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NYR Rank 1st in Pronman's Under-22 Organizational Rankings


LindG1000

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I don't disagree with some of this.

 

But since you can only list what he's NOT good at, I'm asking what the professionals could be seeing to speak pretty highly of him.

 

Your answer of "They're all idiots and I know better" doesn't do it for me.

You mention everyone but Howden.

 

The only place Howden has had ANY success is when he?s planted in front of the net, and he?s picked up some nifty goals and assists. He?s still struggling with where to be when, so as a center, he either attacks the net late - when the play is going the other way, or he?s too tentative, not in the play, and starts retreating prematurely. (Andersson had similar issues).

 

I haven?t seen anything that would suggest he should be playing with skilled players (remember- that has to be earned$. Fact is, kid is lost 98% of the time. IMO, the best thing for his development is moving him to the wing and bring in a bottom 6 C he can learn from. Unfortunately, as a winger, he didn?t show much other than hustling on a few shifts.

 

If you are a 4th liner in the nhl, you need to add something. he doesn?t. Not good defensively, not physical, doesn?t fight, pretty weak on the pk, etc. This guy does literally nothing.

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You guys keep bring up the execs. I didn?t.

 

I?m disagreeing with the article and what he says about Howden. Again, the only thing you said good about Howden is that Yzerman drafted him, lol.

 

Maybe it?s time to cut bait with the execs argument.

 

I tried to go back to discussing his on ice play, but that was quickly ignored by a mod with irrelevant information.

Again, let?s hear about Howden. I?ll wait.

 

You attempted to paint a picture that Yzerman, JD, Quinn,etc had very little experience when they made their positive comments about Howden.

 

Where the opposite is actually true.

 

 

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Yet multiple folks across multiple teams didn't have good things to say about him at the NHL level.

 

Plus that sword cuts both ways. Ranger fans thought Grachev was going to be the next Malkin.

 

yzerman and pronman didn't talk about Howdens NHL play.

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yzerman and pronman didn't talk about Howdens NHL play.
You're still not answering the question.

 

What does Howden do to earn praise from JD, Quinn, his teammates, etc?

 

He's got to be doing something because you can't deny that they talk him up.

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You're still not answering the question.

 

What does Howden do to earn praise from JD, Quinn, his teammates, etc?

 

He's got to be doing something because you can't deny that they talk him up.

 

wait, no. The question is why you think he should get this praise from pronman. That's the thread.

 

Teammates praise him because that's what you do. They going to talk shit about him like I do to Larry brooks?

 

He seems like a nice kid, gets along with people. So?

 

I still think he can develop and be decent, but come on.

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Then go learn in the ahl. Bye.

 

Can anyone name a worse regular from recent memory?

Another Howden discussion with not a Single thing mentioned about his game. The closest being ?he?s played 2 seasons? and ?Yzerman drafted him?

 

And do what for your bottom 6? They don't have anything. Play the shit out of him and develop something. Nobody is saying he's going to be a star. Sounds like consensus is bottom six forward. I don't think bringing in someone to be slightly better than him as he develops is a good idea.

 

Did he deserve the long leash he was on? On ice results say no. I don't think you'll get much argument there. Had Andersson not botched out and went to Hartford with a good attitude, he would have been given Howdens spot. They had literally nobody else to play that role. Who are you realistically replacing him with? Who gets him off the roster?

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There was no hype around Kakko last season?????????? And besides no one is saying Howden had a fantastic amazing season. They are saying they like him. Both are very young players put in NHL spots partly before they really were ready. Just like scouts say they like Kakko,so yeah, food for thought whether you like it or not lol

 

There are differences of course but to just point at one and say analytics say otherwise then ignore analytics for the other seems a bit odd. I have more faith on Kakko being an above average NHL player but they both seem to have qualities that might hinder that from happening.

 

Not that it matters, but just to address this.

Yes, there was loads of hype around Kakko before the season. Then he had a very rough rookie year, and literally everyone agrees it was bad. You don't have "hockey people" trying to tell you Kakko's first year was something other than what it was; a disappointing year from a kid who struggled, understandably enough. In other words, there isn't a noticeable gap between what you saw with your own eyes, what the analytics tell you and and what hockey people are telling you to think about his first year. It's the opposite with Howden, in that the justifications of him being leaned on to the extent he is mainly comes from intangibles such as effort, grit, hockey IQ etc. But underlying stats tell a different story; that whatever it is he's doing on the ice is completely ineffective and often a detriment to the 4 other guys on the ice with him.

 

So no, I don't think it's hypocritical to mention Howden's underlying stats in this case.

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Not that it matters, but just to address this.

Yes, there was loads of hype around Kakko before the season. Then he had a very rough rookie year, and literally everyone agrees it was bad. You don't have "hockey people" trying to tell you Kakko's first year was something other than what it was; a disappointing year from a kid who struggled, understandably enough. In other words, there isn't a noticeable gap between what you saw with your own eyes, what the analytics tell you and and what hockey people are telling you to think about his first year. It's the opposite with Howden, in that the justifications of him being leaned on to the extent he is mainly comes from intangibles such as effort, grit, hockey IQ etc. But underlying stats tell a different story; that whatever it is he's doing on the ice is completely ineffective and often a detriment to the 4 other guys on the ice with him.

 

So no, I don't think it's hypocritical to mention Howden's underlying stats in this case.

It’s all good. We can agree to disagree. Still both fans of the same team. :). Just my personal opinion is that all that ‘was talked about with Kakko didn’t measure up in analytics. Also just the eye test thus far, he’s slow, not a good skater, doesn’t make decisions on an nhl, and is pretty clueless in his own zone. He’s very young so hopefully a lot improves and he did look much better after the restart so we shall see.

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This. In all honesty I would never expect them to say anything else about Howden or anyone else for that matter.

 

The point isn't that they said something nice about him. The point is that they all went out of their way to say something about him specifically, above all others.

 

I don't personally see what they see, but at some point, if everyone who's in the know is saying it, it's probably true.

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No, you ask what they are saying and why they are saying it. No one here has said positive things about Howden.

 

Never believe something only because a few people said it. Ever.

Especially when those few people know more than anyone here about hockey. They can't possibly be right.
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The point isn't that they said something nice about him. The point is that they all went out of their way to say something about him specifically, above all others.

 

I don't personally see what they see, but at some point, if everyone who's in the know is saying it, it's probably true.

 

if anybody watched those 3 awful playoff games Howden was easily one of the few pleasant surprises.

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No, you ask what they are saying and why they are saying it. No one here has said positive things about Howden.

 

Never believe something only because a few people said it. Ever.

 

I'm sorry but I'm not taking a fan message board opinion over the opinions of professionals. That's not the way it works.

 

The fact that no one here has said anything positive about him means less than zero. Unless there's a mole, no one on this board is at practice or in meetings with the players.

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I'm sorry but I'm not taking a fan message board opinion over the opinions of professionals. That's not the way it works.

 

The fact that no one here has said anything positive about him means less than zero. Unless there's a mole, no one on this board is at practice or in meetings with the players.

 

what? He's played 130 NHL games

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you should be able to have a few positive things said about his play.

 

Again, the people that get paid to watch guys play hockey DO have positive things to say...

 

He was drafted by Yzerman, traded for by Gorton, put in the lineup by Quinn, and praised by JD.

 

I simply don't care if the board is down on him anymore. He's clearly doing SOMETHING right. Thinking fans know more than the actual professional scouts is delusion 101.

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