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Thread: Trump May Drop Out of 2020 Race if Poll Numbers Don't Improve, Say GOP Insiders

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanJesus View Post
    It's as simple as capitalism requires customers. As income inequality increases, those who have more are insulated from national challenges like weather catastrophe, economic depression, increase in automation, and of course pandemics. Those who have less, are not. When these challenges strike, unemployment rises, people lose their homes, and become food insecure.

    There is some critical threshold out there of how many of these people can be supported by safety nets. Those who fall out of the net have to resort to other means for survival. They aren't going to just say, "whelp, I guess it's time to let my family starve to death on the streets".

    The pandemic is a perfect illustration of this. Ideally, we would have been able to shut down the country for a month and slowly open things back up carefully. But there was no safety net big enough to do that. So more people got sick and died than needed to. Leaders made a gamble that this virus wouldn't have staying power for a host of reasons. All those reasons failed. The economy is now propped up by direct cash infusion and anti-eviction laws. Once those stop, we'll get to see first hand what income inequality does to a society like ours. I doubt it will be pretty.

    Because of our government structure, you can't force the wealthy to care about those who are not. And history has shown that too many companies will exploit what ever they can to gain more wealth. The only method to level the field and sustain our society is through taxation. That is the price of having access to the United States customer base.

    Now, tax more and maybe businesses leave the US and focus their exploits elsewhere. That's a real possibility as well, so you have to strike a balance.
    Yet in discussions with some of my friends, most of their concern is the unemployment insurance was/is too generous, so much so that people would not want to go back to their jobs, and that there are significant amounts of people taking advantage of the system.

    When I challenge them on that asking what amount of money would be acceptable to them and saying there's no evidence of significant fraud (though we anecdotally know a few people defrauding the unemployment system), they kind of just shrug their shoulders and fall back into the default stance of opposing government assistance that they have to pay for.

    So how do you argue against almost a dogmatic opposition to taxation with the purposes of aiding those who may need it? How do you make the case for all of the programs G1000 mentioned in the face of that opposition?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morphinity View Post
    Yet in discussions with some of my friends, most of their concern is the unemployment insurance was/is too generous, so much so that people would not want to go back to their jobs, and that there are significant amounts of people taking advantage of the system.

    When I challenge them on that asking what amount of money would be acceptable to them and saying there's no evidence of significant fraud (though we anecdotally know a few people defrauding the unemployment system), they kind of just shrug their shoulders and fall back into the default stance of opposing government assistance that they have to pay for.
    Brushing aside the obvious (if the government unemployment system is seen as "too generous", perhaps your job simply underpays you), have they considered the alternative? Lets say you do nothing. What happens? What do people do when they're out of work, there's no income, and no way to get that income because they literally cannot work safely? 60% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck because of that underpayment issue; so let's throw out the savings argument as unrealistic. What happens?

    So how do you argue against almost a dogmatic opposition to taxation with the purposes of aiding those who may need it? How do you make the case for all of the programs G1000 mentioned in the face of that opposition?
    This is my big question. How do you prove to people who don't believe that they could be remotely wrong in their dogma that they're in fact wrong? Especially when it's just math.

    The alternative to something like the government unemployment program is...what? Prison? Wholesale rioting? Mass protests? People don't just sit on their ass collecting a check and buying screen TVs and the like; they're scraping by with even that money. And, unsurprisingly, prison (again, brushing aside the absolutely ludicrous notion that poverty is a crime), protests, riots, whatever - they all cost more than the money we're spending for these folk.
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    PPP poll shows Trump approval rating underwater in key battlegrounds

    The survey from the Democratic-leaning Public Policy Polling (PPP) found that Trump's approval rating sits at 40 percent among voters in both Colorado and Florida, the latter of which was a state the president won in 2016 over Hillary Clinton. In both states, 55 percent of respondents said they disapproved of the job Trump was doing so far as president.

    His approval rating is also in trouble in North Carolina, where just 45 percent of the state's respondents told PPP they approved of Trump's job as president while 52 percent said they did not approve.
    PPP's poll surveyed registered voters in the three states on July 31 with a margin of error among 556 Colorado voters of plus or minus 4.2 percentage points, plus or minus 4.0 percentage points among 609 Florida voters, and plus or minus 3.9 percentage points among 643 North Carolina voters.
    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...nd-states-poll
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    So Biden is now anti-God. Got it.


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    Quote Originally Posted by jsrangers View Post
    So Biden is now anti-God. Got it.

    The man who beats God is a powerful man. He has my vote.

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    Jesus, this is just nuts.

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    Probably can't even spell it, yet alone cite a favorite verse or know the difference between the new and old testament.


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    His behavior disqualifes him as a Man of God. "two Corinthians," (it's Second Corinthians, for what it's worth) was just icing on that cake.
    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If you’re a good loser, you’re a loser."
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    "Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    His behavior disqualifes him as a Man of God. "two Corinthians," (it's Second Corinthians, for what it's worth) was just icing on that cake.
    Hilarious. There's plenty of "second" books in the Bible, especially the New Testament. Pronouncing it wrong is more than just an error. It makes it clear that he's never read a page of it in his life. That should surprise noone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    Hilarious. There's plenty of "second" books in the Bible, especially the New Testament. Pronouncing it wrong is more than just an error. It makes it clear that he's never read a page of it in his life. That should surprise noone.
    Seeing as he held it upside down the one time he got photographed with one, I'm surprised if he has read ANY books.

    Though I hear if you read the Bible backwards it plays Led Zeppelin II so there's that.
    Last edited by G1000; 08-08-2020 at 07:48 AM.
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    Republicans have to let Donald Trump lose if they want victory

    https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign...y-want-victory

    The Hill: “If Republicans want to win, they must first lose. It is the only way to shake the stench of the last four years. Manifesting unyielding loyalty to a man whose loyalty is so selfish is nothing short of political malpractice. Much like the response to the coronavirus, things did not have to become this bad for the party. Voters could have forgiven Republicans for their craven power grab. What they will not forgive and never forget is the doubling down on such behavior to back the president at all costs.”

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    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If you’re a good loser, you’re a loser."
    - John Tortorella


    "Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence."
    - Christopher Hitchens

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    How can anybody that cares about this country possibly vote for Joe Biden?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tphilly5 View Post
    How can anybody that cares about this country possibly vote for Joe Biden?
    You need to expand on that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tphilly5 View Post
    How can anybody that cares about this country possibly vote for Joe Biden?
    Because of the last three and a half years of damage that Trump has done to America. This is a really simple choice. I can not think of any legitimate candidate who could have possibly come from either party who wouldn't make a better president than Donald Trump. Biden is certainly well within that group, and ahead of many.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    You need to expand on that.
    If you like high taxes. If you like a guy that would have been a lousy President 25 years ago when he was still in his prime. If you want an empty suit being propped up by the establishment that engineered the first failed coup in in our country’s history. If you want government taking over our medical care. If you want illegals being allowed into the country with all the rights of a citizen. If you want drug use legalized, a guaranteed income, free education, and abortions on demand. If you want a guy that cares more about the world than our country. If you don’t want manufacturing jobs here and like bad trade deals and the green new deal. Then the guy hiding in his basement that should be wearing a diaper is your guy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanJesus View Post
    Because of the last three and a half years of damage that Trump has done to America. This is a really simple choice. I can not think of any legitimate candidate who could have possibly come from either party who wouldn't make a better president than Donald Trump. Biden is certainly well within that group, and ahead of many.
    Damage to your sensibilities or actual damage? Trump is a crappy president but the country has done just fine. My biggest issue with him is he's a terrible businessman who is extremely poor at building equity, he's all about debt and that's transferred over to running the country. He's obviously failed at leadership in combating COVID but compared to say the governor of California, he's not much worse. As far as I can tell, the only real damage he's done is stabbing the Kurds in the back in Iraq which is not a small thing but here in the US the economy has done well and the country has done just fine

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    Quote Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
    Damage to your sensibilities or actual damage? Trump is a crappy president but the country has done just fine. My biggest issue with him is he's a terrible businessman who is extremely poor at building equity, he's all about debt and that's transferred over to running the country. He's obviously failed at leadership in combating COVID but compared to say the governor of California, he's not much worse. As far as I can tell, the only real damage he's done is stabbing the Kurds in the back in Iraq which is not a small thing but here in the US the economy has done well and the country has done just fine
    This has nothing to do with my sensibilities. It has more to do with an inept response to a pandemic that is killing and debilitating Americans which is wreaking long-term havoc on the economy because of needed deficit spending to prevent the total collapse of society. Weakening America's standing with our allies. Rolling back environmental regulations that will increase the affects of climate change. Flames rather than heals racial tensions. Stalling and/or reversing progress for the LGBTQ community. The list goes on and on.

    About the only thing I've agreed with Trump on was his appointment of Neil Gorsuch, who I find to be a fine and principled jurist.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanJesus View Post
    This has nothing to do with my sensibilities. It has more to do with an inept response to a pandemic that is killing and debilitating Americans which is wreaking long-term havoc on the economy because of needed deficit spending to prevent the total collapse of society. Weakening America's standing with our allies. Rolling back environmental regulations that will increase the affects of climate change. Flames rather than heals racial tensions. Stalling and/or reversing progress for the LGBTQ community. The list goes on and on.

    About the only thing I've agreed with Trump on was his appointment of Neil Gorsuch, who I find to be a fine and principled jurist.
    Alright well you say the list goes on but I can only comment on the items you stated, so then:

    • an inept response to a pandemic that is killing and debilitating Americans which is wreaking long-term havoc on the economy because of needed deficit spending to prevent the total collapse of society

    Definitely inept response to the pandemic, but it is exceptional? Don't forget people were calling him racist when he stopped flights from China and then that somehow flipped a month later to he didn't ban enough flights. I agree that COVID handling is one of his worst moments, he failed to set the example on wearing masks and proper physical distancing. But in terms of deficit spending you are being completely disingenuous. The stimulus is a bipartisan effort and they have needed to have such measures in many countries. Canada was among the most severely locked down, and the cost is going to be tremendous: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53340277

    • Weakening America's standing with our allies

    I've always found this to be such a soft argument. Why would any self respecting country govern based on how other countries view them? What matters is the impact on the citizens. I agree that most countries laugh at Trump, but so what? It used to be the liberal side that was against free trade and for protectionism, and now when Trump comes along he is "damaging our standing". That standing, FYI, is almost completely economic might. The "damage" you are referring to will magically get repaired with a different administration. Other countries have to deal with us because of our outsized global impact

    • Rolling back environmental regulations that will increase the affects of climate change

    Trump hasn't done anything to help climate change but would have Hilary? Do you honestly think the Paris Accord would even help reduce temperature by even a fraction? Carbon trading is ineffective and the goals set, even if they could be met, would not stop the damage that's about to occur. The only hope is geo-engineering, in my view. It is possible to reduce the amount of solar radiation entering the atmosphere and there are potentially ways of removing CO2 from the air or at worst sequestering carbon at the source

    • Stalling and/or reversing progress for the LGBTQ community

    huh? This one is completely head scratching. What progress are you talking about, a bottomless list of gender identities? No questions asked mutliation of children who exhibit mild gender dysphoria?

    Gay marriage is legal, homosexuals are a protected class, discrimination is illegal. Progress to where?

    • Flames rather than heals racial tensions.

    Yeah I agree he likes to fan the flames, he's a troll. But in terms of actual policy and quality of life, black employment was at record highs under him. He signed in criminal justice reform, he signed in a national registry of bad cops who were fired, he pardoned Alice Marie Johnson. What has he done to cause actual damage to blacks, to anything except sensibilities?
    Last edited by GordonGecko; 08-12-2020 at 01:41 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tphilly5 View Post
    If you like high taxes.
    Trump raised my taxes.
    If you like a guy that would have been a lousy President 25 years ago when he was still in his prime. If you want an empty suit being propped up by the establishment that engineered the first failed coup in in our country’s history.
    Comments like this don't even belong here.
    If you want government taking over our medical care.
    No issue with this.
    If you want illegals being allowed into the country with all the rights of a citizen.
    Are they paying taxes?
    If you want drug use legalized, a guaranteed income, free education, and abortions on demand.
    If whiskey is legal, weed should be. UBI is a smart an innovative idea. Not sure if it's doable. People who opt for abortions should have access so safe methods and healthcare. What's wrong with free education LOL?
    If you want a guy that cares more about the world than our country. If you don’t want manufacturing jobs here and like bad trade deals and the green new deal.
    Again, these are non-sensical claims that aren't backed by...anything?
    Then the guy hiding in his basement that should be wearing a diaper is your guy.
    You were saying?

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