Adam Fox: Norris Candidate? Adam Fox: Norris Candidate!

First off, welcome aboard my friend!!! :cheers:

 

I'm ancient enough to say I saw Leetch as a rookie and watched him very closely as he developed. Leetch was a phenomenal skater and could "think the game" as well as the Coffey's, Bourque's, Housley's and Chelios' of that era. I think when the Rangers acquired Messier, Leetch absolutely took off! That's when he hit elite status in my eyes.

 

The broken ankle hindered him for a while but I think it hampered him more as he got older.

 

Fox has a similar start to his career, and he looks very promising. Actually I feel as though Fox has caught on faster than Leetch did, way back when. There's no doubt we've caught lightning in a bottle with Fox. He's a pleasure to watch game in and game out!!

Thank you sir. I am also ancient and saw my first game in the blueseats w/ My dad in 1976 as a spry 9 year old. It was the Flyers and the inevitable beatdown ensued when 4 Flyers fans started shooting their mouths off. Good times!! I think your comments on this are spot on with the speed of development! Really hope the ultimate outcome is as good. It'll be fun watching it develop.

The only knock i have is he has no shot. I think its partly the reason the PP sucks. He never shoots and always looking to pass, which makes him predictable on the PP.

Two knocks: Shot and no physicality. Great player but when saying there isn't a defenseman I would trade straight up for him, I think that's being a little delusional.

The only knock i have is he has no shot. I think its partly the reason the PP sucks. He never shoots and always looking to pass, which makes him predictable on the PP.

He doesn't have much of a slapshot. His wrist shot is pretty fantastic for a defenseman and he's very capable of shooting for tips.

The only knock i have is he has no shot. I think its partly the reason the PP sucks. He never shoots and always looking to pass, which makes him predictable on the PP.

If you mean a power shot or a great one timer, I agree. He's never going to blast it by a goalie. But his ability to create a shooting lane, shot selection and placement, getting pucks through traffic, etc...that's upper echelon. I'm not sure there is a defenseman better in the league than him in those categories.

Two knocks: Shot and no physicality. Great player but when saying there isn't a defenseman I would trade straight up for him, I think that's being a little delusional.

I'd love to ask who you would trade for him straight up right now, taking into consideration, age, contract etc.? List can't be that long, I'd imagine.

Plus, you've seen someone like Brad Park play who was obviously great, just kind of overshadowed a bit because he played during the same time period that Bobby Orr did.

D men made more end to end rushes then, and so did Park. He combined that with being a bruiser. His game was complete. Tremendous powerplay QB, everything.

And yes, people are forgetting how great McD was for about three years. Just about every game he would do something and I would think there are not three other D men in the game who could do that.

Fox is unique. He should be great for a long time. He's so level headed and will be there when the chips are down. Last night he actually was guilty of a give-away, and it was if a charge was put into him nd he went and took the puck back. I've seen Panarin have the same reaction and do that. Rare company.

The only knock i have is he has no shot. I think its partly the reason the PP sucks. He never shoots and always looking to pass, which makes him predictable on the PP.

No, the PP sucks when Zib shanks one-timers. Remember when everyone was trying to blame the struggling PP on them putting Fox as the QB over ADA? Last year ADA had 19 PP points in 68 games. Fox is sitting at 15 pp points through 31 games. Fox works as the QB just fine because he can put the puck on the tape of any of the 4 other guys at any time. Its up to the other guys to get their shots off and Zib is starting to find his.

Fox is also a lot smarter than "that other guy"!

Fox' Hockey IQ is light years beyond "the other guy"

I refuse to even mention his name, because the every thread turns into a shit show when his name gets mentioned :rofl:

...see Lefty??? I can avoid it when necessary!! LOL

Fox is also a lot smarter than "that other guy"!

 

Fox' Hockey IQ is light years beyond "the other guy"

 

I refuse to even mention his name, because the every thread turns into a shit show when his name gets mentioned :rofl:

 

...see Lefty??? I can avoid it when necessary!! LOL

Fox is also a lot smarter than "that other guy"!

 

Fox' Hockey IQ is light years beyond "the other guy"

 

I refuse to even mention his name, because the every thread turns into a shit show when his name gets mentioned :rofl:

 

...see Lefty??? I can avoid it when necessary!! LOL

You forgot to mention Fox actually plays defense unlike "the other guy"

No, the PP sucks when Zib shanks one-timers. Remember when everyone was trying to blame the struggling PP on them putting Fox as the QB over ADA? Last year ADA had 19 PP points in 68 games. Fox is sitting at 15 pp points through 31 games. Fox works as the QB just fine because he can put the puck on the tape of any of the 4 other guys at any time. Its up to the other guys to get their shots off and Zib is starting to find his.

Well, that's actually not true but whatever. Guys, like myself, were saying that the pp is going to be less effective when you take away one offensive D option who's entire game is focused around offense. And it still remains true regardless of ADA's shitty start. Slumps dont last foever. We have one of the worst PP right now and Fox averages over 4 minutes pp time per game. It's not exactly Fox' at all fault but Next closest D is Trouba and Miller with under 2 minutes each. I don't think either of them even have a pp point this year which is actualyl difficult to even comprehend since they both are on the pp2 unit. Compare that to last year where ADA had 3 minutes per game and Fox had 2 minutes per game and they were fairly deadly in a pp1 and pp2 scenario where they both succeeded.

Well, that's actually not true but whatever. Guys, like myself, were saying that the pp is going to be less effective when you take away one offensive D option who's entire game is focused around offense. And it still remains true regardless of ADA's shitty start. Slumps dont last foever. We have one of the worst PP right now and Fox averages over 4 minutes pp time per game. It's not exactly Fox' at all fault but Next closest D is Trouba and Miller with under 2 minutes each. I don't think either of them even have a pp point this year which is actualyl difficult to even comprehend since they both are on the pp2 unit. Compare that to last year where ADA had 3 minutes per game and Fox had 2 minutes per game and they were fairly deadly in a pp1 and pp2 scenario where they both succeeded.

Well that 2nd unit gets next to no setup time, you know that. First unit is usually around 1:20 of the PP.

The Rangers are 10th in the NHL on the PP since 2/14/21, 23% which is pretty effective. There just happen to be some insane PPs this season. with the Canes and Jets over 30% and Oilers and TB just under 30%.

Well, that's actually not true but whatever. Guys, like myself, were saying that the pp is going to be less effective when you take away one offensive D option who's entire game is focused around offense. And it still remains true regardless of ADA's shitty start. Slumps dont last foever. We have one of the worst PP right now and Fox averages over 4 minutes pp time per game. It's not exactly Fox' at all fault but Next closest D is Trouba and Miller with under 2 minutes each. I don't think either of them even have a pp point this year which is actualyl difficult to even comprehend since they both are on the pp2 unit. Compare that to last year where ADA had 3 minutes per game and Fox had 2 minutes per game and they were fairly deadly in a pp1 and pp2 scenario where they both succeeded.

Gonna have to disagree with you here, Keith. Zibanejad's production was vital to the powerplay. That's not discrediting ADA's production as third on the team with 19 PP points, but Zibanejad led that unit with 27 points of which 15 were goals. Passing means very little if you don't have shooting options. I don't doubt that DeAngelo would get them back into the offensive zone faster, but if his passes end up dying on someone else's stick then what is he really accomplishing?

I'd love to ask who you would trade for him straight up right now, taking into consideration, age, contract etc.? List can't be that long, I'd imagine.

It's not but it exists. Hedman, Carlson, Seth Jones, Shea Theodore, Pieterangelo, MacAvoy, Chabot, Makar, Hughes would all come to mind as being possible swaps I'd consider.

You forgot to mention Fox actually plays defense unlike "the other guy"

He reminds me of Goodey!! He's not big, not physically a tough guy, but has the talent to make guys look foolish!!

He reminds me of Goodey!! He's not big, not physically a tough guy, but has the talent to make guys look foolish!!

I have a game tonight with Goodey.

He made a guy fall down the other night from a move he made.

Well that 2nd unit gets next to no setup time, you know that. First unit is usually around 1:20 of the PP.

 

The Rangers are 10th in the NHL on the PP since 2/14/21, 23% which is pretty effective. There just happen to be some insane PPs this season. with the Canes and Jets over 30% and Oilers and TB just under 30%.

That’s true but they get much less setup because of how crappy it is as well. I’m not trying to rehash the ADA stuff though. He’s done. Just that if he were a normal individual, we would be better with his on ice offensive talent in a pp1/pp2 scenario. When Fox is rolling you use him. When other player is, you use him instead. Or for a diff look both which is rare as you pointed out a while ago.

It's not but it exists. Hedman, Carlson, Seth Jones, Shea Theodore, Pieterangelo, MacAvoy, Chabot, Makar, Hughes would all come to mind as being possible swaps I'd consider.

Makar is maybe the only one on this list for me I would seriously consider 1 for 1. No to Hedman only because of age.

Gonna have to disagree with you here, Keith. Zibanejad's production was vital to the powerplay. That's not discrediting ADA's production as third on the team with 19 PP points, but Zibanejad led that unit with 27 points of which 15 were goals. Passing means very little if you don't have shooting options. I don't doubt that DeAngelo would get them back into the offensive zone faster, but if his passes end up dying on someone else's stick then what is he really accomplishing?

Fair enough. I suppose an argument can be made both ways. Ziby is vital as well obviously but ADA didn’t accidentally be second on the team in pp assists last year either.

Well, that's actually not true but whatever. Guys, like myself, were saying that the pp is going to be less effective when you take away one offensive D option who's entire game is focused around offense. And it still remains true regardless of ADA's shitty start. Slumps dont last foever. We have one of the worst PP right now and Fox averages over 4 minutes pp time per game. It's not exactly Fox' at all fault but Next closest D is Trouba and Miller with under 2 minutes each. I don't think either of them even have a pp point this year which is actualyl difficult to even comprehend since they both are on the pp2 unit. Compare that to last year where ADA had 3 minutes per game and Fox had 2 minutes per game and they were fairly deadly in a pp1 and pp2 scenario where they both succeeded.

ADA PP points per 60 minutes last year: 5.45

Fox PP points per 60 minutes this year: 7.14

Fox has a little higher time because they average 3.66 PPs per game this year compared to 3.24 last year. I'd also argue that Fox gets 'extra' pp time because he's better at keeping the puck in than ADA. Fox is far more efficient with his PP time. The longer PP1 maintains possession, the longer they stay out, the less time PP2 gets.

The PP sucked early in the year because Zib couldn't score. The PP was 10th during the month of March where Zib has shot the puck much better.

Fair enough. I suppose an argument can be made both ways. Ziby is vital as well obviously but ADA didn’t accidentally be second on the team in pp assists last year either.

Agreed. I also do think that having such a poor second unit is hurting them. There really isn’t any structure to that second unit. It unfortunately runs through Trouba who is neither a good playmaker or shooter. Unfortunately there isn’t really a solution there until Lundkvist or Jones are here. I don’t particularly trust the forwards out there at the moment.

Makar is maybe the only one on this list for me I would seriously consider 1 for 1. No to Hedman only because of age.

Makar is a no brainer. Hedman's age wouldn't scare me at all. MacAvoy is to me a non brainer. Everyone else I could see the argument for but in the end agree to giving the edge to Fox. I do think Fox is a top 5 defensive asset(considering age/contract) just not top 5 just judged only on play.

ADA PP points per 60 minutes last year: 5.45

Fox PP points per 60 minutes this year: 7.14

 

Fox has a little higher time because they average 3.66 PPs per game this year compared to 3.24 last year. I'd also argue that Fox gets 'extra' pp time because he's better at keeping the puck in than ADA. Fox is far more efficient with his PP time. The longer PP1 maintains possession, the longer they stay out, the less time PP2 gets.

 

The PP sucked early in the year because Zib couldn't score. The PP was 10th during the month of March where Zib has shot the puck much better.

You're splitting hairs here. Both are good pp players. Having ADA would help as you would have another pp weapon. Kind of pick your pleasure when describing the two's abilities in running a pp. No-one is comparing the two as complete players as there is no comparison. Offensively there is something to compare.