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Thread: NHL Lays Out Vision for 2021 Season in Private Call; Talks of January 13th Start Date

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    Quote Originally Posted by NYR2711 View Post
    The problem is that the “act of god” was happening when they signed onto this. They knew then what was going on. It would be like if you booked something at the beginning of the year and it was cancelled because of the pandemic and you got your money back. You can’t book it again for now, and then say you want all your money back because the pandemic is still going on, that was the decision you made knowing things weren’t getting better and knowing that there was a second round coming.
    Fine.
    Then no hockey season.



    See how that works?

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    Covid is a true act of god. This isn’t a “We made a bad marketing decision with the red wings retro jersey now we can’t pay”

    It’s, “because of this ‘act of god’ (continuance/up tick in covid, Canada and covid,no fans, travel restrictions, etc), our finances are not, and will not be strong enough to put out a profitable product.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    Covid is a true act of god. This isn’t a “We made a bad marketing decision with the red wings retro jersey now we can’t pay”

    It’s, “because of this ‘act of god’ (continuance/up tick in covid, Canada and covid,no fans, travel restrictions, etc), our finances are not, and will not be strong enough to put out a profitable product.”
    I get what your saying, but how many times can you use it as an excuse. This isn’t a deal they struck in April, they were in the thick of the pandemic. They knew it was bad and going to remain bad for a while, everyone knew this. They planned poorly and now is the fans have to suffer. The real issue is what does this do to the CBA? Does the owners breach in the deal nullify it? That is the main issue here because COVID isn’t going away anytime soon, and we could even see all of this lasting through the end of next year. Cuomo, not that I believe what he says, did say today that things could start turning around by September of 2021.

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    To me, the utmost importance is the sport first. While the owners face some blame, you can’t get blood from a stone. I’m not sure where we go from here but I’m not so sure everyone really saw the big picture that this upcoming season would be this impacted. We are in uncharted territory. I’m not so sure it’s in the sports best interest for the players to go Goodfellas style and say “fuck you pay me”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keirik View Post
    To me, the utmost importance is the sport first. While the owners face some blame, you can’t get blood from a stone. I’m not sure where we go from here but I’m not so sure everyone really saw the big picture that this upcoming season would be this impacted. We are in uncharted territory. I’m not so sure it’s in the sports best interest for the players to go Goodfellas style and say “fuck you pay me”
    But in the same sense, you can't have the owners saying we want almost 50% of your salary or there is no season. When the teams were laying people off, a lot of the player came in and donated money to those workers, not the owners. The owners don't seem to give a shit in overcharging fans when he team is playing like shit. I get that things are bad, but this should have been thought about 4 months ago when they negotiated this deal.

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    FYI the US TV contract is up this season. If they don't play at all you might see a similar situation in 2005 where national games are played on some "unknown" network like OLN.
    Rangers are not committed to winning. It's an old boys club.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NYR2711 View Post
    But in the same sense, you can't have the owners saying we want almost 50% of your salary or there is no season.
    Saying that is not so unreasonable when revenues are going to be down by more than 50%. I just can't see how the NHL can have a season with no gate revenue. It's not like the other sports.

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    All i know is that they better figure this out and asap. With things closing at earlier times than usual and people staying home at much higher rates, this is also an opportunity to bring in newer fans that might otherwise now have tuned in.

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    Brian Burke had a ton to say on this on Hockey Central at Noon yesterday. I paraphrased a bunch of it here:

    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If you’re a good loser, you’re a loser."
    - John Tortorella


    "Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence."
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYR2711 View Post
    But in the same sense, you can't have the owners saying we want almost 50% of your salary or there is no season. When the teams were laying people off, a lot of the player came in and donated money to those workers, not the owners. The owners don't seem to give a shit in overcharging fans when he team is playing like shit. I get that things are bad, but this should have been thought about 4 months ago when they negotiated this deal.
    I guess it depends on how you define a lot. Less than 1% maybe?

    I also think Brian Burke nailed it down pretty good. It's about sharing the losses in an extraordinary circumstance. I don't think anybody envisioned having record deaths yesterday back when this deal was signed. If the players don't want to adjust that's fine but I certainly don't think the owners need to accommodate them and have a season. Choose your poison.

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    NHLPA Discussing options with lawyers if the owners cancel the season. https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/20...cancels-season


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    Quote Originally Posted by jsrangers View Post
    I guess it depends on how you define a lot. Less than 1% maybe?

    I also think Brian Burke nailed it down pretty good. It's about sharing the losses in an extraordinary circumstance. I don't think anybody envisioned having record deaths yesterday back when this deal was signed. If the players don't want to adjust that's fine but I certainly don't think the owners need to accommodate them and have a season. Choose your poison.
    The problem is that the players did concede part of their salaries ale=ready in the deal 4 months ago. Its pretty ignorant to say that 4 months ago we didn't think it would still be bad. They warned us that a second wave was coming. We've heard it will be bad until a vaccine was out, which is still months away from being given out to a large number of people. Players have given up more than the owners. They locked themselves down without their families for months, they risked playing and getting sick, they gave back part of their salary, they donated to people working with the team that were laid off, but what have the owners given up? For some reason, it always falls on the players when the owners threaten to cancel a season. I mean, what are the safety precautions they are going too take for the players? Is it going to be a bubble type thing again where player are kept away from their families for months? If so, that a huge thing the players are giving up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NYR2711 View Post
    The problem is that the players did concede part of their salaries ale=ready in the deal 4 months ago. Its pretty ignorant to say that 4 months ago we didn't think it would still be bad. They warned us that a second wave was coming. We've heard it will be bad until a vaccine was out, which is still months away from being given out to a large number of people. Players have given up more than the owners. They locked themselves down without their families for months, they risked playing and getting sick, they gave back part of their salary, they donated to people working with the team that were laid off, but what have the owners given up? For some reason, it always falls on the players when the owners threaten to cancel a season. I mean, what are the safety precautions they are going too take for the players? Is it going to be a bubble type thing again where player are kept away from their families for months? If so, that a huge thing the players are giving up.
    These are temporary relief adjustments.
    Depending how the season goes, they could get a bunch of that money back.

    They are not changing the CBA. These are necessary steps to ensure you have a business due to 'act of god'.

    You need to step outside your union box, man, youre blinded by the current situation of the NHL and the world.

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    Weirdly, im pretty pro owner when it comes to sports. Yes the players are the reasons people pay attention but the owners in many cases, especially with hockey, take a lot of risks monetarily. Not every market runs itself so buying a team isn't always a money maker in this sport. I think the players are going to have to adjust to this despite a deal being previously made. If an owner is basically going to lose money, there are going to be situations where they lose less money not playing than playing.

    In times like these, show any owner a bottom line where they might lose 20 million not playing but lost 50 million if they do play and you'll get a resounding "dont play" vote in my opinion. Heard Brian Burke saying this earlier and it's just so true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    These are temporary relief adjustments.
    Depending how the season goes, they could get a bunch of that money back.

    They are not changing the CBA. These are necessary steps to ensure you have a business due to 'act of god'.

    You need to step outside your union box, man, youre blinded by the current situation of the NHL and the world.
    It's got nothing to do with the union, I don't even know why you're bringing this up. I just don't support the owners crying they have no money when I don't see them giving up anything or making any donations. I don't want to hear them cry about losing money when they let tons of workers go. The fact is that they made a deal 4 months ago, so to say that they didn't know it was going to be this bad, when everyone else seemed to know it was going to get worse. Were they really that ignorant at that time? I never said they were changing the CBA, but if they cancel the season, it could very well effect the CBA because there is an agreement in place, and it doesn't matter what the current situation is. A contract is a contract, when the players made the concession 4 months ago, both sides agreed. I again say, if the players are giving up more of their salary, what are the owners giving up? Why should we expect just one side to give in and not the other?

    Im tired of hearing the owners cry about their finances when they don't give two shits about the fans. When their team does bad, they never lower ticket prices, sometimes they raise them. Its like that in all sports. If they cared about the fans, they wouldn't price them out of attending games. Thats why I don't support the owners in this, because they expect everyone else to give to them, but they don't return the favor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keirik View Post
    Weirdly, im pretty pro owner when it comes to sports. Yes the players are the reasons people pay attention but the owners in many cases, especially with hockey, take a lot of risks monetarily. Not every market runs itself so buying a team isn't always a money maker in this sport. I think the players are going to have to adjust to this despite a deal being previously made. If an owner is basically going to lose money, there are going to be situations where they lose less money not playing than playing.

    In times like these, show any owner a bottom line where they might lose 20 million not playing but lost 50 million if they do play and you'll get a resounding "dont play" vote in my opinion. Heard Brian Burke saying this earlier and it's just so true.

    But what happens overall to the sport? Thats the issue. You cancel right now, there are huge repercussions for the future. I don't care how much money the players get, but there needs to be some onus on the owners for crafting a shitty deal 4 months ago. They played ignorant back then, and now they want more give backs or they are cancelling the season. If the season gets cancelled, the sport is dead. They will lose fans and not get them back. Every sport is dealing with this, and still playing. Both sides need to figure it out and get to playing. There is no reason why the NBA, who ended after the NHL, is already in camp, and these two can't figure it out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NYR2711 View Post
    But what happens overall to the sport? Thats the issue. You cancel right now, there are huge repercussions for the future. I don't care how much money the players get, but there needs to be some onus on the owners for crafting a shitty deal 4 months ago. They played ignorant back then, and now they want more give backs or they are cancelling the season. If the season gets cancelled, the sport is dead. They will lose fans and not get them back. Every sport is dealing with this, and still playing. Both sides need to figure it out and get to playing. There is no reason why the NBA, who ended after the NHL, is already in camp, and these two can't figure it out.
    Well yes, and no. Every sport played a first season through covid. No season as of yet has gone a second season. NBA is first but that sport is a very different in my mind at least here in this country. An NBA roster is like 15 people with no real system to speak of compared to the NHL. Also the popularity difference between the two is night and day in my mind in terms of what it can survive with losses and revenue outside of just gate money. An owner that buys an NBA team in any city in North America sans 2-3 places is going to be much better off compared to an NHL counterpart. What the owners and players agreed to back in July pales in comparison to what they believed would be going on today, which is in many cases worse. That can’t just be brushed aside with a “they signed this” in unprecedented times. They are 50/50 partners in this and that means you can’t say fuck you pay me right now.

    Just my opinion here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    These are temporary relief adjustments.
    Depending how the season goes, they could get a bunch of that money back.

    They are not changing the CBA. These are necessary steps to ensure you have a business due to 'act of god'.

    You need to step outside your union box, man, youre blinded by the current situation of the NHL and the world.
    Well let's start here - how do you plead "act of god" for NHL when you've got your NBA teams and your NFL teams and your MLS teams and your EPL teams (Kroenke owns the Avs and Arsenal FC) and your MLB teams, etc, etc playing? "Not play" is not an execution of a force majeure, it's a lockout. If owners think they're going to lose money not playing, the lawsuit the players will win is a straight up money toilet.

    Further, they just redid the CBA and agreed to it four months ago. The owners may have finally fucked up in their negotiations for the first time ever, but they codified a deal.

    However - in no small part due to the escrow system, taxes, and so on - the idea on the table is actually decent for the players, especially players with some longer-term deals or higher value contracts. It's really bad for new players and bottom 6 types, because they simply lack the financial security to benefit from the owners proposal and will have to deal with the financial commitments owners made prior to their contracts. Fox and Lafreniere, for example, are simply not going to be paid their worth for 7 more years.

    The players actually have the owners over a table here, and they should extract a pound of flesh in exchange for agreement. I'd imagine they players should ask for - at the absolute minimum - interest on the loan greater than annual return on sound investment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by G1000 View Post
    Well let's start here - how do you plead "act of god" for NHL when you've got your NBA teams and your NFL teams and your MLS teams and your EPL teams (Kroenke owns the Avs and Arsenal FC) and your MLB teams, etc, etc playing? "Not play" is not an execution of a force majeure, it's a lockout. If owners think they're going to lose money not playing, the lawsuit the players will win is a straight up money toilet.

    Further, they just redid the CBA and agreed to it four months ago. The owners may have finally fucked up in their negotiations for the first time ever, but they codified a deal.

    However - in no small part due to the escrow system, taxes, and so on - the idea on the table is actually decent for the players, especially players with some longer-term deals or higher value contracts. It's really bad for new players and bottom 6 types, because they simply lack the financial security to benefit from the owners proposal and will have to deal with the financial commitments owners made prior to their contracts. Fox and Lafreniere, for example, are simply not going to be paid their worth for 7 more years.

    The players actually have the owners over a table here, and they should extract a pound of flesh in exchange for agreement. I'd imagine they players should ask for - at the absolute minimum - interest on the loan greater than annual return on sound investment.
    Canada.
    Can't compare NHL to NFL based on revenue and reach. Plus they mostly play outside.
    MLS, does that even count? They did a bubble tournament.
    MLB - mostly play outside.
    NBA has half as many players and they each have a duffel bag with all of their equipment.
    You also ignore the cost of upkeep in keeping a big sheet of ice frozen for an extended period of time.

    If the owners can prove they/league as a whole would lose more money playing at the current conditions, vs not playing, they're fine.
    If the PA chooses not to take cuts to play hockey this season, the players would get paid out of the PA emergency fund, and not their contracts.

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    One thing that jumps out of Brooks' Sunday column; officially tired of rich people who own sports franchises crying poverty. If it's that bad, sell the team to someone who doesn't whine like a bitch every time economic circumstances give you a tough few years. IS the NHL being run as a long term proposition by wealthy people, or is it a bunch of mom&pop douchebags?Made a deal 4 months ago, and now, you want to complain? GFYS. Especially Jacobs/Bruins; you have more than enough money, look at the long term.

    Arizona; move already. If anyone else is in a bad market, this should be the break they need to move.Not fans nor players' fault you think throwing good money after bad matters more than playing.

    And there is an element of preserving the game. Cancelling a season because of 2nd rough year is stupidity business wise. Long term you need to play. Better you have another dog's breakfast than nothing.

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