What Would You Consider a Successful Trade Deadline Day for Gorton and the Rangers?

If you look at most of the teams that have been very good and sustained it over the last 15 years (since 04-05 lockout) almost all of them have done so because they had and hit on multiple high draft picks.

Washington

Pittsburgh

Chicago

Even Boston to an extent.

Tamps fits in a way too.

Another high pick can’t hurt

Not saying it hurts, obviously.

Just questioning whether spending both picks to move up a few spots is the right move. You?re not getting a generational player. I mean, the best you can do is probably move up to 8 or thereabouts.

Like I said, my gut feeling is it?s a better move to spend one pick on a known commodity that can help right now.

If you're in the NHL playoffs, you're in your "cup window".

Not saying it hurts, obviously.

Just questioning whether spending both picks to move up a few spots is the right move. You’re not getting a generational player. I mean, the best you can do is probably move up to 8 or thereabouts.

 

Like I said, my gut feeling is it’s a better move to spend one pick on a known commodity that can help right now.

Totally get it

That young asset that you’re talking about though could easily cost both picks. Though it’s probably more likely and easier to do then move up in draft. Teams don’t come off those picks.

God, I wished they’d sucked this year.

Not necessarily both. Although, as always, it comes down to the return if they traded both picks for a player.

I was thinking more in terms of packaging one pick to do something like the Trouba deal, and make a pick with the other.

I think I'd lean towards that rather than packing both to move up a few spots.

The point I'm making is that if you think the Rangers are going to be in their Cup window next year, I don't agree.

 

When they are, in 3ish years... What's Kreider going to be?

Your post said "they're automatically better next year".

 

CK turns 30 next April.

 

Panarin is younger than CK.

 

The math isn't adding up..?

Correct, I said "they're automatically better next year" than they are this year. How you spun that into I "think the Rangers are going to be in their Cup window next year" I couldn't tell you.

For 30 out of the 32 weeks of the season in 2021/2022, both Ck and Panarin will be 30 years old. CK will turn 31 and instantly forget how to play hockey right before the playoffs start.

Panarin is 6 whole months younger.

My math is fine.

"Window" is such a bullshit term that means nothing.

I'd like to know the situation with the Cap's, Bruins, and Penguins windows, when they opened and when they're closing please.

"Window" is such a bullshit term that means nothing.

 

I'd like to know the situation with the Cap's, Bruins, and Penguins windows, when they opened and when they're closing please.

Exactly.

"Window" is such a bullshit term that means nothing.

 

I'd like to know the situation with the Cap's, Bruins, and Penguins windows, when they opened and when they're closing please.

Having multiple HOF players on your roster for a decade or more keeps that window open for a long time provided you can maintain quality on the rest of the roster.

especially hockey ,they say its one sport you make the playoffs anything can happen

Ok. This is not voodoo and theology, it is history and probability - no matter what "they say." Somebody must have done the work here. How many times in the last 30 years has a team that finished in the lower half of the playoff pool won the Cup? And there is probably a significant difference in odds between 9-12 and 13-16. Anything can happen. How often does it? I can do this but not right now.

"Window" is such a bullshit term that means nothing.

 

I'd like to know the situation with the Cap's, Bruins, and Penguins windows, when they opened and when they're closing please.

Well, apparently Gorton and Sather decided that our bullshit term closed two years ago, which is why they tore the whole thing down.

"Window" is such a bullshit term that means nothing.

 

I'd like to know the situation with the Cap's, Bruins, and Penguins windows, when they opened and when they're closing please.

I mean, the term is probably too rigid — literally — but every team operates in these. Even the Pens, Caps, and Bs. When they started? When their star guys all hit their primes and/or signed long-term. When they end? When those guys retire in the event other guys can't backfill the void — something that's going to be especially difficult for PIT and WSH, who will be losing generational players. The Bs are more the model the Rangers are likely looking at, where they're just structurally sound (both team and organization) so they can fill in continuously despite not having a generational talent.

I mean, the term is probably too rigid — literally — but every team operates in these. Even the Pens, Caps, and Bs. When they started? When their star guys all hit their primes and/or signed long-term. When they end? When those guys retire in the event other guys can't backfill the void — something that's going to be especially difficult for PIT and WSH, who will be losing generational players. The Bs are more the model the Rangers are likely looking at, where they're just structurally sound (both team and organization) so they can fill in continuously despite not having a generational talent.

Sure but everyone around here acts as if there's some magical 3-year period we're approaching where everything needs to be perfect. "Kreider will be 30 when we hit our window which means the window is actually closed!" No. It's bullshit. Bruins are the perfect example. They have some pretty fucking old players and yet they've been relevant for 10 years.

Correct, I said "they're automatically better next year" than they are this year. How you spun that into I "think the Rangers are going to be in their Cup window next year" I couldn't tell you.

 

For 30 out of the 32 weeks of the season in 2021/2022, both Ck and Panarin will be 30 years old. CK will turn 31 and instantly forget how to play hockey right before the playoffs start.

 

Panarin is 6 whole months younger.

 

My math is fine.

"Kreider will be 30 when we hit our window which means the window is actually closed!"

No one said this or anything like it.

Your version is bullshit, yes I agree.

But no one is saying that.

I wanted to see maybe you where looking to hit a hr with both or just one pick and get a complimentary player

I wouldn’t be against it necessarily, but the return would have to be fucking good.

Athletic has what you'd expect.

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New York Rangers:*B

It was always the preference for both the Rangers and Chris Kreider to get a long-term deal done and there appeared to be some give on both sides to make it happen. It?s longer than you want for a player who turns 29 in April. History suggests those last couple of years won?t be pretty. But the AAV isn?t bad for someone with Kreider?s ability.

?I like Kreider,? said an Eastern Conference executive. ?That?s what he?s going to get in the market. I know they didn?t want to go to the seventh year. They probably thought it was important to their development.?

The signing made another move necessary. Raises are coming for Ryan Strome and Tony DeAngelo, and the Rangers like their organizational defensive depth on the left side. Trading Brady Skjei was a tough decision but the payoff is multiple first-round picks for the third draft in four years.

Sure but everyone around here acts as if there's some magical 3-year period we're approaching where everything needs to be perfect. "Kreider will be 30 when we hit our window which means the window is actually closed!" No. It's bullshit. Bruins are the perfect example. They have some pretty fucking old players and yet they've been relevant for 10 years.

When can you hit your peak? How high will your peak be as compared to the competition (Cup worthy or not)? How long can you stay there? Call it a window, call it an arc, call it whatever you want. It exists in every sport and every athlete's career. I assume that these are the questions that dominate Gorton's calculus on all the moves we're discussing here. The operative question this time was do you maintain a focus on assembling young pieces at the highest talent level with the knowledge that they'll take longer to play a real role or do you start filling in with players that can contribute sooner but may have less to ultimately bring to the table.

For me, I think we have put together some impressive talent but I am not at all convinced that the sum total is yet enough to win a Stanley Cup, whether it be tomorrow or 5 years from now. There are too many questions - like Miller - that have yet to be answered. Further, I think we have a less than 5 percent chance of winning a Cup this year or next year, yet we can make decisions to go for early contribution now that could hamper the effort to compile the talent necessary to win later on. So I continue to believe that the long term build should absolutely take precedence over near term results, meaning this season or even next season.

You may think that we have enough pieces now. Definitely a defensible position. But that question - do we yet have enough - seems to get swallowed in the excitement of whether we could somehow snag a wild card spot. I totally get the instinct to roll the dice, cuz who knows and, shit, another spring without playoffs sure would be boring. But the question that continues to bug me is whether the long term arc will be high enough.