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Thread: Trump Mulling Options to Preemptively Pardon Himself, Family, Supporters

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    Trump Mulling Options to Preemptively Pardon Himself, Family, Supporters

    Five days after President Trump pardoned his former national security adviser Michael Flynn, Fox News host and Trump ally Sean Hannity offered a suggestion on Monday about whom the president should pardon next: himself and his family.

    “The president out the door needs to pardon his whole family and himself,” Hannity said on his radio show. “… I assume that the power of the pardon is absolute, and that he should be able to pardon anybody that he wants to.”

    During an interview with Trump advocate Sidney Powell, Hannity brought up a recent opinion article in the New York Times from Andrew Weissmann, a lead prosecutor in the investigation led by former special counsel Robert S. Mueller III. The op-ed called for President-elect Joe Biden’s attorney general to “investigate Mr. Trump and, if warranted, prosecute him for potential federal crimes,” Weissmann wrote.
    “They want this witch hunt to go on in perpetuity,” he said, referring to Biden and his advisers. “They’re so full of rage and insanity against the president.”
    Despite Hannity’s suggestion, it is unclear whether a president has the power to pardon himself. Asha Rangappa, a senior lecturer at Yale and a former FBI agent, wrote in The Washington Post that the move would be risky given that there has been no precedent. And by pardoning himself, Trump would essentially be admitting he was guilty of one or many crimes, according to an analysis in The Post.

    The nearest example would be President Richard Nixon, whose lawyers suggested he self-pardon in 1974. In response, the Justice Department issued a memorandum opinion to the deputy attorney general stating that the president’s pardoning power couldn’t be applied to himself. President Gerald R. Ford ultimately pardoned Nixon following his resignation.
    Additionally, a president can’t use his executive powers for corrupt purposes, such as making decisions that would enrich or benefit himself and his family. If Trump pardons himself and his family, the action could fall under those categories, [Mark] Greenberg said.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...p-self-pardon/

    --

    This has since expanded into additional stories regarding pardon power, including a report this morning that Giuliani is said to have discussed a pardon with Trump as well as a slew of opinion pieces like this one, questioning whether or not a President can actaully pardon him or herself.

    Graig Graziosi's piece in The Independent, I thought, raised the most important question here, which is not if a President can pardon him or herself, but, as Graziosi puts it "with so many other unprecedented issues during the Trump administration," who is going to stop him?
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    Pardoning one's self seems ridiculous to me especially since it implies guilt in some form or other. Blank pardon for past-current-future actions also seems like a stretch. Will Trump consider pardons for Bannon's call for 'heads on pikes' ( I think he was the one who said that) and the most recent Trump attorney calling for the killing of Krebs? Who will hold those comments accountable? Next, it will be ok to yell, "Fire!" in a movie theater because you know, nobody really means it.

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    So, Hannity is admitting that Trump and his family are criminals?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    So, Hannity is admitting that Trump and his family are criminals?
    Unintentionally, yes. In the same way that Trump, by pardoning himself and his family, would also be unintentionally admitting his/their own guilt.
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    He will spin it as he usually does. Something along the lines of - I didn’t do anything wrong but the corrupt mob will find a way so I need to protect myself
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    Biden has said multiple times he's not going to go after Trump because it would set a bad precedent and create more divide. What happens in NY is up to the state, not the federal government, so Hannity's claim that Biden's blood lust for Trump is "full of rage and insanity" is so incorrect it's almost sad.
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    Biden has said he doesn't want to go after Trump, yes, but he's also indicated he intends to nominate an AG who will operate independently, not as an extension of his own vindictiveness. It's entirely possible that said AG will prosecute Trump barring the outcome of these pardons and their legal veracity, regardless of Biden's desires. It's also even more likely that Letisha James and Cy Vance will prosecute Trump at the State level for alleged fraud in his business dealings.
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    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If you’re a good loser, you’re a loser."
    - John Tortorella


    "Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence."
    - Christopher Hitchens

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    Biden has said he doesn't want to go after Trump, yes, but he's also indicated he intends to nominate an AG who will operate independently, not as an extension of his own vindictiveness. It's entirely possible that said AG will prosecute Trump barring the outcome of these pardons and their legal veracity, regardless of Biden's desires. It's also even more likely that Letisha James and Cy Vance will prosecute Trump at the State level for alleged fraud in his business dealings.
    Right. I'm just saying this attempt to paint Biden as a bloodthirsty maniac hell bent on revenge is about as transparent as a window pane. I can't imagine many people are buying it at this point.
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    People are definitely buying, that’s the scary part
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    At least Lou Holtz will have his medal of freedom. There's that.

    Maybe the same people that are buying into that as well.
    Last edited by jsrangers; 12-02-2020 at 01:18 PM.

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    New York AG Predicts Trump Will Step Down, Allow Pence to Pardon Him

    "He can preemptively pardon individuals, and the vast majority of legal scholars have indicated that he cannot pardon himself," James said during an appearance on ABC's "The View." "What he could do is step down and allow the vice president — Vice President Pence — to pardon him."

    "I suspect at some point in time he will step down and allow the vice president to pardon him," she added later.
    The hypothetical scenario James predicted was laid out in a 1974 Department of Justice memo that stated former President Nixon "cannot pardon himself."

    "If under the Twenty-Fifth Amendment the President declared that he was temporarily unable to perform the duties of the office, the Vice President would become Acting President and as such could pardon the President. Thereafter the President could either resign or resume the duties of his office," read the memo.

    Trump can pardon individuals for federal crimes, but he cannot pardon state crimes, James noted.
    https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...wn-allow-pence
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    How can how does a preemptive pardon work? Trump hasn't been charged with anything, so does Pence just say that he can never be charged with anything for the rest of his life?

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    if the democrats continue there crusade it will open up a very bad precedent in the future. Biden should worry about healing the divide that's tearing apart this nation. Going after trump will only inflame the right (70 million did vote trump) Democrats should take this victory as a lesson well learned on what they ignored in 2016 (the rust belt) which allowed a 4 year trump administration.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slobberknocker View Post
    if the democrats continue there crusade it will open up a very bad precedent in the future. Biden should worry about healing the divide that's tearing apart this nation. Going after trump will only inflame the right (70 million did vote trump) Democrats should take this victory as a lesson well learned on what they ignored in 2016 (the rust belt) which allowed a 4 year trump administration.
    Biden, or the Dems, aren't going to be the one who goes after him. It'll be the SDNY who does it, if he broke laws.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    How can how does a preemptive pardon work? Trump hasn't been charged with anything, so does Pence just say that he can never be charged with anything for the rest of his life?
    I believe that the pardons have to be specific as to time period and connected illegal activities must be completed at the time the pardon takes place. Pardons can not protect future actions. The actions do not have to be known or charged yet.

    A case challenging Ford's pardon of Nixon, which was upheld by the courts, quotes Alexander Hamilton:

    In The Federalist No. 74, written in 1788 in support of the proposed Constitution, Alexander Hamilton explained why the Founding Fathers gave the President a discretionary power to pardon: "The principal argument for reposing the power of pardoning . . . [in] the Chief Magistrate," Hamilton wrote, "is this: in seasons of insurrection or rebellion, there are often critical moments, when a well-timed offer of pardon to the insurgents or rebels may restore the tranquillity of the commonwealth; and which, if suffered to pass unimproved, it may never be possible afterwards to recall."
    This same logic could apply to Trump.

    Here is the scope of Ford's pardon of Nixon:

    ...do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9,1974.
    So the pardon was a blanket covering all 5 and a half years of Nixon's Presidency, from inauguration day through the day after he resigned his office. If it was later determined and admitted to that Nixon shot a baby in the face on January 21, 1969, he could not be charged Federally, although he could be charged with state crimes.
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    *bump*

    So, 15 people enjoyed the benevolent hand of Trump. Not one person in the bunch qualified (IMO) for leniency, righting a justice wrong or compassionate use. Law and order president? Right.

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    Day 2 Pardon Palooza, we're rolling now. At least they didn't slaughter what 17 innocent people.

    Last edited by jsrangers; 12-23-2020 at 09:15 PM.

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    From cnn ;Trump administration is reportedly considering giving Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman legally immunity over alleged assignation plot of journalist Jamal Khashoggi


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