Drew a Penalty Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 What do you do when they are ready then? Who's this "cost-controlled solid winger" you're talking about? Why would someone trade them for Trouba who isn't? That's just poor asset management. Trading DeAngelo for a wing when you have talent in the wings is also poor asset management. If there's a worry about Kakko, Gauthier or Kravtsov being inadequate in a top-six role in the short-term then get a stopgap. You can sign one of those through free agency or trade for them by not using a valuable asset like DeAngelo. If you're trading a 60 point pacing defenseman, which don't grow on trees, at least make a trade for another center. Throw Strome on the wing. Don't make a shortsighted move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 IF ADA is that good there's not going to be anybody offering established cost controlled wingers for him? Certainly respect your opinion if you don't agree with moving him but to infer there would be nobody worth while out there to get for a guy some here hold so highly regarded is playing both sides of the argument. Wouldn't all kinds of teams be lining up for such a stud? Wouldn't we be dealing from strength again if he's such a stud? I think that's part of the problem, he's a one way guy who still can't defend much if at all most nights. DOn't make a short sighted move whole also not overplaying your hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keirik Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 Who are we trading our 60-70 point 23 year old rfa for that is going to be equal to in talent, production, age, and cost controlled? Or are we talking to dump ADA for a 40-50 point player? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew a Penalty Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 I said who's trading a cost-controlled player for Trouba. Go back and read what I said regarding ADA. Anyone you're acquiring is either going to be cost-controlled short-term or be prohibitive for prospects who should be moving up the ranks soon. I never said no one would want him. That's you making that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew a Penalty Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 Who are we trading our 60-70 point 23 year old rfa for that is going to be equal to in talent, production, age, and cost controlled? Or are we talking to dump ADA for a 40-50 point player? Exactly this. If you're acquiring someone of equal talent then it needs to be someone like Matt Tkachuk or Elias Lindholm from Calgary for instance. The issue being that Tkachuk is already earning $7M per season with only two more years left on his deal, and there's no reason to trade someone like Lindholm, a 30 goal scorer, on a sub $5M deal for four more seasons. It's then a bad sign for the up and coming players like Kakko et al. who are then blocked off from ever achieving any top-six role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keirik Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 IF ADA is that good there's not going to be anybody offering established cost controlled wingers for him? Certainly respect your opinion if you don't agree with moving him but to infer there would be nobody worth while out there to get for a guy some here hold so highly regarded is playing both sides of the argument. Wouldn't all kinds of teams be lining up for such a stud? Wouldn't we be dealing from strength again if he's such a stud? I think that's part of the problem, he's a one way guy who still can't defend much if at all most nights. DOn't make a short sighted move whole also not overplaying your hand. It’s not that teams wouldn’t be interested in him. It’s that there really aren’t that many cost effective wingers that put up impactful numbers and aren’t about to break the bank and the ones that are, teams that have them tend not to deal. Think Zibanejad. At 5.9m the Rangers would be nuts to deal him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted May 24, 2020 Author Share Posted May 24, 2020 Lindgren-Fox has become the de facto top pair. I can't see why Trouba can't be a steady partner for DeAngelo. Just tell Trouba to not lose positioning by trying to blow people up as often as he does. There's also nothing that really indicates a preference to left-right exclusive. That's just been the makeup of the defensive corps based on numbers. I'm sure if Quinn had more steady and talented options he would be open to experimentation if it worked. Fast is currently a top-six player because Kakko hasn't been. Kravtsov and Gauthier should be given opportunities to play on higher lines. Acquiring another wing, the least valuable position, is bad asset management. Who would they acquire that wouldn't need significant money. You're suggesting cashing in on DeAngelo so that means acquiring someone of equivalent value in what will presumably be a hockey trade. Who's available one-for-one that won't mean significant money in the immediate future or won't be prohibitive of top-six prospects playing in their eventual supposed roles? I've already mentioned Lundkvist. He's talented, sure. We don't know what kind of role he plays in the NHL. There's no pressing need for cap space like you're making out. Will they have to eventually trade Trouba? Probably. Is that in issue now when there's a guaranteed $20M+ coming off the books after 20-21 with no significant players up for extension save Shesterkin? No. LOL what? The ice time charts don't say Lindgren and Fox are the top pair. Neither does common sense so stop trying to bend it to fit your narrative. Your post is ripe with assumptions. There's nothing proving lefty righty positioning except the fact that Quinn moves with lefty righty positioning. I wanted to go point by point but there's not really a reason to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted May 24, 2020 Author Share Posted May 24, 2020 I also love how the same people who want multiple successful seasons as proof of everything are willing to buy off on ADA after one season. He could totally flop next year. These are the same people who don't want to sign Strome. Pick your lane guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew a Penalty Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 LOL what? The ice time charts don't say Lindgren and Fox are the top pair. Neither does common sense so stop trying to bend it to fit your narrative. Your post is ripe with assumptions. There's nothing proving lefty righty positioning except the fact that Quinn moves with lefty righty positioning. I wanted to go point by point but there's not really a reason to. Except for the fact that from January onward Trouba only had a slight ice time advantage over Fox which decreased as the season went on. Seems pretty much like he overtook him there at the end. But "common sense." Okay, bud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keirik Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 I also love how the same people who want multiple successful seasons as proof of everything are willing to buy off on ADA after one season. He could totally flop next year. These are the same people who don't want to sign Strome. Pick your lane guys. I think that might be less to do with a lane and more to do with Strome being 26 and in his 7th year in the league of a yo-yo career. ADA is 23. Personally I think they need both of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 Ada has already shown his cards contract ask wise when he had zero leverage. There's a pretty decent chance he's could price himself out of here long term anyway which I believe was part of the original theme here which was you can't afford to pay everyone especially a 3rd pair one way dman when it's a position of strength. In three years I would bet against all three of them still being here. It?s not that teams wouldn?t be interested in him. It?s that there really aren?t that many cost effective wingers that put up impactful numbers and aren?t about to break the bank and the ones that are, teams that have them tend not to deal. Think Zibanejad. At 5.9m the Rangers would be nuts to deal him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 Exactly this. If you're acquiring someone of equal talent then it needs to be someone like Matt Tkachuk or Elias Lindholm from Calgary for instance. The issue being that Tkachuk is already earning $7M per season with only two more years left on his deal, and there's no reason to trade someone like Lindholm, a 30 goal scorer, on a sub $5M deal for four more seasons. It's then a bad sign for the up and coming players like Kakko et al. who are then blocked off from ever achieving any top-six role. Even if we pretend dumping DeAngelo wasn't to clear cap space, and was just to get any winger regardless of cap hit, it wouldn't get Tkachuk. And if that was on the table, I'm making the trade and making the space for Tkachuk. But everyone here knows that's not going to happen. I haven't seen any names proposed as being 1) somewhere near DeAngelo's talent level and worth, 2) being cost controlled for the Rangers to save $$, and 3) the trading partner is willing to pay DeAngelo on a contract that's more than the player they are trading. I don't see how the Rangers get anywhere near equivalent value while also clearing cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 I also love how the same people who want multiple successful seasons as proof of everything are willing to buy off on ADA after one season. He could totally flop next year. These are the same people who don't want to sign Strome. Pick your lane guys. One passes the eye test. The other doesn't. Unless we are talking about which one takes the laziest penalties. One carried Staal. The other got carried by Panarin. One was top 5 in points scored at his position. The other is a serviceable, yet replaceable, middle 6 player. It's an easy lane to pick. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keirik Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 Ada has already shown his cards contract ask wise when he had zero leverage. There's a pretty decent chance he's could price himself out of here long term anyway which I believe was part of the original theme here which was you can't afford to pay everyone especially a 3rd pair one way dman when it's a position of strength. In three years I would bet against all three of them still being here. Well I suppose we will see. I get he took a hard stand but that doesn’t mean these two sides can’t get a 2-3 year deal for under 6m. He still is an RFA. Still up in the air if this pandemic helps or hurts any contract negotiations too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted May 24, 2020 Author Share Posted May 24, 2020 One passes the eye test. The other doesn't. Unless we are talking about which one takes the laziest penalties. One carried Staal. The other got carried by Panarin. One was top 5 in points scored at his position. The other is a serviceable, yet replaceable, middle 6 player. It's an easy lane to pick.You're the only one hooked on the "lazy penalty" bandwagon. ADA carried Staal? You also say Staal is garbage so ADA didn't carry him too far. Strome got carried by Panarin? Guess Strome is so heavy Panarin couldn't carry Fast the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted May 24, 2020 Author Share Posted May 24, 2020 Except for the fact that from January onward Trouba only had a slight ice time advantage over Fox which decreased as the season went on. Seems pretty much like he overtook him there at the end. But "common sense." Okay, bud.Link to ice time in all situations, bud? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted May 24, 2020 Author Share Posted May 24, 2020 I think that might be less to do with a lane and more to do with Strome being 26 and in his 7th year in the league of a yo-yo career. ADA is 23. Personally I think they need both of them.How has ADA had any less of a yo yo career? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew a Penalty Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 Link to ice time in all situations, bud? Check NHL.com buddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 D'Angelo has put up some very solid numbers. Not sure what you can really know what the cap for next season will be. If you get rid of him, you'll be looking for another guy like him to replace that production the next day. In Duguay's recent podcast, Neil Smith said trading Zubov was a huge mistake, overthinking it, not fully appreciating the player you already had. This would be the same kind of thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 You're the only one hooked on the "lazy penalty" bandwagon. ADA carried Staal? You also say Staal is garbage so ADA didn't carry him too far. Strome got carried by Panarin? Guess Strome is so heavy Panarin couldn't carry Fast the same way. No. You just don't like to admit his lazy penalties and line changes. It frightens me what any pairing with Staal would have looked like if DeAngelo wasn't outweighing all of the negative. There was only a 10 point differential in ES points between Strome and Fast. Fast wasn't on that line all year and had less even strength minutes to work with as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keirik Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 How has ADA had any less of a yo yo career? Because he’s been in the league half the time Strome has and he’s 23. Come on, you know there is a big difference between regression of going from a 50 point player to a perennial 30 pt player until discovering Panarin et all are good and a player changing from 20 years old to 23 years old. To be honest, I don’t even know why Strome is coming up here. ADA does has a higher ceiling than a Strome in my opinion. I think both need to be retained though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsm7302 Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 Agreed. Retain both. I stand by DeAngelo is a commodity all seek and few find. RFA at the end of this season? 3 years/5 mil. Send him to UFA if he regresses. Pay him his due as a UFA in 3 years if it seems fit. Give Strome 3 years/ 5 mil also. That seals up some pretty good pieces in this rebuild for the tail end of it. Remember when Jagr and Nylander were broken up? Jagr wasnt as effective or productive (still Jagr though) Cant break up chemistry and that is exactly what Panarin and Stromer have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albatrosss Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 I honestly don’t see any kind of special chemistry between Panarin and Strome. Panarin can play with anyone amd will make anyone better. Strome is benefiting from playing with Pan. ADA’s number have also benefited from playing with Pan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted May 24, 2020 Author Share Posted May 24, 2020 Check NHL.com buddy.Nah. You're making the claim. You do the legwork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew a Penalty Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 Nah. You're making the claim. You do the legwork. Stats from NHL.com based on the final 20 games of the season. Fox surpasses Trouba in EV TOI but Trouba plays significantly more PK time while Fox often gets none. Fox gets no benefit from PP time because they play on the same unit with the exception of 02/16 when Fox accrued 5:57 of PP time. I'd say this argues that they're pretty close, but Quinn chose not to overwhelm one of his rookies with significant all-situations time. He clearly showed more and more trust. He just relied upon Smith, Trouba, Staal, and Lindgren as his PKers over Fox. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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