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Thread: 2019-20 NHL Trade Deadline: Kreid or Die Maybe Both?

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYRangers723 View Post
    That Trouba contract sucks
    So does Trouba


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    Quote Originally Posted by So Nashty View Post
    So does Trouba


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    I’ve never been a big fan of his. The trade was ok but once I saw that contract I knew it wa not gonna be good. Gorton has an awful track record with defensemen

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    So with the Devil's getting a 1st and a decent prospect for a scrub like Coleman, can we stop hearing about how little the Rangers can get back for Kreider?

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    So with the Devil's getting a 1st and a decent prospect for a scrub like Coleman, can we stop hearing about how little the Rangers can get back for Kreider?
    If Coleman is worth that, even as a non rental, Kreider has to fetch a 1st and a high end prospect...period. No more 1st and throw in prospects talk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    So with the Devil's getting a 1st and a decent prospect for a scrub like Coleman, can we stop hearing about how little the Rangers can get back for Kreider?
    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    If Coleman is worth that, even as a non rental, Kreider has to fetch a 1st and a high end prospect...period. No more 1st and throw in prospects talk.
    Obviously you acknowledged it, but Coleman having term left and carrying a cap hit of less than 2 million is a big factor in his return.
    And I wouldn’t call Coleman a scrub. He’s now a proven 20-goal guy on a bad team all while getting like 60% of his starts in the D zone.
    Foote is a nice prospect. He’s probably at least another 1-2 seasons away from NHL and probably won’t make an impact for 4-5 seasons, but he has the tools and the pedigree to be a good quality NHL D. He’s not an A-level elite guy, but he’s definitely in the group right below that. Still only 19 and in his first year post-draft year.

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    Foote is a forward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunny View Post
    Foote is a forward.
    Yeah I knew that
    Don’t know why I said D
    Probably had his dad in the brain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RangersIn7 View Post
    Yeah I knew that
    Don’t know why I said D
    Probably had his dad in the brain.
    To be fair, TBL has another prospect named Foote who's a D (Cal Foote).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc View Post
    To be fair, TBL has another prospect named Foote who's a D (Cal Foote).
    His brother.

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    Tampa's just never going to get there without standing on their own two Feete.

    What a fucking joke of a trade. It's not even the Tampa 1st that got dealt. What's Kreider worth then? Newhook and a 1st? Studnicka, 1st, 3rd?
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    Quote Originally Posted by G1000 View Post
    Tampa's just never going to get there without standing on their own two Feete.

    What a fucking joke of a trade. It's not even the Tampa 1st that got dealt. What's Kreider worth then? Newhook and a 1st? Studnicka, 1st, 3rd?
    I don’t necessarily think this changes the price on Kreider, even if he’s a better player than Coleman. He still probably brings a 1 and a prospect in the range of what Foote is.
    He’s still a straight rental. Whoever gets Kreider gets 4 months of him, max.
    Tampa gets up to 4 months of Coleman this season and all of next season, at a near bargain bin cap hit.

    It’s not quite apples to oranges, but it’s not apples to apples either.

    I’m still fine with a 1st and a good (not elite) prospect for Kreider. It’s a fair return for a rental.
    But I am still hoping that there’s several teams bidding on him come Monday and maybe that drives the price up.

    If they can give some team a Hot Cosby for Kreider, I’m all about that

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    Kreider 23 goals ufa in months
    Coleman 21 goals and 1.8m cap hit through next year.

    Why are we sounding like we hold Kurri in his prime? I can totally sees why Coleman got a good haul just fro his term.
    Last edited by Keirik; 02-16-2020 at 11:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keirik View Post
    Kreider 23 goals ufa in months
    Coleman 21 goals and 1.8m cap hit through next year.

    Why are we sounding like we hold Kurri in his prime?
    Well, because goals and cap isnt everything?

    Kreider 11 more points in fewer games this season. Kreider is having his 3rd 50 point season, Coleman has 0. Kreider has 28 goals in two different season (this will likely be his 3rd), Coleman has 0. Both same age, Kreider a better player by a clear margin. The cap is important, but I dont think Rangers have a problem with trading kreids at 50% and taking back a 2m contract to make Kreid's cap hit close to the same as Coleman's.

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    What's Strome worth in this market? I was previously thinking 2nd round pick and it probably wouldn't be worth trading him for it unless his next contract wasn't looking reasonable. Now I'm not so sure. Is a 1st and a decent prospect the floor? He's surely worth more than Coleman?

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    Depends on the team. Coleman is cost controlled. Strome is getting a new deal of at least $4M.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc View Post
    Well, because goals and cap isnt everything?

    Kreider 11 more points in fewer games this season. Kreider is having his 3rd 50 point season, Coleman has 0. Kreider has 28 goals in two different season (this will likely be his 3rd), Coleman has 0. Both same age, Kreider a better player by a clear margin. The cap is important, but I dont think Rangers have a problem with trading kreids at 50% and taking back a 2m contract to make Kreid's cap hit close to the same as Coleman's.
    Yeah I think we all know Kreids pedigree but none of that changes him being a pending Ufa oysbCplemans contract NEXT year that makes him worth that. He's not just a rental and it won't cost him 7m to try and keep him past this offseason.

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    You have to factor in the buying team (Tampa's) cap situation. Coleman isn't merely a deadline addition for them, he fills a need next season as well. They have to re-up Cirelli and Sergachev, and Vasi's next contract kicks in. So his term, cap hit and skillset probably makes it just about worth it for them, even if the price is high.
    You can't look at what Tampa gave up in this particular deal and say "well that means Kreider is worth x,y and z", because that isn't really how it works.

    I think it was Lebrun who said the price is probably around what the Lightning would have to give up to get Kreider, and the extra year tipped the scales for them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RangersIn7 View Post
    I don’t necessarily think this changes the price on Kreider, even if he’s a better player than Coleman. He still probably brings a 1 and a prospect in the range of what Foote is.
    He’s still a straight rental. Whoever gets Kreider gets 4 months of him, max.
    Tampa gets up to 4 months of Coleman this season and all of next season, at a near bargain bin cap hit.

    It’s not quite apples to oranges, but it’s not apples to apples either.

    I’m still fine with a 1st and a good (not elite) prospect for Kreider. It’s a fair return for a rental.
    But I am still hoping that there’s several teams bidding on him come Monday and maybe that drives the price up.

    If they can give some team a Hot Cosby for Kreider, I’m all about that
    Remember, though he was a Josh favorite, Foote went at the bottom of the first round (#27) and that was even high according to several raters. So in thinking about how this helps set the Kreider price, Foote is a solid prospect - but by almost no measure an "elite" prospect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RodrigueGabriel View Post
    Remember, though he was a Josh favorite, Foote went at the bottom of the first round (#27) and that was even high according to several raters. So in thinking about how this helps set the Kreider price, Foote is a solid prospect - but by almost no measure an "elite" prospect.
    Sure, agreed. But again, this deal doesn't help set the Kreider price at all. Tampa acquired a +-20 goal scorer for the remainder of this season and the next at a cap hit of 1.8m, knowing full well they'll be feeling a cap crunch next season and won't get that type of depth scoring/PK at a similar cap hit elsewhere. It's Coleman's contract that is the main driver of value here. It's a completely different scenario to trading Chris Kreider as a rental.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    Sure, agreed. But again, this deal doesn't help set the Kreider price at all. Tampa acquired a +-20 goal scorer for the remainder of this season and the next at a cap hit of 1.8m, knowing full well they'll be feeling a cap crunch next season and won't get that type of depth scoring/PK at a similar cap hit elsewhere. It's Coleman's contract that is the main driver of value here. It's a completely different scenario to trading Chris Kreider as a rental.
    I see that it's a different animal, but I think it actually devalues the Kreider price both as a trend and in specific. As some (probably Athletic) writer described term as the "new, hot feature of the trade deadline," add cap insurance with term-at-low-price and pure rentals necessarily fall in value - especially where there is no guarantee to sign. Specifically, another potential suitor has used their TDL ammo on something other than Kreider, and the likelihood of a multi-bidder auction is reduced.

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