[brooks] Is the Bigger Risk Trading or Paying Buchnevich?

Kreider really does suck ass. Proved it once again tonight

always does against buffalo

always does against buffalo

You'd prefer he not score and they lose?

Kreider really does suck ass. Proved it once again tonight

Let’s have a little bit of levity here though. He has 14 goals this year. More than half (8) of them are in THREE games. He has 3 different four game or more goalless streaks this year in which he has 4 total points combined. In 16 of our 32 games played he’s been held off the s ore sheet totally

He is what he is. He’s either scoring or doing nothing at all. He just doesn’t bring that much more than that so when he’s in those down trending part of his season, he’s just invisible. He’s been slightly better this year in that only once his sobbatical has extended to 6 games.

Let’s have a little bit of levity here though. He has 14 goals this year. More than half (8) of them are in THREE games. He has 3 different four game or more goalless streaks this year in which he has 4 total points combined. In 16 of our 32 games played he’s been held off the s ore sheet totally

 

He is what he is. He’s either scoring or doing nothing at all. He just doesn’t bring that much more than that so when he’s in those down trending part of his season, he’s just invisible. He’s been slightly better this year in that only once his sobbatical has extended to 6 games.

He's actually got 16, and when you have a guy that's streaky, but when he's on, he basically wins you the game by himself, that's pretty damn valuable. Say he doesn't score the hat tricks or the PPGs last night? Don't we lose all of those games?

He leads the division in both goalscoring and PPGs. This is fine.

If you're going to sign a guy for 6.5 million, this is a more than acceptable outcome.

He's actually got 16, and when you have a guy that's streaky, but when he's on, he basically wins you the game by himself, that's pretty damn valuable. Say he doesn't score the hat tricks or the PPGs last night? Don't we lose all of those games?

 

He leads the division in both goalscoring and PPGs. This is fine.

 

If you're going to sign a guy for 6.5 million, this is a more than acceptable outcome.

He has hat tricks in 2 games. That means he's at like a 25 goal pace otherwise.

Last night was his 2nd goal in 10 games.

His issue is always the same. He's streaky end when he goes dark, it's pitch black.

He's arguably the best net front PP guy on the planet. Yes, he has very limited skills, but all this talk about streaky play is just white noise. Ultimately, he produces commensurate with his pay, if not more, in addition to that, he's about to produce a career year after signing his deal. That's very encouraging.

What's the issue?

He's arguably the best net front PP guy on the planet. Yes, he has very limited skills, but all this talk about streaky play is just white noise. Ultimately, he produces commensurate with his pay, if not more, in addition to that, he's about to produce a career year after signing his deal. That's very encouraging.

 

What's the issue?

Narrative is the issue. It's been decided that he's the expensive expendable part and that other younger guys who haven't done shit will be worthy of his contract so he has to go. He is actually having a good year but for some reason his goals need to be minimized. He's on a 40 goal pace for a full season. By any metric he is delivering on his contract

Narrative is the issue. It's been decided that he's the expensive expendable part and that other younger guys who haven't done shit will be worthy of his contract so he has to go. He is actually having a good year but for some reason his goals need to be minimized. He's on a 40 goal pace for a full season. By any metric he is delivering on his contract

That seems overly dramatic. I believe the question is whether, in an ideal world, you'd rather lose Kreider or Buchnevich. Given their respective ages and overall ability that seems like a more than fair question without shitting on Kreider.

That seems overly dramatic. I believe the question is whether, in an ideal world, you'd rather lose Kreider or Buchnevich. Given their respective ages and overall ability that seems like a more than fair question without shitting on Kreider.

That is a fair question. Problem is Kreider has a NMC so he get's a say in that discussion. Also other teams have a cap as well. Just saying trade Kreider is great but it has so many roadblocks to even being remotely possible. Buch has none of those.

It seems people seem to dramatize Kreider's faults because of the cap implications. In a vacuum he's good player that has produced in year 1 upon to what he's been paid.

This is the first year Buch has actually been consistent himself yet consistency is the hammer that bludgeons Kreider.

He's actually got 16, and when you have a guy that's streaky, but when he's on, he basically wins you the game by himself, that's pretty damn valuable. Say he doesn't score the hat tricks or the PPGs last night? Don't we lose all of those games?

 

He leads the division in both goalscoring and PPGs. This is fine.

 

If you're going to sign a guy for 6.5 million, this is a more than acceptable outcome.

Ok 16. So exactly half are from 3 games. Well we did lose one of the games he had a hat trick in against Philly The other was against the Devils. But I do get your point.

If he’s going to lead or be close to leading the league then yeah it’s more than fine. Problem is this year is an anomaly compared to the rest of his career at least.

Well we did lose one of the games he had a hat trick in against Philly The other was against the Devils. But I do get your point.

 

If he’s going to lead or be close to leading the league then yeah it’s more than fine. Problem is this year is an anomaly compared to the rest of his career at least.

This year is really just a continuation of an upwards trajectory over the last 3 years now.

2018-19: 28 goals

2019-20: 32 goal pace

2020-21: 40 goal pace

He is aging like a fine wine.

This year is really just a continuation of an upwards trajectory over the last 3 years now.

 

2018-19: 28 goals

2019-20: 32 goal pace

2020-21: 40 goal pace

 

He is aging like a fine wine.

The nice thing about Kreider is that while speed is a huge part of his game, as he gets older and possibly loses that I dont think it will affect his production since a lot of his points come from in front of the net. At least by the eye test it seems that way. I know he gets one or two nice goals off the rush but I'd argue thats not how he scores most of the time.

That is a fair question. Problem is Kreider has a NMC so he get's a say in that discussion. Also other teams have a cap as well. Just saying trade Kreider is great but it has so many roadblocks to even being remotely possible. Buch has none of those.

 

It seems people seem to dramatize Kreider's faults because of the cap implications. In a vacuum he's good player that has produced in year 1 upon to what he's been paid.

This is the first year Buch has actually been consistent himself yet consistency is the hammer that bludgeons Kreider.

Krieder is 29 and turns 30 in April. Who he is is likely who he is. Players rarely start second, more productive carreers on the other side of 30. His career goals are 17, 21, 21, 28, 16, 28, 24, 16(this year).

Which is more likely? Buch took another step at 25 soon to be 26 and is coming into his potential to be a possible 65-75 point player (he’s pacing nearly 80+ this year in a full season) or Krieder at the age of 29 soon to be 30 took another step to become an elite goal scorer into his 30s?

You can’t look at things in a vacuum without salary cap. Ther never will be a time where that is even remotely relevant to do in this sport and definitely not in a flat cap league.

This year is really just a continuation of an upwards trajectory over the last 3 years now.

 

2018-19: 28 goals

2019-20: 32 goal pace

2020-21: 40 goal pace

 

He is aging like a fine wine.

I’d love nothing more than that to be true. Every Rangers fan would lol. It just rarely ever happens though. Hopefully this is the exception

Krieder is 29 and turns 30 in April. Who he is is likely who he is. Players rarely start second, more productive carreers on the other side of 30. His career goals are 17, 21, 21, 28, 16, 28, 24, 16(this year).

 

Which is more likely? Buch took another step at 25 soon to be 26 and is coming into his potential to be a possible 65-75 point player (he’s pacing nearly 80+ this year in a full season) or Krieder at the age of 29 soon to be 30 took another step to become an elite goal scorer into his 30s?

 

You can’t look at things in a vacuum without salary cap. Ther never will be a time where that is even remotely relevant to do in this sport and definitely not in a flat cap league.

I don't disagree with you about the salary cap. However you arguing a point that in reality probably never matters. Who would you rather keep? The younger/cheaper player is almost always going to be the better option, yet Kreider HAS a contract in which the team forfeited their right to moving him without HIS consent. So while you maybe right that Buch is the better option the option isn't likely to be between Buch and Kreider but Buch and others on the team who don't have NMC's. Every contract handed out, especially those with a NMC has effects on the rest of the roster. When the Rangers signed Buch, nobody at the time was overly concerned with losing Buch.

Kreider more than most is a good bet to keep his standard of play. He is a fitness/workout freak.

The nice thing about Kreider is that while speed is a huge part of his game, as he gets older and possibly loses that I dont think it will affect his production since a lot of his points come from in front of the net. At least by the eye test it seems that way. I know he gets one or two nice goals off the rush but I'd argue thats not how he scores most of the time.

Agreed. I'm not sure I've even seen one of his classic stretch plays up the boards where he goes in on a breakaway from it this year. Maybe I'm just forgetting, but it's pretty promising that he is gotten more and more productive in front of the net.

While it's easy to harp on Kreider when he isn't on the scoresheet for 8-10 game intervals here and there, that never accounts for the stuff that doesn't show up on a scoresheet. The amount of screening he does is awesome. It has led to countless goals.

The annoying thing with Kreider is the penalties sometimes. Strome was terrible with the bad penalties the last 2 years with us, and has really curbed that this year. It would be nice to see the same out of Kreider.

Kreider hasnt had a penalty since February 18th

Yes. It's not surprising they have declined of late. The game after that one is when he started going on fire, because he started moving his feet more. He had 7 minor penalties in the first 15 games.

I don't disagree with you about the salary cap. However you arguing a point that in reality probably never matters. Who would you rather keep? The younger/cheaper player is almost always going to be the better option, yet Kreider HAS a contract in which the team forfeited their right to moving him without HIS consent. So while you maybe right that Buch is the better option the option isn't likely to be between Buch and Kreider but Buch and others on the team who don't have NMC's. Every contract handed out, especially those with a NMC has effects on the rest of the roster. When the Rangers signed Buch, nobody at the time was overly concerned with losing Buch.

 

Kreider more than most is a good bet to keep his standard of play. He is a fitness/workout freak.

You’re preaching to the choir about the cap stuff. I was just replying because u said vacuum.

As for the fitness freak stuff, I think that’s fairl irrelevant. Most, if not all, of these guy train 12 months a year. He’s not doing anything most others dont also do sans Phil Kessel. It’s 2021. Not saying he can’t be like Chara or Jags and play forever but he’s already missed games with neck injuries, blood clot, broken hand, broken foot so he’s had an injury or two along the way. Some just bad luck of course but still.

I’d love nothing more than that to be true. Every Rangers fan would lol. It just rarely ever happens though. Hopefully this is the exception

He's seemingly accepted the fact that he's the "Elder Statesman" of the team. The shit he does at the end of games by being the last off the ice, and giving those "appreciation" taps on the butt to the kids, the hugs to Zibby and Georgiev, gives me the feeling that these guys genuinely LIKE each other, which is great, but Kreider has really taken a responsibility to being "Papa CK".

I really kinda like that for him. It's showing in his game too. He's cut down on his penalties (especially his BAD penalties), as Josh stated, but there's a different feel about him this season; It's like he's trying to serve as the example.

Yes, no doubt he's streakier than a 20 year old window with 2 squirts of Windex, but he's still been a threat while, as Pete said, "going dark". He's still noticeable, he can play a hard game, tougher than Buch right now, and as long as he's somewhat relevant during those stretches, I can live with it.

The issue is really that I believe Buchnevich can do all the things Kreider can, and some things he can't...and it may come down to the fact that we have a NMC that ultimately sends Buch packing. I'm very curious to see how this one plays out, and I'll tell you what....I'm glad I don't have to make this call...Not this year!!! ;)

I wanted to deal Kreider last year, and almost broke a blood vessel in my head when they resigned him for that contract!!! I was so down on him, and I have to say this season I'm very surprised at his performance. I still don't like that NMC on that deal, and I think that's the issue I have with it. I also think Buch would be the ultimate piece that brings that "Eichel type" player back our way, which we're going to need to contend very soon.

This year is really just a continuation of an upwards trajectory over the last 3 years now.

 

2018-19: 28 goals

2019-20: 32 goal pace

2020-21: 40 goal pace

 

He is aging like a fine wine.

The thing about Kreider is that you can't talk about pace. Because he either gets hurt, or just disappears.

Again, if you take out the 2 hat tricks, over the rest of the games played he's at a 25 goal pace. He has 2 goals in his last 10.

He's just so unreliable game to game. You can count on 25 goals from him and you can also count on him to have a stretch of 10G without a goal.

Part of the problem with the rangers is inconsistency which is due mostly to their age.

Look at the teams that won or make deep runs. They all have mostly older lineups who have been through the shit. Kreider is on a great contract for what he brings: goals and leadership. He’s one of the best power forwards in the game and one of the best in front of the net - if not the best. Rangers made a statement last year by resigning him. A statement which said “the tearing down of this team is now over.”

Buch has to be resigned. Similar to Kreider he won’t cost much and can be that bargain barrel first liner or above average 2nd liner if Kakko or Kravstov eventually overtake him.

I feel like we as fans are so used to selling players at this point we’ve come to expect anyone of value to go when their contract is up. We expect anyone over 27 to be washed up. I mean look at Zucc this year. Guy is still fucking awesome at 33. We have to accept that “old” doesn’t mean bad. And if Buch and Mika and Kreider stay with the organization past 30, it’s a good thing - not bad.

The thing about Kreider is that you can't talk about pace. Because he either gets hurt, or just disappears.

 

Again, if you take out the 2 hat tricks, over the rest of the games played he's at a 25 goal pace. He has 2 goals in his last 10.

 

He's just so unreliable game to game. You can count on 25 goals from him and you can also count on him to have a stretch of 10G without a goal.

Conversely, if you added 9 more hat tricks he'd be on 114 goal pace.

The dude has warts, just like 98% of the other guys in the league. If he was scoring every night and playing like wrecking ball every night, he'd be making McDavid money, not half that.. We can quibble about his effectiveness, but he's been earning hsis check.