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Thread: Rangers Locking Up Tony DeAngelo is Far From No-Brainer

  1. #81
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    Even without ADA and Fox, Trouba’s contract is excessive.

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    I think the idea that Trouba wasn't needed because of the emergence of Fox and AdA kind of skips over the fact that neither of those 2 young guys get the D Zone starts and tough assignments that Trouba is asked to do.
    The contract doesn't look great at this point, but a player like him was needed regardless of how good AdA and Fox have been.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    I think the idea that Trouba wasn't needed because of the emergence of Fox and AdA kind of skips over the fact that neither of those 2 young guys get the D Zone starts and tough assignments that Trouba is asked to do.
    The contract doesn't look great at this point, but a player like him was needed regardless of how good AdA and Fox have been.
    I think if you look at some of his advanced stats, he's not really good at that job though.

    Or at least he was as good at it as Skjei who everyone said sucked, last time I compared them.

    He could have got better since then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    I think if you look at some of his advanced stats, he's not really good at that job though.

    Or at least he was as good at it as Skjei who everyone said sucked, last time I compared them.

    He could have got better since then.
    I would think shitty Skjei play and decent Trouba play would equal meh stats for the pair.

    Either way I think it's safe to say he performed way better in that role than ADA or Fox (at this point is his career) would.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    I would think shitty Skjei play and decent Trouba play would equal meh stats for the pair.

    Either way I think it's safe to say he performed way better in that role than ADA or Fox (at this point is his career) would.

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    Yeah I mean in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king, right?

    ADA sure. He's a terrible defender.

    Fox? Who knows? we're not going to know while Trouba blocks them both.

    It's also a lot of money to pay somebody for the baseline of "be better defensively than ADA".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Yeah I mean in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king, right?

    ADA sure. He's a terrible defender.

    Fox? Who knows? we're not going to know while Trouba blocks them both.

    It's also a lot of money to pay somebody for the baseline of "be better defensively than ADA".
    Good problem to have, I think.

    Hard to swallow paying 15m on the right side for the next two years, minimum, though. Doubly so when the left side so desperately needs help beyond Lindgren. Triply so with the uncertainty of the financial situation now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by G1000 View Post
    Good problem to have, I think.

    Hard to swallow paying 15m on the right side for the next two years, minimum, though. Doubly so when the left side so desperately needs help beyond Lindgren. Triply so with the uncertainty of the financial situation now.
    Easier to swallow when you get rid of 15m in dead weight on the left side. And hopefully some kids emerge as legit NHLers.

    And we can still explore ADA on the left side.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    I think if you look at some of his advanced stats, he's not really good at that job though.

    Or at least he was as good at it as Skjei who everyone said sucked, last time I compared them.

    He could have got better since then.
    I mean, sure. There might be an argument to be had whether he was the right guy or not.
    That doesn’t make the argument that he is surplus to requirements because of AdA and Fox any less flawed however.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    I mean, sure. There might be an argument to be had whether he was the right guy or not.
    That doesnít make the argument that he is surplus to requirements because of AdA and Fox any less flawed however.
    The argument is strictly from a salary cap standpoint.

    There's currently one player on RD who's not worth the price tag. It's Trouba.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    I mean, sure. There might be an argument to be had whether he was the right guy or not.
    That doesn’t make the argument that he is surplus to requirements because of AdA and Fox any less flawed however.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    The argument is strictly from a salary cap standpoint.

    There's currently one player on RD who's not worth the price tag. It's Trouba.
    There’s two sides to the Trouba coin to me.
    One side, he was never worth and had never done enough to earn a contract of north of $55 million and $8 million per and be one if the 10 highest paid D in the league.
    Other side, he’s absolutely better then what he has shown thus far as a Ranger.

    While I certainly believe he will improve and his struggles were partially caused by his clear confusion in the D system they play, carrying Skjei who will never be an effective D zone defender, and always drawing the toughest assignment, he’s overpaid by about $1.5 million per.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    The argument is strictly from a salary cap standpoint.

    There's currently one player on RD who's not worth the price tag. It's Trouba.
    Technically, Smith is a RD
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    Technically, Smith is a RD
    Who cares? He's not playing the right.

    This adds what, exactly, to the conversation?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Who cares? He's not playing the right.

    This adds what, exactly, to the conversation?
    about as much as comparing Trouba's contract to DeAngelo's and Fox's
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    The argument is strictly from a salary cap standpoint.

    There's currently one player on RD who's not worth the price tag. It's Trouba.
    That’s fine, but it’s not really the point I’m addressing.
    There are several people in this thread making the point that because Fox and AdA have turned out so good, signing Trouba wasn’t necessary. That’s inaccurate. They don’t do the same job. Although like I said you can argue whether Trouba was the right guy.

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    Q? Can ADA continue the pace - the upward trajectory? I'm hopeful that as he ages into the position, he just gets better and better. Let's not forget the common wisdom about D-men taking longer to reach max skill and effectiveness. That and I think the kid has straightened his thinking on how to be a pro in the NHL and what it takes to become consistent.

    Fox? A gem getting more polished with each game.

    Trouba? I agree with RangersIn7, "Other side, he’s absolutely better then what he has shown thus far as a Ranger." I want to see Trouba play consistently with the snarl he showed late in the season. Absolutely standing guys up and putting on monsterous and effective hits to our opponents. Keep that up consistently along with developing the offensive numbers (once our D system gets established) and he'll be worth his contract IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    Thatís fine, but itís not really the point Iím addressing.
    There are several people in this thread making the point that because Fox and AdA have turned out so good, signing Trouba wasnít necessary. Thatís inaccurate. They donít do the same job. Although like I said you can argue whether Trouba was the right guy.
    Yes I don't think you can have that argument without having it holistically.

    You don't need Trouba doing an average job and making $8 million when you've got to pay ADA and Fox. If Trouba was doing a great job then you can say he's worth it for doing something the other 2 aren't.

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    To me getting rid of ADA Because of the presence of Fox makes as much sense as saying get rid of Strome because we have Howden.

    I get it, Fox is a lot more advanced but still. aDA offensively is elite. There is no way right now to know if Fox will 100% take that next step and he’s under contract for quite a wHile longer. Longvenligh to bridge ADA and see where we are by 2023

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    Howden has shown very little and could easily be replaced. Fox has the same number of points as Howden in half as many games. I don't see the comparison between the two situations. Strome had pretty solid season despite falling off some lately. I honestly think ADA's future here depends on the ask dollars and term wise. Bridging him may make the most sense. The Trouba deal is going to sting along the way and is something they'll have to work around. Was it worth it I guess time will tell but there will probably be some casualties along the way.
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  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keirik View Post
    To me getting rid of ADA Because of the presence of Fox makes as much sense as saying get rid of Strome because we have Howden.

    I get it, Fox is a lot more advanced but still. aDA offensively is elite. There is no way right now to know if Fox will 100% take that next step and heís under contract for quite a wHile longer. Longvenligh to bridge ADA and see where we are by 2023
    There's not a single person here saying get rid of ADA because you have Fox without the boat loads of context that you're leaving out with your comparison.

    You simply can't tie up ADA long-term when you have Trouba and Fox AND you have more than enough right side defense coming. Fox will need to get paid and is a better all-around defenseman than ADA. It's a matter of how much you're sinking into the right side. Trouba is really the issue and you'll lose ADA for it eventually because ADA wants to and should get paid.

    Howden is trash. Use a better player like Chytil.

    If Chytil had a breakout year we wouldn't be talking about paying Strome at all. Because Mika is due a new $10 million deal soon, Chytil would have been getting possibly a Barkov like hit (comparably since Barkov signed years ago) so you can't sign strong because you can't have that much money tied up in one position (This is also in a theoretical world where the Rangers have plenty of centers.)

    The reality is the Rangers don't have centers, and they have plenty of right side D. So that comparison doesn't really hold.
    Last edited by Pete; 03-31-2020 at 07:38 AM.

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    Fox has 2 years left on his ELC before many years as a RFA. A lot can happen by then, including a lot of dead cap space and some big horrible contracts will be gone.

    I dont get this "you cant pay much money for 3 RHD's" thing. 1) yes you can. 2) Fox won't get paid before atleast 2022. 3) One of the 3 could switch to the left side.

    ADA (6m) - Trouba (8m)
    Lindgren (ELC) - Fox (ELC)
    Someone - Lundkvist (ELC)

    If this is the defense in the 2021/22 season. How is this too much money for the D? in 2022 Fox will get paid, Lindgren will be bridged, Lundkvist still on ELC and a 3rd pair LD shouldnt be too expensive. Still not too much money on the D.

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