[brooks] Dolan: Chris Drury 'The Right Guy' to Lead Rangers Culture Change

Why does adding toughness have to be long term. Furthermore some of those guys also bring another element that they were/are surely in need of, leadership and experience. The biggest thin here is that none of these guys had to pay every night either. Look at who was dressed every night. Is someone going to make an argument that there wasn't room for these guys. The final point that drives this all home to how incompetent this was is that do have a lot talent. Young talent, young to the point where they aren't even fully grown men yet. How in the world do you present the best atmosphere for growth from your kids if they are playing scared. Not having that on your roster is criminal to those kids. Look at Chara last night. He didn't even have to drop his gloves. He went over to the Rangers bench and basically told them that's enough. He stayed out of it but when he had enough he ended it all with just a conversation. That is a pretty nice security blanket to play under. For the Rangers kids there was none of that, in fact the opposite. Opposing teams could intimidate all they wanted. Maybe that's a big reason for the struggles

It doesn’t.

Just don’t think they wanted to bring in guys that were aging or old or whatever and didn’t have a lot to add anymore... they didn’t feel those guys were right.

I can’t follow Dolans logic at all - which makes this seem even more like a gigantic farce.

 

1) he wanted to change the culture.

- so he fired the GM and the President and hired their assistant who agrees the rebuild is going well and we weren’t supposed to make the playoffs?

2

) Dolan was unhappy about coming out flat in big games

- but he keeps the coach and gives drury no directive to change him?

 

3) it had nothing to do with the letter to the NHL.

- but it just so happens to coincide with... The letter to the NHL.

 

There’s just so many holes in this logic that it makes Dolan just look like a total moron.

As to #1, they do have to change the culture. It's not even a question the perimeter/pass/nonphysical approach has to change. And it was the same problems last summer vs. the Canes.

As to #2, Quinn has not yet been retained.

As to #3,even writers who dislike Dolan admit the timing was coincidental rather than the causation.

It doesn’t.

Just don’t think they wanted to bring in guys that were aging or old or whatever and didn’t have a lot to add anymore... they didn’t feel those guys were right.

Quinn just stated in his post game press conference that he thinks the Rangers division is just brutal physically. The hardest division to play in in terms of physicality. Now the physicality of the division didn't sneak up on them. The Rangers were trying to compete and build a culture playing only against divisional opponents. How do you not address your own physicality going into a season playing only divisional games especially when the prior year exposed the same problem and you plan on getting younger?

I'm sorry JD and Gorton fucked up here. Should they be fired for it? That's debatable. But for hockey people they missed the fucking boat and the Rangers got embarrassed for it.

I can't get that opening shift pillow fight last night. Good for the response but just think of how things changed in 10 years. Rupp, Prust, Bickel to Blackwell, Rooney, DeGuiesseppe. God that's awful. Keith Jones in between periods, the Caps have about 5-6 guys that can beat up everyone on the Rangers. Pathetic.

The Caps did the Rangers a big favor last night. They allowed the Rangers to have their slap fights with their equals on their roster. The Caps could have made a mess of them last night if they wanted to. The Rangers tayed far away from Backtrom and Carlson. They choose to allow the Rangers to feel good about themselves as long as they didn't go there.

So all the sudden the expectations from Dolan was that this should have been a playoff team....either though before the season everyone from top to bottom said that playoffs wasn't a must this season. You put the Rangers in 2 other divisions and they are a playoff team, but they were dealt with being in this division knowing full well that playoffs was going to be an overachievement. Even if you went 1-8 in the conference the Rangers would be a playoff team. Dolan is full of shit.

I don't buy they're a supremely talented team just missing some grit. They're a two line team made up of "not the kids" at this stage. I look forward to Drury seriously shaking things up and making some deals that hurt at first when I hear them. My belief is that to get the pieces they need they're going to have to deal guys you may not want to.

Even conceding the other division/playoff thing, so what. They are not built to go very far in the playoffs. Not much has changed since the spanking by the Canes adminstered because they still have the same glaring weaknesses. Is "full of shit" defined as an owner that saw his manegement team had not addressed the obvious weaknesses?

I don't know what his playoff expectations were, it's pretty clear he expected that they should of done something to fix the glaring weakness in the make up of the lineup. Don't be a pushover. I'm not a huge fan of Dolan either but he mentions a stretch of games where even if they lose they had to show something, they didn't, they got rolled. Most people here agreed it was disgraceful, clearly he did too. It appears to have been the last straw. It's his call to make we can call bs all day if it helps.

 

I don't buy they're a supremely talented team just missing some grit. They're a two line team made up of "not the kids" at this stage. I look forward to Drury seriously shaking things up and making some deals that hurt at first when I hear them. My belief is that to get the pieces they need they're going to have to deal guys you may not want to.

Agreed. If Dolan made the change because of that then I'm all for him not being ok with bullshit effort and no response from within the team. Losing is one thing showing no resistance in losing is unacceptable. Losing while getting your ass handed to you with no pushback is unacceptable. I hate Dolan but he's not wrong here. You can call him caring about that bs but nobody can say it's not true. You can blame Quinn too but Quinn didn't put together the roster or hire himself.

The first youtube clip is him fighting and doing ok fighting Wilson after Wilson ran Carlo. It's a direct example of exactly what the Rangers needed this week. Never said Tinordis good, he was a waiver claim for god's sake. What I am saying is that he would actually fill a role. Johnson and Bitetto fill what role? They are both barely NHL players too. Johnson is a leadership candidate only for financial advice for the kids. The guy's leadership value is as a cautionary tale of a wasted career, not as some kind of example to look up to.

Bennett is one player. The Rangers didn't address their glaring weakness. They didn't even bother to waiver Johnny Brodinski or Bitetto to add some muscle in Tinordi. Of course those guys were far to valuable.

 

Your missing the general point here. There are guys available who could have added muscle. None of them are going to impress anyone as top 6 players. That's why they are available. There is plenty of space on the Rangers taxi squad and fourth line that would not be missed if they were gone tomorrow. That's the point. They chose not to address it.

At the time of Nashville waiving Tinordi, where does he fit on the Rangers?

Rangers have Fox, Lindgren, Trouba, Miller, Johnson, Smith. You have to be a serious psychic to think oh we should pick up Tinordi on Feb 26 bc Jack Johnson would be out a couple of weeks later, Trouba would get hurt in April, and the Rangers would get tossed around in the end of April/early May.

I agree that the Rangers were soft coming into the season and you could probably search for posts that I said the Rangers should try and get Matt Martin bc of this crazy divisional set up for this season but for Dolan to pull the rug out from Gorton and JD with 3 games left doesn’t pass the smell test. This is the same type of shit he’s been doing to the Knicks for the past 20 years and we see how that has turned out until this season. Are the Rangers now gonna be the Knicks? Dolan gonna be more involved? I think that is the biggest issue people have.

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Bad argument. And bullshit.

 

He’s been writing checks for years under those same circumstances.

Yet... they’re still paying Glen Sather.

All the shit contracts that guy has handed out. And 20 years later he’s still here.

It’s not a bad argument. It’s just not one you agree with. This is also the longest playoff drought since the lockout in 05. I don’t think I would have fired Gorton but I can understand it. He’s been mediocre. I’d have fire the coach first. When push came to shove (literally) we looked less likely to make the playoffs this year than last year leading up to the pause. I’m sure that was pretty sobering. I’m guessing at some point there was some meeting where Gorton said “we’ll Mr Dolan we feel like we are building but we are a good 3 years or so away from competing” and that was that especially when you consider the window for guys like Kreider, Zibanejad, Panarin, and Strome are more within the next three years.

I kinda can understand that. There is no reason this team can’t be a playoff team with guys like that on the roster sprinkled in with a very good goalie in Shesty, a current Norris candidate in Fox, and a 7 million dollar Trouba. I’m just more confused that Quinn is still here but I really do think that’s just a formality since they don’t plan on replacing him from in house. That is unless Knoblauch really impressed them and they just didn’t want to mess with the Pack so late in the season. Normally I’d think that’s ridiculous but Drury did bring up the Pack today.

It’s not a bad argument. It’s just not one you agree with. This is also the longest playoff drought since the lockout in 05. I don’t think I would have fired Gorton but I can understand it. He’s been mediocre. I’d have fire the coach first. When push came to shove (literally) we looked less likely to make the playoffs this year than last year leading up to the pause. I’m sure that was pretty sobering. I’m guessing at some point there was some meeting where Gorton said “we’ll Mr Dolan we feel like we are building but we are a good 3 years or so away from competing” and that was that especially when you consider the window for guys like Kreider, Zibanejad, Panarin, and Strome are more within the next three years.

 

I kinda can understand that. There is no reason this team can’t be a playoff team with guys like that on the roster sprinkled in with a very good goalie in Shesty, a current Norris candidate in Fox, and a 7 million dollar Trouba. I’m just more confused that Quinn is still here but I really do think that’s just a formality since they don’t plan on replacing him from in house. That is unless Knoblauch really impressed them and they just didn’t want to mess with the Pack so late in the season. Normally I’d think that’s ridiculous but Drury did bring up the Pack today.

To bring up writing checks to guys no longer here is a bad argument.

They’ve been doing that forever. FOREVER.

It’s never seemed to bother them before.

Not once. Which is why they seem to keep doing it, just as they have been for 20 years.

And again, regardless of all of it... everything these guys said in the presser and to the media, the timing of it, and it happening 3 games from the end of the season.

All of that reeks of it being of something else.

This doesn’t happen with 3 games remaining if there’s not something else afoot.

Not defending Gorton. Not saying he’s been great.

Just saying there’s a good chance there’s more there.

Too many indicators say there is.

Who the fuck fires their President and GM under those circumstances?

To bring up writing checks to guys no longer here is a bad argument.

They’ve been doing that forever. FOREVER.

It’s never seemed to bother them before.

Not once. Which is why they seem to keep doing it, just as they have been for 20 years.

 

And again, regardless of all of it... everything these guys said in the presser and to the media, the timing of it, and it happening 3 games from the end of the season.

All of that reeks of it being of something else.

 

This doesn’t happen with 3 games remaining if there’s not something else afoot.

 

Not defending Gorton. Not saying he’s been great.

Just saying there’s a good chance there’s more there.

Too many indicators say there is.

 

Who the fuck fires their President and GM under those circumstances?

Well I respectfully disagree. I'd say bringing up how the owner has to pay guys bought out to not be here is a perfectly understandable argument as to why at some point he might have had enough. I don't know why you are bringing up 20 years ago. I'm talking about current dead cap, paying guys to stay home, etc. So if in an owner and I made mistakes 20 years ago in a non cap Era, I'm expected to forever be okay with the same monetary irresponsibility? It's not a big difference if it hapoened 3 games left or 3 weeks into the offseason which is days away for us. Reeks of what? What are we saying? Dolan did this not because of a lack of progress?

Like I said elsewhere. Our biggest rival 3 years ago had 3 more points than us as we finished last and they finished second to last. They also missed out on our 11m+ guy that preferred to be here. They lost their captain Tavares. Yet they went to the semi finals last year, are poised to go far this year if not all the way, and are going into a brand new arena next year. Dolan sees that. Meanwhile we buy out our franchise goalie, buy out a defenseman we signed to a big contract that wins a cup last year while we pay him, and send home another guy we are currently paying almost 5 million right now as we get our ass handed to us in the last few weeks to show just how far away we are.

I'm not saying I 100% agree but what other reasons do you think there are?

I wonder how much impact COVID had on Dolan. I mean I know he's filthy rich, but he had to be losing some big money on two fronts with the Knicks and Rangers, with no fans/concessions/etc. It's not as easy to take wasting 13 million dollars in dead cap + another 4.5M for DeAngelo. 17.5 million pissed away, and the team got its shit pushed in against the Islanders in must win games, and then got completely emasculated on home ice by one guy. I can see why many are calling it a knee jerk reaction, but I can also see it being just holding Gorton accountable for it.

I think Gorton's good moves outweigh his bad, but there is no question he has had quite a privilege being GM for a big market team with a deep pocketed owner. He would not have been able to escape some of these cap problems on most other teams. While I'm sure he'll get hired somewhere, if I was a smaller market team I would have second thoughts about it.

We'll all miss Chytil.

Like that one time he won a draw. That was fun.

When’s the last time Chytil played anyway?

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We'll all miss Chytil.

 

Like that one time he won a draw. That was fun.

He had a handful of some nifty goals with some really nice stick work. Those were fun too.

I wonder how much impact COVID had on Dolan. I mean I know he's filthy rich, but he had to be losing some big money on two fronts with the Knicks and Rangers, with no fans/concessions/etc. It's not as easy to take wasting 13 million dollars in dead cap + another 4.5M for DeAngelo. 17.5 million pissed away, and the team got its shit pushed in against the Islanders in must win games, and then got completely emasculated on home ice by one guy. I can see why many are calling it a knee jerk reaction, but I can also see it being just holding Gorton accountable for it.

 

I think Gorton's good moves outweigh his bad, but there is no question he has had quite a privilege being GM for a big market team with a deep pocketed owner. He would not have been able to escape some of these cap problems on most other teams. While I'm sure he'll get hired somewhere, if I was a smaller market team I would have second thoughts about it.

It's very easy to be casual with someone else's money. In year he almost no gate receipts nor concessions, $17.5 million hurts no matter who you are. This is still a cap league. "To the "we still had cap room, no big deal!" crowd: we have no idea what moves the NYR could have made had they greater fleixibilty.

No small irony Sather is back in a big way.Yet he is the guy who , bidding against himself, gave Lundqvist that nightmare contract.

And again about DeAngelo; if he was a dick(which clearly appears to be the case) , why did Gorton give him a 2 year contract? The Rangers are business. This is rank mismanagement. If only they spent half the effort addressing their post-bubble weaknesses as they did clutching their pearls and obsessing over DeAngelo's comportment.

Well I respectfully disagree. I'd say bringing up how the owner has to pay guys bought out to not be here is a perfectly understandable argument as to why at some point he might have had enough. I don't know why you are bringing up 20 years ago. I'm talking about current dead cap, paying guys to stay home, etc. So if in an owner and I made mistakes 20 years ago in a non cap Era, I'm expected to forever be okay with the same monetary irresponsibility? It's not a big difference if it hapoened 3 games left or 3 weeks into the offseason which is days away for us. Reeks of what? What are we saying? Dolan did this not because of a lack of progress?

 

Like I said elsewhere. Our biggest rival 3 years ago had 3 more points than us as we finished last and they finished second to last. They also missed out on our 11m+ guy that preferred to be here. They lost their captain Tavares. Yet they went to the semi finals last year, are poised to go far this year if not all the way, and are going into a brand new arena next year. Dolan sees that. Meanwhile we buy out our franchise goalie, buy out a defenseman we signed to a big contract that wins a cup last year while we pay him, and send home another guy we are currently paying almost 5 million right now as we get our ass handed to us in the last few weeks to show just how far away we are.

 

I'm not saying I 100% agree but what other reasons do you think there are?

I see your points Keirik. And the logic in them.

I’ll entertain the fact that Dolan may have just wanted Gorton out and Drury in, and JD didn’t want to go along.

But I don’t see it as purely performance based.

I just don’t.

Even with the nature and general shitty manner in which Dolan typically conducts himself.

There’s another possibility too.

Drury.

It’s possible Dolan preferred and likes Drury so much that he wanted to make the move to keep Drury here.

Consider... no less than 5 teams have reached out wanting to talk with Drury. Minnesota, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, NJ, and Florida.

He’s stayed despite opportunities elsewhere.

But guys only do that for so long, and you have to believe that other teams would’ve reached out this off season wanting to speak with him.

Perhaps he told Dolan, “Hey, I’m going to explore other opportunities this summer.”

I don’t believe he threatened to leave or said anything to the effect of, get rid of Gorton or I’m gone. But it’s possible Drury said this, and Dolan reacted.

Who knows?

But I still feel there’s more there.

That said. I agree with you the roster lacks some important things. And that Gorton has gotten lucky on some things and made some errors along the way.

But I’ll return to what I’ve said previously.

They were well within the expected timeline and progression curve of a rebuild.

That really started in June of 17 IMO, and goes full on in February of 18.

From June of 17 I felt it would take 4-5 seasons. I looked at the 21-22 season as when they’d be ready to truly compete again

3 years later he’s essentially completely turned over the roster. It’s significantly more talented. And the youngest roster in the league. Plus a still excellent pool of prospects coming in addition to guys who have already reached the NHL.

My point is this... whatever happened along the way and the results on the ice... they’re basically right where they should be 3-4 years later.

And I’m not dismissing the point of on ice success. Obviously that’s the goal. But I don’t look at this roster as of yet and see sure fire playoff team with the ability to make a run... and here’s the kicker... I should not see that yet. That would IMO be unreasonable in expectation. These things take time. Typically 4- 5 seasons before your roster is basically all there and you’re ready to compete.

From my perspective, they’re entering year 5. And they were doing so with much of what they need in place and the means to go out and get the rest of what they need.

Hypothetically, they make their moves this off-season and take the step next year, then technically they did it in 4 cause in season 5 youre a very good winning team in season 5.

Again man... totally get what you’re saying.

I’d say overall Gorton has been above average to good.

Certainly not great.

1-10 scale, he’s been about a 6.5.

But I also think if they’d have given him one more summer, he’d have made those changes and additions and that number goes up.

I could totally buy he wanted Drury the next GM sooner rather than later. Gorton is a young guy, and was projected to be GM for quite some time. I don't think Chris would want to wait that long to take the reigns. He'd probably rather stay with the Rangers organization, thus turning down those other jobs. This whole Wilson situation and statement was a very convenient way to expedite the process of getting rid of he and JD, providing a bit of a smoke screen. I think Drury knew something and this 'coup' or whatever you want to call it was in the works for months. Perhaps them missing out on signing some more physical talent in the offseason upset things. Maybe this goes back to some of the bad contracts and trades Gorton made and that was the final straw for Dolan. Of course we'll never know the real reasons. But, I think this holds a lot of merit.

I think that this element is possible

I see your points Keirik. And the logic in them.

I’ll entertain the fact that Dolan may have just wanted Gorton out and Drury in, and JD didn’t want to go along.

But I don’t see it as purely performance based.

I just don’t.

Even with the nature and general shitty manner in which Dolan typically conducts himself.

 

There’s another possibility too.

Drury.

 

It’s possible Dolan preferred and likes Drury so much that he wanted to make the move to keep Drury here.

Consider... no less than 5 teams have reached out wanting to talk with Drury. Minnesota, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, NJ, and Florida.

He’s stayed despite opportunities elsewhere.

But guys only do that for so long, and you have to believe that other teams would’ve reached out this off season wanting to speak with him.

Perhaps he told Dolan, “Hey, I’m going to explore other opportunities this summer.”

I don’t believe he threatened to leave or said anything to the effect of, get rid of Gorton or I’m gone. But it’s possible Drury said this, and Dolan reacted.

 

Who knows?

 

But I still feel there’s more there.

 

That said. I agree with you the roster lacks some important things. And that Gorton has gotten lucky on some things and made some errors along the way.

 

But I’ll return to what I’ve said previously.

 

They were well within the expected timeline and progression curve of a rebuild.

That really started in June of 17 IMO, and goes full on in February of 18.

From June of 17 I felt it would take 4-5 seasons. I looked at the 21-22 season as when they’d be ready to truly compete again

3 years later he’s essentially completely turned over the roster. It’s significantly more talented. And the youngest roster in the league. Plus a still excellent pool of prospects coming in addition to guys who have already reached the NHL.

 

My point is this... whatever happened along the way and the results on the ice... they’re basically right where they should be 3-4 years later.

And I’m not dismissing the point of on ice success. Obviously that’s the goal. But I don’t look at this roster as of yet and see sure fire playoff team with the ability to make a run... and here’s the kicker... I should not see that yet. That would IMO be unreasonable in expectation. These things take time. Typically 4- 5 seasons before your roster is basically all there and you’re ready to compete.

From my perspective, they’re entering year 5. And they were doing so with much of what they need in place and the means to go out and get the rest of what they need.

Hypothetically, they make their moves this off-season and take the step next year, then technically they did it in 4 cause in season 5 youre a very good winning team in season 5.

 

Again man... totally get what you’re saying.

I’d say overall Gorton has been above average to good.

Certainly not great.

1-10 scale, he’s been about a 6.5.

But I also think if they’d have given him one more summer, he’d have made those changes and additions and that number goes up.

I hear ya about Drury. I’m sure that’s part of it as well. Dolan might have had guys in his ear saying how inexcusable to not have address grit and toughness at all even before the Wilson event and that just being the tipping gotcha moment. I’m sure watching big games against the Isles where they didn’t even look to be in the same league got the ball really rolling. Then you look to your right and see a sought after guy named Chris Drury that was more known for grit, clutch, and being a winner……..and yeah

I hear ya about Drury. I’m sure that’s part of it as well. Dolan might have had guys in his ear saying how inexcusable to not have address grit and toughness at all even before the Wilson event and that just being the tipping gotcha moment. I’m sure watching big games against the Isles where they didn’t even look to be in the same league got the ball really rolling. Then you look to your right and see a sought after guy named Chris Drury that was more known for grit, clutch, and being a winner……..and yeah

The answer is probably somewhere in between all of this that we're talking about.

Gorton and JD knew the Rangers needed more grit but couldn't/didn't address it after Carolina - this was exposed by the Islanders in a very painful way

Drury is widely considered the best young executive in the NHL (or at least among them)

Honestly, it's fair to say this last year has been an absolute gong show of unnecessary drama, almost none of which is Gorton's fault directly, but all of which could probably have been handled better: the K'Andre Miller Zoom call, the whimper in the bubble, the Hank buyout, the lack of addressing grit in the offseason, the ADA issues, the Panarin issues, the Islanders handing us our asses when we had the season on the line, and so on. I can 100% understand Dolan saying he's not seeing the leadership.

Sometimes we forget that General Manager means more than "makes the roster and signs the deals" - it's managing outcomes for something like a dozen departments, of which the on-ice product is usually the end result.

Very well said. I forgot who else siad it but ALF falling in their lap probably also threw them in a loop. It's an awesome problem to have but it is another high end talent that will need to be paid eventually that has to be accounted for.

It had to have, no? The "plan" was almost assuredly not to get Lafreniere. It's stupid luck, but that pick went from being a major trade asset to a "must use" pretty much with the bounce of a ball, and it had to have set in motion a completely different set of events.