury no directive to change him?

3) it had nothing to do with the letter to the NHL.

- but it just so happens to coincide with... The letter to the NHL.

There’s just so many holes in this logic that it makes Dolan just look like a total moron.

I’ll admit I’m very surprised. Not quite utter shock.

Not because he’s been gangbusters. But just because there’s been actual progress and growth and movement very much in the right direction, even if some of its been luck. Just doesn’t seem, to me at least, that there’s been enough to where his job security should even be in question. Especially when you’re still in a rebuild when you’re improving?

Say that to the guy writing checks to guys not even on the team anymore with results in sight. We were 9 games over .500 last year and right now we are 2. Business men eventually gonna look at it from that angle I guess.

Bullshit. If other teams officials were in his ear, they'd be telling him that JD is a must keep and to trust in HIS vision.

Exit meetings? The move had to be done now because Drury had to be there?? He would have been there anyway!

There's holes all over this story and I'm hoping JD has the balls to tell all sooner or later.

If JD put his foot down and fell on the sword as people have been saying, then Dolan is a bigger dumbest than we thought. If that talk happened, and that's JDs reaction... You listen to JD. THATS why you brought him here for to begin with. To tell the dumb owner not to over react or to react at the very moment.. You don't fire JD.

I don't get this Drury infatuation.

Great you found some YouTube of Tinordi's cup of coffee in the league. The dude has been around since 2012 and has played 100 games. As I said bud, he's barely an NHL player.

Do you know if the Rangers tried to acquire Bennett? Maybe the price was too high when the Rangers possibly tried toacquire him. Great he was traded for 2 2nd round picks, picks that the Rangers don't even have.

While like most of us I didn't like the signing of Jack Johnson either, JJ was probably brought in for some leadership skills, Rangers didn't know what they had in Fox/Miller so added depth for a cheap salary. And while you compare why the Rangers didn't get Tinordi off of waivers, JJ got hurt in March while Tinordi was picked up off of waivers to Boston in late February so where would have Tinordi fit on the team at that time, bud?????

The first youtube clip is him fighting and doing ok fighting Wilson after Wilson ran Carlo. It's a direct example of exactly what the Rangers needed this week. Never said Tinordis good, he was a waiver claim for god's sake. What I am saying is that he would actually fill a role. Johnson and Bitetto fill what role? They are both barely NHL players too. Johnson is a leadership candidate only for financial advice for the kids. The guy's leadership value is as a cautionary tale of a wasted career, not as some kind of example to look up to.

Bennett is one player. The Rangers didn't address their glaring weakness. They didn't even bother to waiver Johnny Brodinski or Bitetto to add some muscle in Tinordi. Of course those guys were far to valuable.

Your missing the general point here. There are guys available who could have added muscle. None of them are going to impress anyone as top 6 players. That's why they are available. There is plenty of space on the Rangers taxi squad and fourth line that would not be missed if they were gone tomorrow. That's the point. They chose not to address it.

Say that to the guy writing checks to guys not even on the team anymore with results in sight. We were 9 games over .500 last year and right now we are 2. Business men eventually gonna look at it from that angle I guess.

Bad argument. And bullshit.

He’s been writing checks for years under those same circumstances.

Yet... they’re still paying Glen Sather.

All the shit contracts that guy has handed out. And 20 years later he’s still here.