Fire DQ, Hire Brucey B, ????, Profit!!!

He's playing 13-17 minutes a night and has, functionally, zero goals and zero assists. I don't see how that's on the coach.

 

He's produced nothing.

 

I'd counter that the only reason he's getting as much time as he is, is because of where he was picked.

 

It's mildly concerning, and if we get to 30 games and he's still done nothing it's actually concerning, 50 and it's a disaster. We can build all the crutches we want, ultimately he has to produce, and has to show something.

Looks like as with Kakko LAF is scared to death to make a mistake.

 

Duguay had Bossy on his podcast a few weeks ago. Said he was totally terrified in his first camp of Al Arbour. And one day Arbour pulled him aside and said, look kid, they took you that high to be a serious offensive threat, to score goals. Go play your game and don't worry about anything else. And he barely spoke to Arbour the rest of the season. Having a great HoF center (if lousy head coach in later life) didn't hurt. But get the sense these kids are scared shitless to make a mistake under Quinn rather than being encouraged. Frankly the utter bullshit of benching Lemieux and ADA (without going into all of that all over again) cement that. Yes, play defense , but for fvck's sake let these kids play and trust them to do stuff.

 

As to strategy, night after night these team not only falls behind and lets up, but then shows no aggression, no sense of urgency. Down 2 goals with and empty net last might still passing around the perimeter. What did they even talk about during the timeout?

 

If there is going to be any change it would be during the 3 day break next week. Otherwise not sure how you do it with this schedule.

 

If you don't want to get into ADA again why do you bring it up? Now it needs to be corrected.

 

It wasn't a BS benching and it wasn't for one specific thing. It was cumulative.

 

And also laughable to think that would make Laf afraid to make a mistake, as if he doesn't pay attention to the league and know who ADA is.

Looks like as with Kakko LAF is scared to death to make a mistake.

D

 

This

Kakko said on some Finnish podcast this past summer that by the end of last season he had no idea what the coach wanted from him. They had told him not to do so many things that he wasn't sure what was allowed.

 

I'm sure there's a bit of that for Lafreniere. And frankly, I know the coaches want them to be defensively responsible, but they didn't draft these kids for their defense. They need confidence and the only way they get that is by scoring goals.

not in response to you 31 I was typing this while you posted -

 

To me that speaks more about the player than anything else at this stage in his career. Comparing his situation (or anyone else's to ADA is comparing apples to oranges). If he's afraid to make mistakes the last thing he should do is play up the lineup as well. Not saying he's a bust or that he won't be something special down the road but he's not shown anything close to that in his for 14 or so games and I don't think any of us expected to see him struggle this bad or be invisible. Just so many games where he's just there along with many others.

Kakko said on some Finnish podcast this past summer that by the end of last season he had no idea what the coach wanted from him. They had told him not to do so many things that he wasn't sure what was allowed.

 

I'm sure there's a bit of that for Lafreniere. And frankly, I know the coaches want them to be defensively responsible, but they didn't draft these kids for their defense. They need confidence and the only way they get that is by scoring goals.

That's not exactly what was said.

 

Kakko in May 2020, on a Finnish podcast: “Towards the end of the season I didn’t really try anything special because if I tried something, then coach said Don’t do this and don’t do that”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/bluelinestation.com/2021/02/07/new-york-rangers-mondays-goalie-kakkos-improvement-schedule/amp/

 

Kakko was STATISTICALLY the worst forward in the NHL at the end of last year. If he was "trying things", I don't blame them for telling him to keep his game simple. He'd been "trying things" for the whole season, and nothing was working because of the reasons already discussed (strength and footspeed).

That's not exactly what was said.

 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/bluelinestation.com/2021/02/07/new-york-rangers-mondays-goalie-kakkos-improvement-schedule/amp/

 

Kakko was STATISTICALLY the worst forward in the NHL at the end of last year. If he was "trying things", I don't blame them for telling him to keep his game simple. He'd been "trying things" for the whole season, and nothing was working because of the reasons already discussed (strength and footspeed).

 

I think there's this weird perversion for hockey coaches to want to know better than everyone else. If the player is an offensive dynamo, they want them to play defense. Yes, defense wins championships but most 1 and 2 OA are not on championship caliber teams. Let them just do whatever it is they do so they can get confidence at the NHL level before you start molding them into a penalty killer.

 

Kakko was an offensive freak against NHL players the summer before he got drafted. I don't know why there's this "hey you're in the NHL now kid, time to do it my way" attitude. I think that Kakko quote is pretty damning. He's saying he didn't play his game. He's saying he didn't try things because he'd get benched for it. Like scoring twice and getting benched in the 3rd for taking a penalty.

 

I can all but guarantee this is happening with Lafreniere. He's being taught how to play defense, which is fine I guess, but that's not what the Rangers need him to do.

 

And yes, Kakko looked 10x better than he did last season, so maybe this form of development is fine. But it's frustrating as fuck to watch.

I think there's this weird perversion for hockey coaches to want to know better than everyone else. If the player is an offensive dynamo, they want them to play defense. Yes, defense wins championships but most 1 and 2 OA are not on championship caliber teams. Let them just do whatever it is they do so they can get confidence at the NHL level before you start molding them into a penalty killer.

 

Kakko was an offensive freak against NHL players the summer before he got drafted. I don't know why there's this "hey you're in the NHL now kid, time to do it my way" attitude. I think that Kakko quote is pretty damning. He's saying he didn't play his game. He's saying he didn't try things because he'd get benched for it. Like scoring twice and getting benched in the 3rd for taking a penalty.

 

I can all but guarantee this is happening with Lafreniere. He's being taught how to play defense, which is fine I guess, but that's not what the Rangers need him to do.

 

And yes, Kakko looked 10x better than he did last season, so maybe this form of development is fine. But it's frustrating as fuck to watch.

 

At this point I can't even pretend to know what Quinn is or isn't telling Laf (or Kakko) to do. I said this earlier, but it looks like because there is no system, the game is harder. They don't know where to be, or where the puck should go next, and that's more crippling for a young player than a vet.

 

RE: Kakko being an offensive freak against NHLers, I don't know what that reference is. Worlds? His stat line was OK but I don't remember him being particularly dominant. I could be wrong, and again that's on big ice. His problem was running out of room on smaller NA ice.

 

Anyway, Quinn track record with rookies is so mixed, it's tough to say. He digs his own grave with enough shit, I can't sit here and have an honest conversation where he gets blamed for Laf. He's put Laf in every possible position to succeed...Top line with talented players (but against tougher D), lower lines against lesser D (but also lesser linemates), PP time, Quinn is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't there with fans...Then moved up with Panarin out and Laf still didn't do anything of note.

 

For a player touted with a high hockey IQ and compete level, this is concerning and it isn't all on Quinn. He's just not doing simple things like keeping his feel moving, when the puck comes to him he can't even make a play since he's flat footed. These are fundamentals. Maybe the entire team needs to get back to them? Who knows.

He pulled a Petr Prucha for a week in a tournament. One assist. In a piss up tournament where everybody goes for a good time. It's almost completely irrelevant.

 

He looked fantastic yesterday, though, so there's certainly a bit of shine back on the player.

If this crap play continues and the season is deemed a bust.. Do we send kids to Hartford? Or to Europe?

 

The Ol' "Losing environment" could prove detrimental to kids like Lafreniere, Kakko, Miller and who ever else?

 

They're not scoring. They're not contributing. They obviously lack confidence. This gives the Rangers a look at their players under a different coach.

If this crap play continues and the season is deemed a bust.. Do we send kids to Hartford? Or to Europe?

 

The Ol' "Losing environment" could prove detrimental to kids like Lafreniere, Kakko, Miller and who ever else?

 

They're not scoring. They're not contributing. They obviously lack confidence. This gives the Rangers a look at their players under a different coach.

 

1) This season is a wash

2) they’re not going anywhere.

I just can't shake the feeling that it's a bit too much of a coincidence that this happens to two 100% consensus high draft picks two years in a row. Two very different individuals with very different hockey backgrounds.

 

I mean, I was willing to accept there's a chance the hockey world got a bit too excited about Kakko and his NHL readiness when he did so well at the worlds. But now we have a kid who's been talked about for years, who's coming off one of the best junior careers of all time and he's on the exact same trajectory.

It appears incredibly unlikely that the stars have aligned to make sure that absolute slam dunk #2 and #1 picks in consecutive years are "busts" (I don't think either are, fwiw) at the exact time they were picked by the Rangers and got to work under David Quinn and his coaching staff.

 

I don't agree that Lafreniere looks disinterested. He's working hard. But he looks lost and completely devoid of confidence. I'm not seeing anything that resembles his junior tape. Where's the playmaker that would try every audacious pass in the book? Where's the guy who carried his team and dominated games? Where's the confidence? He doesn't even think about taking on a guy with the puck on his stick. It's the easiest, safest pass, it's dumping the puck at the first opportunity. This is a kid who's captained every team he's been on since he was 5. He's probably taken 500 games by the scruff of the neck. Now he's playing within himself and is tentative. Something is clearly not the way it should be. Exactly the way Kakko was in his first year.

 

I'm not saying everything is on DQ and, obviously, you're responsible for your own career as a pro. But two kids, in consecutive years? It would seem unwise not to ask what it is we're doing wrong. Because it seems clear to me that it's at least partly down to how we're handling these kids.

I think Lafreniere has also just suffered from the total lack of puck luck this team has had on offense all year. He himself was just missing goals earlier on and he's even had some sweet setups where his teammates just didn't finish. He's been a victim of that too. Overall we're still seeing the same bad habits that started to manifest in that Carolina playoff series. That's not good. Plus, Gravesy makes good points about this being the second really good prospect in a row. Everything is not on Quinn, and I'm not really worried about either of their careers, but at the same time, you don't really want too much damage to be done to their confidence so early, you know?

If this crap play continues and the season is deemed a bust.. Do we send kids to Hartford? Or to Europe?

 

The Ol' "Losing environment" could prove detrimental to kids like Lafreniere, Kakko, Miller and who ever else?

 

They're not scoring. They're not contributing. They obviously lack confidence. This gives the Rangers a look at their players under a different coach.

 

Just by the basis of being top picks, pretty much every high pick starts off in a losing situation early in their career.

I think there's this weird perversion for hockey coaches to want to know better than everyone else. If the player is an offensive dynamo, they want them to play defense. Yes, defense wins championships but most 1 and 2 OA are not on championship caliber teams. Let them just do whatever it is they do so they can get confidence at the NHL level before you start molding them into a penalty killer.

 

Kakko was an offensive freak against NHL players the summer before he got drafted. I don't know why there's this "hey you're in the NHL now kid, time to do it my way" attitude. I think that Kakko quote is pretty damning. He's saying he didn't play his game. He's saying he didn't try things because he'd get benched for it. Like scoring twice and getting benched in the 3rd for taking a penalty.

 

I can all but guarantee this is happening with Lafreniere. He's being taught how to play defense, which is fine I guess, but that's not what the Rangers need him to do.

 

And yes, Kakko looked 10x better than he did last season, so maybe this form of development is fine. But it's frustrating as fuck to watch.

 

This how I've felt for years. I don't know the validity of such an opinion, but it always seems that Ranger coaches focus more on what young players DONT DO well, rather than utilizing what they actually DO- DO well.

 

Like making an offensive style player "work his way up" from the 4th line playing with garbage players, is a fair assessment of their capabilities. And if they show anything of a selfish nature, like carrying the puck and dangling/ doing everything themselves due to being surrounded by shit... They get scalded for it.

 

Some players are well rounded. Others aren't. What happens and who decides which players can get a pass, while others don't? I mean is Panarin a complete 200' game player? I don't think so. But I'd rather 9 Panarins over a Mish mosh of decent 2 way players with average offensive ability. Use what you have. Don't try to remold every player into something they weren't drafted as.

 

Let Kakko take chances. Let him carry the puck like a brainless Kovalev. Let Lafreniere do what he was drafted as. Give these kids the damn keys.

1) This season is a wash

2) they’re not going anywhere.

 

But are we wasting ELC contract time on this washed season? Send em down . They aren't learning anything from this coach. That locker room must be like a frikken morgue. Bring the young core together in the A and under a different coach and see if they create their own culture.

Just by the basis of being top picks, pretty much every high pick starts off in a losing situation early in their career.

 

Yet, they come in and are THE go to guys and are allowed to make mistakes.

 

There's a difference between a losing situation and a losing environment. This team should be way better than what their record is and much better than what the eye test has shown.

 

There's no energy in anything they do. Shestyorkin showed a little bit of that energy in the latest loss. Miller was showing it in most games prior to his injury. Fox had some poise. Lemieux is a sparkplug that doesn't spark this bunch of lifeless players..

But are we wasting ELC contract time on this washed season? Send em down . They aren't learning anything from this coach. That locker room must be like a frikken morgue. Bring the young core together in the A and under a different coach and see if they create their own culture.

 

Laff is not AHL eligible iirc.

First things first. This Rangers mess — the overall record and the throwup that was Tuesday’s 5-2 loss to the Devils — falls at the feet of the head coach and his staff.

 

It simmers on the bench during the game, between periods, and boils after the game, into the night and the following morning, through meetings, through video sessions, through practice … and even through media Zooms.

 

If David Quinn could have prevented what happened on the Garden ice Tuesday — a putrid effort resulting in a putrid performance — he would have. But he couldn’t and didn’t, and that lands on him.

 

Second, let’s stop the talk of a coaching change after 14 games. This isn’t George Steinbrenner. This isn’t stupidity-and-panic time, which I think a change would be. If the record were 1-13-0, and if Tuesday’s game was a typical one for the first quarter of this 56-game season, then, yeah, perhaps that’d be enough already.

 

But it wasn’t typical. That doesn’t make it any more or less acceptable. But the Mission Statement here is clear and should remain so, and I’m sure Rangers president John Davidson and general manager Jeff Gorton understand that. This year isn’t a championship-or-bust season. It’s not even a playoffs-or-bust season, simply because it can’t be. No, 2021 is a season about development more than any of the two previous rebuilding seasons, because now some of the kids are here, and more will be arriving in a bit, and the eye has to remain trained on that.

 

Thus there is no reason to fire the teacher that Quinn is and has been since he arrived. Has he been perfect? Absolutely not. Have kids developed? There is no question that they have. Kaapo Kakko, Adam Fox, Ryan Lindgren, K’Andre Miller, even Julien Gauthier has come along lately, and just as recently Libor H?jek. Alexis Lafreni?re lags behind, but you’d have to be blind to think he hasn’t learned a lot of lessons for a teenager. You can stretch it further to Pavel Buchnevich and the player he has become, and Tony DeAngelo, even, at least as a player and despite the baggage that got him booted off the team.

“As a coach, you always feel like it’s on you,” Quinn said. “It’s just a sickening, sickening feeling. Unless you’ve been coaching, it’s hard to explain. The hard part of this profession is when things go well, you don’t think you have much to do with it, and when things go bad, you think you have everything to do with it. That’s certainly how I felt last night, personally.

 

“The thing that you’ve got to keep in mind: You know, you’re sitting here, and you’re going over the schedule, and when you look, it was such an outlier (Tuesday) night. And, listen, I know what our record is. I know what our record is. Nobody’s happy with it. But effort hasn’t been our problem. Competing hasn’t been our problem. And it was (Tuesday), and it was an outlier. Obviously, we were all pissed off last night — no one more than I was. You’ve got to let the dust settle. We’ve got to corral our emotions here, and we’ve got to move past and make sure that it doesn’t happen again.

Quinn was asked if Zibanejad’s and Chris Kreider’s veteran status gives them more leeway in terms of being demoted, as Buchnevich was Tuesday.

 

“No. They’ve run out of that veteran-status ticket that they’ve had,” Quinn said. “I have liked part … we all talked about Mika’s game after the first Bruins game. There certainly was a lot more of what the Mika Zibanejad we know we’re going to need. I thought Chris was more physical (Tuesday). Listen, we’ve talked about it an awful lot the first part of the season here. We need a little bit more out of everybody, not just certain guys. Those two guys are certainly a part of that, and they know that and no one’s working harder to get out of it than those two guys. So it’s not for the lack of caring or effort. Sometimes you can get in your own way, and sometimes it happens at this level.”

“Teams are expecting us to make that extra pass because we can do it,” Strome said. “But when things aren’t going well you need to simplify. I think oftentimes the answer is a lot more simple than we think.”

 

That’s how the Devils piled up their victory on the Rangers, despite having not played the previous 15 days and practiced once. They got some bounces, for sure. But even there lies a lesson.

 

“Puck luck is a byproduct of doing the right things over and over again,” Quinn said. “It’s getting inside, throwing pucks — I mean look at the two goals (the Devils) scored. The second and third goals. They’re throwing a puck from the corner towards the net, it goes off of us and goes in. They get a puck to the right point, there’s no hesitation. They wrist it to the net, they tip it, it goes in. We don’t do that enough. You do that 20-25 times in a game and you’re going to get a ‘lucky’ bounce. That’s not luck. That’s a byproduct of keeping it simple and doing those types of things that allow you to get that ‘lucky bounce.’ We’ve got to incorporate that more into our game. Too often we want to pass the puck into the net. In this day and age, you’ve got to get inside and you’ve got to understand when it’s time to be simple and throw pucks and have people there where you will get those bounces and when it is time to make plays. We’re still fighting that.”

 

https://theathletic.com/2394862/2021/02/17/new-york-rangers-david-quinn/?source=dailyemail

https://theathletic.com/2394862/2021/02/17/new-york-rangers-david-quinn/?source=dailyemail

 

Quinn and the Rangers were dealt another big blow Tuesday into Wednesday when it was announced that Jacob Trouba — their alternate captain, a rising leadership figure, and first-pair defenseman — will be out four to six weeks with a broken thumb he suffered in the second period.

 

Is Carp doing shrooms?

Is Carp doing shrooms?

 

What part of that is untrue? He's an alternate captain - that's evident. He's a rising leadership figure - there's been quite a bit on his mentorship of K'Andre Miller among others. He's one of our first pair defenseman.

 

Seems on point.

What part of that is untrue? He's an alternate captain - that's evident. He's a rising leadership figure - there's been quite a bit on his mentorship of K'Andre Miller among others. He's one of our first pair defenseman.

 

Seems on point.

 

If hes a leader and a first pair defenseman then this team is in a lot of trouble

If hes a leader and a first pair defenseman then this team is in a lot of trouble

 

Out of all the things in that article, you're hung up on the way they described Trouba? :confused: :lol:

Out of all the things in that article, you're hung up on the way they described Trouba? :confused: :lol:

 

Because everything else is pretty spot on lol.. sad but spot on.

Because everything else is pretty spot on lol.. sad but spot on.

 

Hear you. He's at best a 2nd pair guy, overpaid by about $3M.

 

But, moving on....