confirmed: Adam Fox is a Stud

Even if we pretend dumping DeAngelo wasn't to clear cap space, and was just to get any winger regardless of cap hit, it wouldn't get Tkachuk. And if that was on the table, I'm making the trade and making the space for Tkachuk. But everyone here knows that's not going to happen.

 

I haven't seen any names proposed as being 1) somewhere near DeAngelo's talent level and worth, 2) being cost controlled for the Rangers to save $$, and 3) the trading partner is willing to pay DeAngelo on a contract that's more than the player they are trading. I don't see how the Rangers get anywhere near equivalent value while also clearing cap.

Except for the fact that you don't need to move DeAngelo to clear cap space. If the cap remains steady going into 20-21 there's around $16M with which to re-sign Strome, DeAngelo, Georgiev, and then minor pieces. With the significant relief coming in the summer of 2021 moving him to clear space is even less of an issue.

We don't know what his asking price was last season. It was just more than the Rangers were willing to pay given what he had produced prior. I'm not going to pretend it was something exorbitant when we don't know the number. The Trouba and Panarin deals made the Rangers hard-pressed for cap space at the time. That's not an issue whenever the 2020 "offseason" eventually occurs.

I'm asking for legitimate examples of players DeAngelo should be traded for. No one has provided any so far. I've mentioned players of the type of value that they should be seeking, though I still don't agree with acquiring a wing. No one has yet to offer a "cost-controlled" example that wouldn't require payment in the immediate future.

I honestly don’t see any kind of special chemistry between Panarin and Strome. Panarin can play with anyone amd will make anyone better. Strome is benefiting from playing with Pan.

ADA’s number have also benefited from playing with Pan.

Panarin was on par for a career year with Strome. The fact that he made ADA better too is the key to a great team, no? If everyone is having career years together then I'd say that's a pretty solid base for a team. Especially one looking to grab its footing on the tail end of a rebuild.

You're the only one hooked on the "lazy penalty" bandwagon.

Strome took 23 minor penalties this season. Tied for 9th in the league. He drew only 6 penalties this season. His net penalties of -17 is tied for 6th worst in the league. Taking and drawing penalties isn't his strong suit. A lot of his penalties are stick infractions, that's something he needs to work on.

 

 

Stats from NHL.com based on the final 20 games of the season.

 

Fox surpasses Trouba in EV TOI but Trouba plays significantly more PK time while Fox often gets none. Fox gets no benefit from PP time because they play on the same unit with the exception of 02/16 when Fox accrued 5:57 of PP time.

 

I'd say this argues that they're pretty close, but Quinn chose not to overwhelm one of his rookies with significant all-situations time. He clearly showed more and more trust. He just relied upon Smith, Trouba, Staal, and Lindgren as his PKers over Fox.

Strome took 23 minor penalties this season. Tied for 9th in the league. He drew only 6 penalties this season. His net penalties of -17 is tied for 6th worst in the league. Taking and drawing penalties isn't his strong suit. A lot of his penalties are stick infractions, that's something he needs to work on.

He wouldn't get the ice time he does if he were lazy. Quinn wouldn't go for it.

I would love nothing more than Fox to be the number one defenseman on this team. It's just not reality,

We're not going to agree here. I see Trouba as becoming more of a defensive specialist. I know you disagree with that notion because that's not what they paid him to do, but I see it as a sunk cost at this point. He'll get his PP2 and PK time along with whatever allotment of even strength. I don't think we're far from seeing Fox definitively as the top defenseman on the team. I think some signs point to it already. I think the coming 24 team playoff and 20-21 season will work to prove that point further.

I wouldn't say a lot of them were lazy. The sticking fractions are tripping when he's going for the puck or high sticking when he's going for a stick lift.

 

He wouldn't get the ice time he does if he were lazy. Quinn wouldn't go for it.

I agree that they're not lazy, but that doesn't mean they're not careless. It's an aspect of his game that needs improvement. I don't really question Strome's effort because that's been overall consistent. I question other things like his defensive ability or his actual offensive prowess. I've compared him to being similar to Stepan offensively. I still standby that.

Except for the fact that you don't need to move DeAngelo to clear cap space. If the cap remains steady going into 20-21 there's around $16M with which to re-sign Strome, DeAngelo, Georgiev, and then minor pieces. With the significant relief coming in the summer of 2021 moving him to clear space is even less of an issue.

 

We don't know what his asking price was last season. It was just more than the Rangers were willing to pay given what he had produced prior. I'm not going to pretend it was something exorbitant when we don't know the number. The Trouba and Panarin deals made the Rangers hard-pressed for cap space at the time. That's not an issue whenever the 2020 "offseason" eventually occurs.

 

I'm asking for legitimate examples of players DeAngelo should be traded for. No one has provided any so far. I've mentioned players of the type of value that they should be seeking, though I still don't agree with acquiring a wing. No one has yet to offer a "cost-controlled" example that wouldn't require payment in the immediate future.

Agreed all around.

Panarin was on par for a career year with Strome. The fact that he made ADA better too is the key to a great team, no? If everyone is having career years together then I'd say that's a pretty solid base for a team. Especially one looking to grab its footing on the tail end of a rebuild.

I’d argue Pan was on par for a career year despite of Strome. I just didnt see anything that Strome has done that no other decent center wouldn’t

I’d argue Pan was on par for a career year despite of Strome. I just didnt see anything that Strome has done that no other decent center wouldn’t

Strome has a well below average shot but he is an above average passer IMO. I think that had at least a little bit to do with Panarin hitting a career high in goals.

We're not going to agree here. I see Trouba as becoming more of a defensive specialist. I know you disagree with that notion because that's not what they paid him to do, but I see it as a sunk cost at this point. He'll get his PP2 and PK time along with whatever allotment of even strength. I don't think we're far from seeing Fox definitively as the top defenseman on the team. I think some signs point to it already. I think the coming 24 team playoff and 20-21 season will work to prove that point further.

He's also not very good defensively, pretty sure the metrics agree with that although I only looked at them at mid year.

I agree that they're not lazy, but that doesn't mean they're not careless. It's an aspect of his game that needs improvement. I don't really question Strome's effort because that's been overall consistent. I question other things like his defensive ability or his actual offensive prowess. I've compared him to being similar to Stepan offensively. I still standby that.

Regardless this is an Adam Fox thread. We've covered enough about Strome.

As long as Trouba is playing against the other team's top pairings, he's going to get the minutes.

 

He's also not very good defensively, pretty sure the metrics agree with that although I only looked at them at mid year.

Fox not good defensively? Or are you still talking about Trouba?

Fox did play top pair minutes and against top lines sometimes towards the end of the season. Quinn even said that himself in an interview a week or so ago. That they ?wasnt afraid to put them [Fox & Lindgren] out there against teams top lines in the 2nd half of the season?.

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Anyone else expecting a sophomore slump?

I am.

Don’t think it will be immense or permanent and I think he’ll be very good for a long time, but there’s valleys on the horizon for him. Hard not to have one.

Anyone else expecting a sophomore slump?

I am.

 

Don’t think it will be immense or permanent and I think he’ll be very good for a long time, but there’s valleys on the horizon for him. Hard not to have one.

He is so calm and patient with the puck. There's no panic in his game. I don't see a slump incoming personally.

Anyone else expecting a sophomore slump?

I am.

 

Don’t think it will be immense or permanent and I think he’ll be very good for a long time, but there’s valleys on the horizon for him. Hard not to have one.

Good chance of it.

I agree that they're not lazy, but that doesn't mean they're not careless. It's an aspect of his game that needs improvement. I don't really question Strome's effort because that's been overall consistent. I question other things like his defensive ability or his actual offensive prowess. I've compared him to being similar to Stepan offensively. I still standby that.

I must spread it around but wanted to let you know you’re making a lot of good points here

I must spread it around but wanted to let you know you?re making a lot of good points here

Same as Keirik. I have to "spread it around" as well, Drew.

I must spread it around but wanted to let you know you’re making a lot of good points here

Same as Keirik. I have to "spread it around" as well, Drew.

:cheers:

 

 

Stats from NHL.com based on the final 20 games of the season.

 

Fox surpasses Trouba in EV TOI but Trouba plays significantly more PK time while Fox often gets none. Fox gets no benefit from PP time because they play on the same unit with the exception of 02/16 when Fox accrued 5:57 of PP time.

 

I'd say this argues that they're pretty close, but Quinn chose not to overwhelm one of his rookies with significant all-situations time. He clearly showed more and more trust. He just relied upon Smith, Trouba, Staal, and Lindgren as his PKers over Fox.

If I ever need a lawyer, I'll keep you at the top of my contact list, Drew!! :rofl:

Great work digging all that up!

By the way...I absolutely love Fox's game, and he's showing tremendous promise!!!

Trouba is unmovable. ADA will get u a truckload in a trade. We have a mobile D core(sans staal) and the future on D looks bright with upcoming rookies who also can put up points. There?s really no place or need for ADA.

First pair. Left side. Fits perfect

We haven't had enough of a chance to see if someone can't be transitioned to another side. Quinn began using Fox and DeAngelo together at 4 on 4 and during offensive zone starts. Who's to say that DeAngelo can't learn to play on Trouba's left? The most NHL ready defenseman the Rangers have is yet another right-handed player in Lundkvist. Even then, we don't know how ready he is.

 

What holes need to be addressed that can't be from within? You say trade DeAngelo for a wing? Why? How does that help? Panarin and Kreider are locked in on the top two left-wing spots for the perpetual future. Buchnevich likely doesn't have much time left on the team, but then you have Kakko, Kravtsov, and Gauthier all waiting to move up. They need time, but they'll hopefully get there and be cost-controlled. Adding another wing via trade probably means more salary which aligns with more of your "spending for the sake of spending" notion.

Agreed. Totally.

First pair. Left side. Fits perfect

I actually think this would put him in a position to be more dangerous with the puck. He can take more aggressive angles entering the zone or at the point.

Would never put ADA against another team's top lines or DZS that Trouba gets.

You know what they say...the best defense is a good offense.