Henrik Lundqvist is the Greatest Ranger in History

It's hard comparing skaters and goalies, so I think everyone should be satisfied with Leetch and Hank as 1 and 1a.

I must mention that pre-war players never get talked about, and Bill Cook, a three time first all star, two time scoring leader and leader of two cup winners really should be included in this discussion.

Mike Richter was a very good non-HOF goalie who never placed on a post-season all-star team. There's only so much credit, career wise that you can give a player for a cup, and his melt down in 1992 probably kept us from the cup that year. Giacomin: HOF, two Vezinas first allstars (by current rules), three second all stars, rates higher, even without a cup.

If "ifs", "ands" and "buts" were candy and nuts, every day would be Christmas.

Come on. The idea that Richter was "better" than Lundqvist because he won a cup is far too simplistic. It completely disregards all the minute details, puck luck and everything else that goes into winning a cup that is beyond the control of a single player. Firstly, the team in front of him was vastly superior. Secondly, he was a couple of bounces away from losing against the Devils. If the puck bounces in off Nichols shin pad instead of out, or when the puck ricochets off 3 or 4 players in front of the net and Sam yells "WHERE'S THE PUCK" - if one of those bounces go the other way no man alive even thinks about Richter in the same ball park as Lundqvist. Yes, those are ifs and buts, and at the same time the nature of the Stanley Cup playoffs. Lundqvist's performances in the 2014 run against Pittsburgh and Montreal aren't that dissimilar to Richter in 1994. They're just not as iconic because of the end result.

I mean, it's fine to say Richter holds a special place in our hearts because he was on the cup winning team and the way he played against the Devils. That's certainly true in my case. But winning the cup doesn't make him a better player, or a better Ranger, than Lundqvist.

To be fair though, it's much, much harder to be the X-Factor that carries a team when you're a defenseman. I'd argue the nature of the position of goaltending lends itself to a GOAT argument. When you compare resumes, however, and discount the idea of carrying a team, I think it's Leetch for me by a pretty wide margin. Make no mistake, the Cup thing matters. Like, A LOT. It will forever be the blemish on Henrik's otherwise sterling career. It's not the be-all end-all of the debate, but it skews it heavily for me.

 

RangersIn7's point about Richter's signature moments kind of makes the point aptly. Where was the Pavel Bure penalty shot stop? The robbing the Devils of a goal mere seconds before "MATTEAU MATTEAU!!!" Henrik made some big saves in the playoffs, but he also made some big whiffs. That game winning goal against Tampa in Game 7 of the ECFs in 2015 was atrocious. It was a softy from center ice. Granted, the team sucked that whole game and laid a massive egg on home ice. But Ben Bishop didn't make those mistakes. In fact, I would argue that in every playoff series we lost, it was heavily due in part to Henrik being outplayed by the other team's goalie. The Rangers turned scrubs into world-beaters (and we still do), but I can't remember a time we needed that huge save from Henrik in the playoffs and actually got it.

 

Maybe there is actually no factual basis for this claim, and my opinion is more than likely tarnished from the past few years of the shell of Henrik in net, but for me, he was never a "big game" goalie. When it mattered most, he couldn't get it done.

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Come on. The idea that Richter was "better" than Lundqvist because he won a cup is far too simplistic. It completely disregards all the minute details, puck luck and everything else that goes into winning a cup that is beyond the control of a single player. Firstly, the team in front of him was vastly superior. Secondly, he was a couple of bounces away from losing against the Devils. If the puck bounces in off Nichols shin pad instead of out, or when the puck ricochets off 3 or 4 players in front of the net and Sam yells "WHERE'S THE PUCK" - if one of those bounces go the other way no man alive even thinks about Richter in the same ball park as Lundqvist. Yes, those are ifs and buts, and at the same time the nature of the Stanley Cup playoffs. Lundqvist's performances in the 2014 run against Pittsburgh and Montreal aren't that dissimilar to Richter in 1994. They're just not as iconic because of the end result.

I mean, it's fine to say Richter holds a special place in our hearts because he was on the cup winning team and the way he played against the Devils. That's certainly true in my case. But winning the cup doesn't make him a better player, or a better Ranger, than Lundqvist.

Yes, I was agreeing with you with that statement. I guess it didn't sound like it. Sorry. Plus, if Richter never wins the Cup, probably the only thing people would talk about the 1992 floater goal against Pittsburgh. If that doesn't happen, the Rangers probably win the Cup that year. So, that's another example too about bounces and whatnot. Lundqvist is no doubt the best Rangers goalie of all time. There were times where the offense let him down, and times where I think the defense let him down, like the first two games of the 2014 Stanley Cup final. It's just how the game goes. It sucked what happened with Richter late in his career with that knee injury making the save, and then the concussions. It was sad to see. Thankfully Henrik was relatively healthy throughout his career.

Some impressive numbers in game 7s and elimination games

 

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I saw that Tweet too! Insane numbers.

Yes, I was agreeing with you with that statement. I guess it didn't sound like it. Sorry. Plus, if Richter never wins the Cup, probably the only thing people would talk about the 1992 floater goal against Pittsburgh. If that doesn't happen, the Rangers probably win the Cup that year. So, that's another example too about bounces and whatnot. Lundqvist is no doubt the best Rangers goalie of all time. There were times where the offense let him down, and times where I think the defense let him down, like the first two games of the 2014 Stanley Cup final. It's just how the game goes. It sucked what happened with Richter late in his career with that knee injury making the save, and then the concussions. It was sad to see. Thankfully Henrik was relatively healthy throughout his career.

Sorry, that one's on me. I thought you meant it was all ifs and buts, but Richter is a SC Champ and Hank isn't so that's that. :palm:

Sorry, that one's on me. I thought you meant it was all ifs and buts, but Richter is a SC Champ and Hank isn't so that's that. :palm:

No worries. :thumbs:

Comparing Richter is probably not fair because, for most of his career, he never had a dedicated goalie coach. Him and Glenn Healy were bouncing ideas off each other the year they won the cup. After that season, Sam St. Laurent was brought up from the IHL, but his role was not day to day or hands on the same way Allaire's is now.

I think for most 90's goalies who weren't Hasek or Roy, it was tough to string a consistent career because of how much the game changed around them. Even Brodeur had Jacques Caron, who he credits heavily for making him into the goalie he was and keeping him in the right mindset.

Now, that being said, there is literally no argument you can make to me that Hank isn't the greatest Ranger of all time. He has made this franchise relevant for almost every single year of his career, and his playoff numbers from 11-15 sound made up they're so good. It's always going to be one of my biggest sports disappointment as a fan, not getting to see him hoist the cup with the Rangers.

Some impressive numbers in game 7s and elimination games

 

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I hate seeing these type of posts. Because when you look at the Cup winning goalies of the last few years, who didn't accomplish stats half as good as this. Then you have Lundqvist putting up superhuman stats like this over MULTIPLE playoff runs and we still don't have a Cup to show for it...just makes the pathetic offense in front of him even more of a bitter pill to swallow.

Comparing Richter is probably not fair because, for most of his career, he never had a dedicated goalie coach. Him and Glenn Healy were bouncing ideas off each other the year they won the cup. After that season, Sam St. Laurent was brought up from the IHL, but his role was not day to day or hands on the same way Allaire's is now.

 

I think for most 90's goalies who weren't Hasek or Roy, it was tough to string a consistent career because of how much the game changed around them. Even Brodeur had Jacques Caron, who he credits heavily for making him into the goalie he was and keeping him in the right mindset.

 

Now, that being said, there is literally no argument you can make to me that Hank isn't the greatest Ranger of all time. He has made this franchise relevant for almost every single year of his career, and his playoff numbers from 11-15 sound made up they're so good. It's always going to be one of my biggest sports disappointment as a fan, not getting to see him hoist the cup with the Rangers.

Pardon this fart in this church; Lundqvist's career W/L in playoffs is 61-67. Grant you felt often like they asked him to hold a 1 goal lead every night but that is a big sample.

I really don't think there's any pressure on him. Panarin and Zib are the stars here, not Lafrenier.

True, and that will last one season, perhaps two. ThenIt?s the LaFren show, and something NY hasn?t had in forever.

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Pardon this fart in this church; Lundqvist's career W/L in playoffs is 61-67. Grant you felt often like they asked him to hold a 1 goal lead every night but that is a big sample.

He had a positive W/L between 2011 and 2015, when he posted the unreal post season numbers I'm referring to.

Also, valuing goaltenders on W/L is just something I'm not particularly a fan of.

Pardon this fart in this church; Lundqvist's career W/L in playoffs is 61-67. Grant you felt often like they asked him to hold a 1 goal lead every night but that is a big sample.

Can you have a positive WL record without winning a cup?

Can you have a positive WL record without winning a cup?

Suppose if you win a bunch of series by lopsided margins-4 games to 1 or sweeps-suppose you could.

Brodeur; 113-91

Luongo; 34-35

Roy; 151-94

Some absolutely great stuff with JD on Lundqvist's buyout, and some Staal stuff as well.

I can't help it though, I just feel better listening to JD. Seems like they both had a long discussion before the buyout...but here: see what you guys think...

Leetch

Way to backup your post with a well thought out and concise argument. ;)

This thread should be entitled "Henrik is the greatest Ranger goaltender in history", not the greatest Ranger in history.

There has never, nor will there ever be another #11.

Sorry guys, not even close.

This thread should be entitled "Henrik is the greatest Ranger goaltender in history", not the greatest Ranger in history.

 

There has never, nor will there ever be another #11.

 

Sorry guys, not even close.

He wasn?t the greatest ranger in history by a mile.

He was well past his prime, and 70% of his career success was while playing elsewhere

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