gdt: 2019-20 NHL Trade Deadline: Kreid or Die ? Maybe Both?

Yeah I knew that

Don’t know why I said D

Probably had his dad in the brain.

To be fair, TBL has another prospect named Foote who's a D (Cal Foote).

To be fair, TBL has another prospect named Foote who's a D (Cal Foote).

His brother.

Tampa's just never going to get there without standing on their own two Feete.

What a fucking joke of a trade. It's not even the Tampa 1st that got dealt. What's Kreider worth then? Newhook and a 1st? Studnicka, 1st, 3rd?

Tampa's just never going to get there without standing on their own two Feete.

 

What a fucking joke of a trade. It's not even the Tampa 1st that got dealt. What's Kreider worth then? Newhook and a 1st? Studnicka, 1st, 3rd?

I don’t necessarily think this changes the price on Kreider, even if he’s a better player than Coleman. He still probably brings a 1 and a prospect in the range of what Foote is.

He’s still a straight rental. Whoever gets Kreider gets 4 months of him, max.

Tampa gets up to 4 months of Coleman this season and all of next season, at a near bargain bin cap hit.

It’s not quite apples to oranges, but it’s not apples to apples either.

I’m still fine with a 1st and a good (not elite) prospect for Kreider. It’s a fair return for a rental.

But I am still hoping that there’s several teams bidding on him come Monday and maybe that drives the price up.

If they can give some team a Hot Cosby for Kreider, I’m all about that

Kreider 23 goals ufa in months

Coleman 21 goals and 1.8m cap hit through next year.

Why are we sounding like we hold Kurri in his prime? I can totally sees why Coleman got a good haul just fro his term.

Kreider 23 goals ufa in months

Coleman 21 goals and 1.8m cap hit through next year.

 

Why are we sounding like we hold Kurri in his prime?

Well, because goals and cap isnt everything?

Kreider 11 more points in fewer games this season. Kreider is having his 3rd 50 point season, Coleman has 0. Kreider has 28 goals in two different season (this will likely be his 3rd), Coleman has 0. Both same age, Kreider a better player by a clear margin. The cap is important, but I dont think Rangers have a problem with trading kreids at 50% and taking back a 2m contract to make Kreid's cap hit close to the same as Coleman's.

Well, because goals and cap isnt everything?

 

Kreider 11 more points in fewer games this season. Kreider is having his 3rd 50 point season, Coleman has 0. Kreider has 28 goals in two different season (this will likely be his 3rd), Coleman has 0. Both same age, Kreider a better player by a clear margin. The cap is important, but I dont think Rangers have a problem with trading kreids at 50% and taking back a 2m contract to make Kreid's cap hit close to the same as Coleman's.

Yeah I think we all know Kreids pedigree but none of that changes him being a pending Ufa oysbCplemans contract NEXT year that makes him worth that. He's not just a rental and it won't cost him 7m to try and keep him past this offseason.

You have to factor in the buying team (Tampa's) cap situation. Coleman isn't merely a deadline addition for them, he fills a need next season as well. They have to re-up Cirelli and Sergachev, and Vasi's next contract kicks in. So his term, cap hit and skillset probably makes it just about worth it for them, even if the price is high.

You can't look at what Tampa gave up in this particular deal and say "well that means Kreider is worth x,y and z", because that isn't really how it works.

I think it was Lebrun who said the price is probably around what the Lightning would have to give up to get Kreider, and the extra year tipped the scales for them.

I don’t necessarily think this changes the price on Kreider, even if he’s a better player than Coleman. He still probably brings a 1 and a prospect in the range of what Foote is.

He’s still a straight rental. Whoever gets Kreider gets 4 months of him, max.

Tampa gets up to 4 months of Coleman this season and all of next season, at a near bargain bin cap hit.

 

It’s not quite apples to oranges, but it’s not apples to apples either.

 

I’m still fine with a 1st and a good (not elite) prospect for Kreider. It’s a fair return for a rental.

But I am still hoping that there’s several teams bidding on him come Monday and maybe that drives the price up.

 

If they can give some team a Hot Cosby for Kreider, I’m all about that

Remember, though he was a Josh favorite, Foote went at the bottom of the first round (#27) and that was even high according to several raters. So in thinking about how this helps set the Kreider price, Foote is a solid prospect - but by almost no measure an "elite" prospect.

Remember, though he was a Josh favorite, Foote went at the bottom of the first round (#27) and that was even high according to several raters. So in thinking about how this helps set the Kreider price, Foote is a solid prospect - but by almost no measure an "elite" prospect.

Sure, agreed. But again, this deal doesn't help set the Kreider price at all. Tampa acquired a +-20 goal scorer for the remainder of this season and the next at a cap hit of 1.8m, knowing full well they'll be feeling a cap crunch next season and won't get that type of depth scoring/PK at a similar cap hit elsewhere. It's Coleman's contract that is the main driver of value here. It's a completely different scenario to trading Chris Kreider as a rental.

Sure, agreed. But again, this deal doesn't help set the Kreider price at all. Tampa acquired a +-20 goal scorer for the remainder of this season and the next at a cap hit of 1.8m, knowing full well they'll be feeling a cap crunch next season and won't get that type of depth scoring/PK at a similar cap hit elsewhere. It's Coleman's contract that is the main driver of value here. It's a completely different scenario to trading Chris Kreider as a rental.

I see that it's a different animal, but I think it actually devalues the Kreider price both as a trend and in specific. As some (probably Athletic) writer described term as the "new, hot feature of the trade deadline," add cap insurance with term-at-low-price and pure rentals necessarily fall in value - especially where there is no guarantee to sign. Specifically, another potential suitor has used their TDL ammo on something other than Kreider, and the likelihood of a multi-bidder auction is reduced.

So with the Devil's getting a 1st and a decent prospect for a scrub like Coleman, can we stop hearing about how little the Rangers can get back for Kreider?

Yeah. Coleman is a scrub. Ha! Ha! Ha! 21 G... 10 A... for a guy that's not a frontliner...

I see that it's a different animal, but I think it actually devalues the Kreider price both as a trend and in specific. As some (probably Athletic) writer described term as the "new, hot feature of the trade deadline," add cap insurance with term-at-low-price and pure rentals necessarily fall in value - especially where there is no guarantee to sign. Specifically, another potential suitor has used their TDL ammo on something other than Kreider, and the likelihood of a multi-bidder auction is reduced.

I actually just think it?s a separate category.

Straight rentals are their own thing. If a guy has term, it?s another thing to itself.

How it influences the price, that?s anyone?s guess. Though it?s best to simply look at it like, the teams that he?s been most associated with as most likely destinations haven?t made any significant deals as of yet, so we are still possibly looking at multiple teams being interested in him.

I see that it's a different animal, but I think it actually devalues the Kreider price both as a trend and in specific. As some (probably Athletic) writer described term as the "new, hot feature of the trade deadline," add cap insurance with term-at-low-price and pure rentals necessarily fall in value - especially where there is no guarantee to sign. Specifically, another potential suitor has used their TDL ammo on something other than Kreider, and the likelihood of a multi-bidder auction is reduced.

You know, the TB 1st is still very much in play, as are other prospects in the TB system. They could still trade for Kreider. Frankly, I wonder if something around Kreider and Killorn or Johnson+ isn't a win-win sort of deal. Gets the Rangers a similar output forward at a reasonable number, gets Tampa a higher-level player for the cup run and cuts the salary for next year

Nolan Foote seems to have been widely regarded as a top tier prospect, though. He's listed as the second best player in the Lightning farm system by Wheeler, was ranked top 50 (48) by Pronman. Have to wonder just how desperate Tampa feels they are for next year - right up against the cap, contracts due to Cirelli, Sergachev, and Cernak, plus needing at minimum two more forwards and two more defenders to fill the roster. They're already committed to 75.2M next year BEFORE all that happens.

Look back at what Rick Nash brought back as a rental. A 1st, a good defensive prospect, a youngish roster player with 39 and 49 point seasons under his belt, an overpaid 3rd/4th liner and a 7th round pick. Nash was older and had even less playoff success than Kreider..

Some teams may prefer the rental with no commitment, if they are just going all in for the season. Teams will pay for the name, the size, the speed of such players. Coleman isn't anywhere near that level. Though his numbers for a guy who started kinda late as an NHLer, he is what he is. If teams are getting that kind of return for 3rd line late bloomers.. Kreider should bring back similar to more.

Look back at what Rick Nash brought back as a rental. A 1st, a good defensive prospect, a youngish roster player with 39 and 49 point seasons under his belt, an overpaid 3rd/4th liner and a 7th round pick. Nash was older and had even less playoff success than Kreider..

 

Some teams may prefer the rental with no commitment, if they are just going all in for the season. Teams will pay for the name, the size, the speed of such players. Coleman isn't anywhere near that level. Though his numbers for a guy who started kinda late as an NHLer, he is what he is. If teams are getting that kind of return for 3rd line late bloomers.. Kreider should bring back similar to more.

If you break it down, Lindgren cancels out the Beleskey contract. It was a 1st, plus change of scenery roster player, and a 7th. Pretty much what we have been saying about Kreider

You know, the TB 1st is still very much in play, as are other prospects in the TB system. They could still trade for Kreider. Frankly, I wonder if something around Kreider and Killorn or Johnson+ isn't a win-win sort of deal. Gets the Rangers a similar output forward at a reasonable number, gets Tampa a higher-level player for the cup run and cuts the salary for next year

 

Nolan Foote seems to have been widely regarded as a top tier prospect, though. He's listed as the second best player in the Lightning farm system by Wheeler, was ranked top 50 (48) by Pronman. Have to wonder just how desperate Tampa feels they are for next year - right up against the cap, contracts due to Cirelli, Sergachev, and Cernak, plus needing at minimum two more forwards and two more defenders to fill the roster. They're already committed to 75.2M next year BEFORE all that happens.

That’s definitely a possibility. And an interesting one that warrants a look.

Tampa has to be at least a bit desperate at this point I think. They’ve been so good and so close over the last 6-7 seasons. Deep playoff runs, President’s Trophy, super talented roster, have added players at deadline etc., yet they haven’t gotten over the hump.

As mentioned their cap situation will eventually catch up with them so they are likely feeling the pressure at this point. They have much of their core intact moving forward, but there’s a ton of money tied up in a bunch of guys and there will be key casualties at some point.

Look back at what Rick Nash brought back as a rental. A 1st, a good defensive prospect, a youngish roster player with 39 and 49 point seasons under his belt, an overpaid 3rd/4th liner and a 7th round pick. Nash was older and had even less playoff success than Kreider..

 

Some teams may prefer the rental with no commitment, if they are just going all in for the season. Teams will pay for the name, the size, the speed of such players. Coleman isn't anywhere near that level. Though his numbers for a guy who started kinda late as an NHLer, he is what he is. If teams are getting that kind of return for 3rd line late bloomers.. Kreider should bring back similar to more.

Yeah but the Beleskey/Spooner portion of that deal was essentially Boston clearing some money off the books and roster space etc., to make the money on the deal work if I recall correctly.

Rangers made that deal for the 1st and Lindgren, knowing they’d likely bury Beleskey (which they did) and trade Spooner after giving him look and seeing how he did (which they did).

If you break it down, Lindgren cancels out the Beleskey contract. It was a 1st, plus change of scenery roster player, and a 7th. Pretty much what we have been saying about Kreider

Lol, I've seen maaaybeee a first, and a garbage prospect and a take anything attitude.

I expect a Nash like return, but instead of a change of scenery type, they get a legit player/ top prospect.

Yeah but the Beleskey/Spooner portion of that deal was essentially Boston clearing some money off the books and roster space etc., to make the money on the deal work if I recall correctly.

Rangers made that deal for the 1st and Lindgren, knowing they’d likely bury Beleskey (which they did) and trade Spooner after giving him look and seeing how he did (which they did).

Planned on trading Spooner? Guy got here and was on fire. Was deemed a candidate for a middle 6 role as a winger or a center..... Next season he stunk and was a healthy scratch. What a trade that dump was in taking Strome, who also got here and produced when given the opportunity. Thankfully he kept it going.

Toffoli traded to Canucks per Dreger. Dont know the return yet.

Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk