Jump to content
  • Join us — it's free!

    We are the premiere internet community for New York Rangers news and fan discussion. Don't wait — join the forum today!

IGNORED

Rangers Interested in Eichel?


Pete

Recommended Posts

Draft position doesn't really matter at this stage. Brad Marchand was a 3rd rounder.

 

I always thought Buch had PPG+ potential in him. He's got great vision and a good shot that he never used enough. He's used it more this season and has a small uptick in goals scored as a result, but he still passes up prime scoring opportunities to make an ambitious pass that gets broken up instead. If he ever truly outgrows that habit, you may see a 30 goal PPG player.

..and if he shaves that commie beard he could score 40. :)

He is who/what he is plus an excellent PKer who can play up and down the line up. Would even drop ‘em (and lose). Not everyone could or should be a PPG player

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just curious, what next level step are you looking for from Buch? He's a third rounder who came into the league barely able to stay in the lineup and 5 years later is a top 6 forward who plays PP, PK, and is on pace for 65 points (more of Zib gets his head out of his ass).

 

The only question is how quickly Kakko or Kravtsov get as good as Buch already is.

Well I don’t expect him to take one. That’s my point. There really isn’t another level to go to for him. He has Kreider career path where because of his size and some of his tool set, some thing there’s a higher level just waiting to be achieved. But usually with guys like that, front offices incorrectly think there is some unlockable next level that just the right coaching can bring out so they gamble on him being more than he is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Draft position doesn't really matter at this stage. Brad Marchand was a 3rd rounder.

 

I always thought Buch had PPG+ potential in him. He's got great vision and a good shot that he never used enough. He's used it more this season and has a small uptick in goals scored as a result, but he still passes up prime scoring opportunities to make an ambitious pass that gets broken up instead. If he ever truly outgrows that habit, you may see a 30 goal PPG player.

 

I mean draft position still matters. If a late round guy turns into a super star that's great, but you don't expect that out of them. In Buch's draft class there are 7 third rounders that have played over 100 games and are still in the league. There were 11 guys picked that round that never even made it to the league. In fact the 3rd round of that draft class has been more successful than the 2nd round.

 

So the fact that Buch is even in the league is a plus for the Rangers draft wise. That he is a top 6 player that plays in all situations is a super plus plus. I don't get trying to say Buch should be better because Marchand was a 3rd rounder too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I sincerely hope not. Winning teams don't trade for their franchise players. Eichel is pretty one dimensional. He has 8 more points than Zib and the same number of goals. That ain't worth Kakko, Laf or even Nils. We're losing because we're going, not because we don't have enough firepower.

 

Zib has 7 pts in 20 games.

Eichel has 15 pts in 18 games.

 

Over a course of a season that’s 29 pts vs 69

 

Not really comparable

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kyper and McClean talking about possible Eichel trade and they're comparing it to Nash, Thornton, Seguin trades and how they never work out for the team that trades the better player. Kyper specifically said "I can't see a boatload going to the Buffalo."
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kyper and McClean talking about possible Eichel trade and they're comparing it to Nash, Thornton, Seguin trades and how they never work out for the team that trades the better player. Kyper specifically said "I can't see a boatload going to the Buffalo."

 

Haven't heard them today, but I'd guess that's more a statement of fact than anything. Eichel's the best player going over to whatever team he goes to, and given the somewhat limited market, he's not going to get a lot of "can't miss" in return.

 

The only one of these big star trades that the team trading the star rightly and truly won in like the last 20 years was the Karlsson deal. Rangers absolutely reamed Columbus on the Nash deal. Sharks 100% won the Thornton deal. Stars unquestionably won the Seguin deal. Hell, the Sabres got wrecked in the O'Reilly trade.

 

There will be an Eichel trade if Eichel wants an Eichel trade. The questions for Buffalo to answer are less "what are we getting that's a known commodity" and more "Do we like Vitali Kravtsov more or less than Akil Thomas?"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kyper and McClean talking about possible Eichel trade and they're comparing it to Nash, Thornton, Seguin trades and how they never work out for the team that trades the better player. Kyper specifically said "I can't see a boatload going to the Buffalo."

 

boston won the cup after they traded Seguin

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I mean draft position still matters. If a late round guy turns into a super star that's great, but you don't expect that out of them. In Buch's draft class there are 7 third rounders that have played over 100 games and are still in the league. There were 11 guys picked that round that never even made it to the league. In fact the 3rd round of that draft class has been more successful than the 2nd round.

 

So the fact that Buch is even in the league is a plus for the Rangers draft wise. That he is a top 6 player that plays in all situations is a super plus plus. I don't get trying to say Buch should be better because Marchand was a 3rd rounder too.

 

We can step back and say Buchnevich turned out to be a phenomenal 3rd round pick, and it would be true, but what he becomes in his mid-late 20s isn't limited because of a draft number. I'm not disappointed at all with how he has turned out based on his draft position. I also don't think it's fair to say he's necessarily hit a ceiling for how good he can be. Where he got picked is irrelevant to how the rest of his career plays out.

 

I never said Buch should be better than Marchand, or that they are even the same style player. It was an example of a 3rd round pick who achieved elite status regardless of draft position, because after time has passed the draft position becomes meaningless. Marchand was a 40-50 point player before he broke out at age 27, and even moreso at age 28. Did they say "Great 3rd round pick, but he'll never be any better than a 40-50 point player" about him? Same kind of progression can happen with Buchnevich, even if is admittedly unlikely, and it doesn't matter anymore if he was a #1 OA, 2nd rounder, 3rd rounder, undrafted, etc. 8 years ago.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We can step back and say Buchnevich turned out to be a phenomenal 3rd round pick, and it would be true, but what he becomes in his mid-late 20s isn't limited because of a draft number. I'm not disappointed at all with how he has turned out based on his draft position. I also don't think it's fair to say he's necessarily hit a ceiling for how good he can be. Where he got picked is irrelevant to how the rest of his career plays out.

 

I never said Buch should be better than Marchand, or that they are even the same style player. It was an example of a 3rd round pick who achieved elite status regardless of draft position, because after time has passed the draft position becomes meaningless. Marchand was a 40-50 point player before he broke out at age 27, and even moreso at age 28. Did they say "Great 3rd round pick, but he'll never be any better than a 40-50 point player" about him? Same kind of progression can happen with Buchnevich, even if is admittedly unlikely, and it doesn't matter anymore if he was a #1 OA, 2nd rounder, 3rd rounder, undrafted, etc. 8 years ago.

 

No, draft position doesn't become meaningless. There is a reason players are picked when they are. It doesn't matter when they were picked because if was 8 years ago? Obviously there are outliers on both sides, but the numbers overwhemlingly show that draft position absolutely matters.

 

 

https://dobberprospects.com/2020/05/16/nhl-draft-pick-probabilities/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

boston won the cup after they traded Seguin

 

No they didn't. He was a 19 year old rookie on the Cup winning team. And he was still in Boston when they went to the 2013 finals and lost.

 

Following the Segiun trade they had a second round exit, missed the playoffs twice, and then had a first round exit all while Seguin was putting up 30+ goals and a PPG in Dallas...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, draft position doesn't become meaningless. There is a reason players are picked when they are. It doesn't matter when they were picked because if was 8 years ago? Obviously there are outliers on both sides, but the numbers overwhemlingly show that draft position absolutely matters.

 

 

https://dobberprospects.com/2020/05/16/nhl-draft-pick-probabilities/

 

That data is good for projecting how to value your future draft picks by round, or current prospect pool, and what the probabilities are for outcome based on the round. That doesn't matter after 8 years. Do you think a GM is looking at this data and saying Brad Marchand isn't worth what he's worth because he was a 3rd round pick? No, they are not. It's meaningless after time has passed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That data is good for projecting how to value your future draft picks by round, or current prospect pool, and what the probabilities are for outcome based on the round. That doesn't matter after 8 years. Do you think a GM is looking at this data and saying Brad Marchand isn't worth what he's worth because he was a 3rd round pick? No, they are not. It's meaningless after time has passed.

 

Marchand is an outlier. You think GM's around the league expect all their 3rd rounds to turn into PPG players when 70% of third rounders don't even play 100 games in the league? Hey Adam Tambellini you were drafted 8 years ago, come back from Sweden and make your NHL debut.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Marchand is an outlier. You think GM's around the league expect all their 3rd rounds to turn into PPG players when 70% of third rounders don't even play 100 games in the league? Hey Adam Tambellini you were drafted 8 years ago, come back from Sweden and make your NHL debut.

 

No, that's not at all what I've said, and you've answered none of my questions. Go back and re-read.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Haven't heard them today, but I'd guess that's more a statement of fact than anything. Eichel's the best player going over to whatever team he goes to, and given the somewhat limited market, he's not going to get a lot of "can't miss" in return.

 

The only one of these big star trades that the team trading the star rightly and truly won in like the last 20 years was the Karlsson deal. Rangers absolutely reamed Columbus on the Nash deal. Sharks 100% won the Thornton deal. Stars unquestionably won the Seguin deal. Hell, the Sabres got wrecked in the O'Reilly trade.

 

There will be an Eichel trade if Eichel wants an Eichel trade. The questions for Buffalo to answer are less "what are we getting that's a known commodity" and more "Do we like Vitali Kravtsov more or less than Akil Thomas?"

 

Yeah their words are just more confirmation of what's been said earlier in this thread. Buffalo isn't going to be getting Lafreniere, Kakko, Fox, or Shesterkin. That's not the way these trades work and it never has been. They'll get a 1st, they'll get a couple average NHL players, and they'll get a good prospect. That's it.

 

Look at the Mark Stone deal. Good prospect + Pick. This is the way these things go.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, draft position doesn't become meaningless. There is a reason players are picked when they are. It doesn't matter when they were picked because if was 8 years ago? Obviously there are outliers on both sides, but the numbers overwhemlingly show that draft position absolutely matters.

 

 

https://dobberprospects.com/2020/05/16/nhl-draft-pick-probabilities/

 

Who was surprised to see Artemi wasn't drafted at all?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I don’t expect him to take one. That’s my point. There really isn’t another level to go to for him. He has Kreider career path where because of his size and some of his tool set, some thing there’s a higher level just waiting to be achieved. But usually with guys like that, front offices incorrectly think there is some unlockable next level that just the right coaching can bring out so they gamble on him being more than he is.
He's in impeccable value where he's at, he doesn't need the next step to make him valuable...
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Draft position doesn't really matter at this stage. Brad Marchand was a 3rd rounder.

 

I always thought Buch had PPG+ potential in him. He's got great vision and a good shot that he never used enough. He's used it more this season and has a small uptick in goals scored as a result, but he still passes up prime scoring opportunities to make an ambitious pass that gets broken up instead. If he ever truly outgrows that habit, you may see a 30 goal PPG player.

Draft position matters when you're talking about what steps players have taken and where they are at in their career.

 

Everybody wants to trade him and it's not that I don't understand that, but people have been way more attached to much lesser homegrown players for no reason at all other than they try real hard.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Draft position matters when you're talking about what steps players have taken and where they are at in their career.

 

Everybody wants to trade him and it's not that I don't understand that, but people have been way more attached to much lesser homegrown players for no reason at all other than they try real hard.

 

That's a matter of reflection on the past, not projection of his future. He's already blown past his draft value, so it's pointless.

 

I don't really want to trade him, but if it's for Eichel? Cost of business. They may not have a choice anyway capwise. The Kreider and Trouba deals made sure of that. They could possibly bridge him another 2 years to UFA and make it work, but I don't see how they could keep him longer than that unless they can swing trades of the other two guys.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's a matter of reflection on the past, not projection of his future. He's already blown past his draft value, so it's pointless.

 

I don't really want to trade him, but if it's for Eichel? Cost of business. They may not have a choice anyway capwise. The Kreider and Trouba deals made sure of that. They could possibly bridge him another 2 years to UFA and make it work, but I don't see how they could keep him longer than that unless they can swing trades of the other two guys.

If its trouba or kreider plus Buch to sweeten the deal—-maybe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No they didn't. He was a 19 year old rookie on the Cup winning team. And he was still in Boston when they went to the 2013 finals and lost.

 

Following the Segiun trade they had a second round exit, missed the playoffs twice, and then had a first round exit all while Seguin was putting up 30+ goals and a PPG in Dallas...

Im way off, arent i? I could’ve sworn he was traded before their cup run

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...