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Thread: Rangers Are Thinking "More and More" About Keeping Kreider

  1. #861
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    Quote Originally Posted by lefty9 View Post
    but they didnt come with his size and strength ,plus he is a better offensive player then they were
    Agreed. Overall he had grown as a player. When he first came into the league he was awful defensively but now is pretty good defensively. Also I like that we have used him on face offs which he has done well on too

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    Quote Originally Posted by RangersIn7 View Post
    Yes
    I know Iím not the only one. Hope I didnít sound like the lone voice in the wilderness.

    Also with Kreider,
    Doesnít shoot well
    Doesnít play well in neutral or D zones
    Doesnít kill penalties

    If people want to talk about what he is as a player, they need to look at ALL of it.
    Add:

    Doesn't walk on water
    Doesn't heal the sick
    Doesn't say forgive Torterella, he knows not what he is doing

  3. #863
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    While playing for Rangers...

    16-17 Krieder 28 G with PP1 time, Grabner 27 from the 3rd line with no PP time.
    17-18 Kreider 16 G in 58 GP, Grabner 25 G in 59 games.
    thats why he been on quite a few teams , but even with out good offensive skills ,he still was able to score because of speed.
    thats why they say speed kills

  4. #864
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    i like kreider ,i think he is our thir d best forward ,which tells you that he isnt so easy to replace,but i dont want to kill our development ,so if our return is good and we cant sign because he wants too much$$$$ i have no problem trading him.
    but to say he is easy to replace is kind of silly

  5. #865
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew a Penalty View Post
    Bobrovsky just signed in Florida. His $10M is shit, but that's a two time Vezina winner signing on the open market for below Carey Price.

    Radulov, an example you gave, went to Dallas. Pavelski this past summer. Corey Perry sucks but he also went there.

    Tampa hasn't gone big fish hunting of late because they haven't had to. They've drafted, developed or traded for anything they've needed and then retained them all for peanuts.

    Vegas has only been around two seasons. Stastny signed there. Pacioretty re-signed. Stone basically only wanted to go there.



    Do you really not think the quality of the teams plays into it at all?
    None of these guys took lesser deals with the income tax being the balance factor. Maybe Pach, but he was a scrap heap pickup.

    Bob went where ever he was getting paid. Nobody was giving him that money.

    Pav is an ok example. He's old as fuck and so is Perry. Radulov went to whoever had cap space and was a contender...I'd say he fits my narrative more than yours.

    Quality of team definitely fits into it. Comfortability, liking the area, the organization, the direction... All things that go into a home town discount.

    I think Kreider likes it here. Likes his teammates, wants to be apart of what is evolving... Yeah. Quality of the team. Are you agreeing with me now or what?
    Last edited by The Dude; 02-14-2020 at 11:56 PM.

  6. #866
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    I'd say he fits my narrative more than yours.
    Right. Radulov gave a hometown discount to...Dallas. LOL.

    What did going on this tangent prove exactly? You still don't have a good example for a considerable discount for a UFA equivalent to $1M per season.

  7. #867
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    The only thing I disagree with here is that Kreider is the #2 LW here. And that’s a perfect spot for him. He’s also going to be the worst top 6 forward, and hopefully there are a 1 or 2 third liners pushing. $7m?
    Worst top 6 forward? How do? Panarin and Zib have him beat. There ARE NO top 6 forwards here save for them. Kreider isn't the #2 LW?

    Not grasping what you're trying to say here. Is 7 mill really a lot for your third best forward?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew a Penalty View Post
    Right. Radulov gave a hometown discount to...Dallas. LOL.

    What did going on this tangent prove exactly? You still don't have a good example for a considerable discount for a UFA equivalent to $1M per season.
    Proved that players DO give hometown discounts. Named them. You cited the examples as not good enough and that no income tax was the reason they signed where they did. I showed that hardly anyone signs anywhere due to income tax... You didn't care...

    Radulov came from the KHL mid season. If I remember correctly, he resigned with them the following summer. At a lower than market value...m

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    Proved that players DO give hometown discounts. Named them. You cited the examples as not good enough and that no income tax was the reason they signed where they did. I showed that hardly anyone signs anywhere due to income tax... You didn't care...
    You didn't prove anything. You just listed a bunch of players who once re-signed contracts most of whom were RFAs. I wasn't the only one to call you out on that. I'm also not the only person to ever cite income tax as a benefit for a team.

    I'm sorry that your points were unconvincing.

    Radulov came from the KHL mid season. If I remember correctly, he resigned with them the following summer. At a lower than market value...m
    Radulov came over and played a full season for Montreal where he put up 54 points. He then got paid appropriately for that production and because of risk. Teams don't trust KHL production. Remember Vadim Shipachyov?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew a Penalty View Post
    . Remember Vadim Shipachyov?
    I do. Drafted him with my last pick in fantasy. That one....was a miss lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    Worst top 6 forward? How do? Panarin and Zib have him beat. There ARE NO top 6 forwards here save for them. Kreider isn't the #2 LW?

    Not grasping what you're trying to say here. Is 7 mill really a lot for your third best forward?
    in 4, 5, 6, 7 years... Then that's still a lottery team
    Lias Andersson for #AJT2019

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew a Penalty View Post
    You didn't prove anything. You just listed a bunch of players who once re-signed contracts most of whom were RFAs. I wasn't the only one to call you out on that. I'm also not the only person to ever cite income tax as a benefit for a team.

    I'm sorry that your points were unconvincing.



    Radulov came over and played a full season for Montreal where he put up 54 points. He then got paid appropriately for that production and because of risk. Teams don't trust KHL production. Remember Vadim Shipachyov?
    The Rangers are prime examples of RFA's signing deals equal to UFA's.

    Trouba was a RFA. Fuckin guy got 8 mill.
    Brady Skjei. 5.25 for his 2nd contract...

    People are saying DeAngelo can ask for 7 mill ( I disagree) after one good season. They say that because it seems RFAs are getting paid.

    Why do you think people talk about buying out UFA years when signing RFAs? It definitely has more to do with a player being closer to UFA than it does with kids coming off the ELCs, but not always hence the 2.5 mill overpayment that is Skjei.

    Im sorry you think no income tax is the sole reason for players taking team friendly contracts. If income tax were an issue at all, nobody would want to play in NY. If you're really going down the tax road, states with low or no income tax, tax the shit out of you on everything else. Why wouldn't flat tax rate states be more desirable? Like Colorado, PA, Mass, Mich, Carolina?

    Taxes really are a non issue when it comes to athletes.

  13. #873
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    in 4, 5, 6, 7 years... Then that's still a lottery team
    I don't think anyone is on board with going over 5 years. I seriously hope the Rangers aren't. Shoot for 4, agree to 5. You probably get 3 solid years out of him then transition him to 3rd line PP specialist and or try to trade him.

    I don't see a fit for a top six role within the system, not within the next 3 years. I don't want to waste Panarin and Zibs prime years. Which IMO will be the next 2-3 years.

  14. #874
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    He’s not going to sign a 4 or 5 year contract.
    Lias Andersson for #AJT2019

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    The Rangers are prime examples of RFA's signing deals equal to UFA's.

    Trouba was a RFA. Fuckin guy got 8 mill.
    Brady Skjei. 5.25 for his 2nd contract...

    People are saying DeAngelo can ask for 7 mill ( I disagree) after one good season. They say that because it seems RFAs are getting paid.

    Why do you think people talk about buying out UFA years when signing RFAs? It definitely has more to do with a player being closer to UFA than it does with kids coming off the ELCs, but not always hence the 2.5 mill overpayment that is Skjei.
    Um. No. High RFA contracts are the byproduct of two reasons.

    1. Risk minimization regarding future deals. Letís use the Derek Stepan contract as an example. When Stepan and McDonagh were initially bridged, Stepan and McDonagh wanted matching deals. We all know the contract McDonagh got and how it was a bargain for a large portion of its length. Stepan instead got a bridge deal which was followed up by a $6.5M deal that ended up being too bloated. If you put Stepan on that initial $4.7M deal then he probably never gets dealt in 2017 because of his contract being prohibitive of other moves. Brady Skjei is just what happens when you take that risk to get a player for cheaper than a future anticipated cost and it doesnít work. He was expected to be McDonaghís successor. It didnít work. Zibanejad is another example comparable to McDonagh. They couldíve bridged him but instead signed him to a $5.35M deal that is now an absolute bargain with two more years left. But ďthe Rangers are prime examples of RFAs signing deals equal to UFAs.Ē Give me a break. The only one youíre right about is Trouba and he was a year from UFA. I canít explain his bumblefuck deal but itís more of an exception than the rule.

    2. The game is now a young manís game. Teams are now paying for what they deem to be the most productive years out of NHL players. The greybeards of the NHL arenít as effective in todayís game. That however doesnít mean that UFAs are getting paid less in lieu of RFAs. UFA contracts are higher than ever. For the players that didnít get those big RFA deals but still ended up productive, UFA or even the prospect of UFA bumps up their salary that much. Players who are anticipating UFA or are UFAs are going to want the best deals they can get especially now with careers flaming out just several years after UFA. If you think buyouts are precluding teams from still handing out considerable contracts to UFAs youíre wildly wrong.

    Im sorry you think no income tax is the sole reason for players taking team friendly contracts. If income tax were an issue at all, nobody would want to play in NY. If you're really going down the tax road, states with low or no income tax, tax the shit out of you on everything else. Why wouldn't flat tax rate states be more desirable? Like Colorado, PA, Mass, Mich, Carolina?

    Taxes really are a non issue when it comes to athletes.
    If youíre already playing in the state, which most of the examples mentioned were, why would you turn down a tax free $9.5M on a compatible team for an equivalent salary elsewhere after tax? Itís not a matter of taxes being an issue. Itís the matter of a lower salary being equivalent to a higher salary elsewhere because of taxation. For a team like the Rangers that doesnít matter because they can piss money.

  16. #876
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    I could be wrong but I know CT has a lower income tax rate compared to NY. Isn’t that a large reason so many players declare residence there?

  17. #877
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew a Penalty View Post
    Um. No. High RFA contracts are the byproduct of two reasons.

    1. Risk minimization regarding future deals. Let’s use the Derek Stepan contract as an example. When Stepan and McDonagh were initially bridged, Stepan and McDonagh wanted matching deals. We all know the contract McDonagh got and how it was a bargain for a large portion of its length. Stepan instead got a bridge deal which was followed up by a $6.5M deal that ended up being too bloated. If you put Stepan on that initial $4.7M deal then he probably never gets dealt in 2017 because of his contract being prohibitive of other moves. Brady Skjei is just what happens when you take that risk to get a player for cheaper than a future anticipated cost and it doesn’t work. He was expected to be McDonagh’s successor. It didn’t work. Zibanejad is another example comparable to McDonagh. They could’ve bridged him but instead signed him to a $5.35M deal that is now an absolute bargain with two more years left. But “the Rangers are prime examples of RFAs signing deals equal to UFAs.” Give me a break. The only one you’re right about is Trouba and he was a year from UFA. I can’t explain his bumblefuck deal but it’s more of an exception than the rule.

    2. The game is now a young man’s game. Teams are now paying for what they deem to be the most productive years out of NHL players. The greybeards of the NHL aren’t as effective in today’s game. That however doesn’t mean that UFAs are getting paid less in lieu of RFAs. UFA contracts are higher than ever. For the players that didn’t get those big RFA deals but still ended up productive, UFA or even the prospect of UFA bumps up their salary that much. Players who are anticipating UFA or are UFAs are going to want the best deals they can get especially now with careers flaming out just several years after UFA. If you think buyouts are precluding teams from still handing out considerable contracts to UFAs you’re wildly wrong.



    If you’re already playing in the state, which most of the examples mentioned were, why would you turn down a tax free $9.5M on a compatible team for an equivalent salary elsewhere after tax? It’s not a matter of taxes being an issue. It’s the matter of a lower salary being equivalent to a higher salary elsewhere because of taxation. For a team like the Rangers that doesn’t matter because they can piss money.
    Not exactly sure how you come to the conclusion that Stepan would sign a long term deal at that price at the time of the bridge deal. In the end they bought UFA years on that one too. Thanks for adding another name to the list. I guess we can add Lundqvist to the list. Wanna throw more on there? Girardi? Staal? This team has a habit of extending their RFAs to deals that are higher in annual and in length than they should. I think the amount of cap space held in buy outs should be evidence enough to prove that. Along with the two cap destroyers that are still here in Lundqvist, Staal. There's also Shattenkirk.. But he came here on what was perceived as a team friendly deal, taking less money and less years than he could have gotten elsewhere (we all wish he did).

    I'm sure there are examples for other teams where they over do it in these situations. I'm sorry I'm not providing them.

    I don't recall saying RFAs are getting more than UFAs. Just that they are getting UFA money at younger ages. Hence the whole buying UFA years phrase I keep using. It's a gamble when they do so on younger players such as the Skjei situation. But that's exactly what I'm talking about. You get the younger players for term IF you add extra so they don't hit UFA on your time. Some teams do a better job than others. Somehow the Rangers overpay their mediocre guys, while Boston can get their top tier kids locked in at mediocre prices.. Buyouts aren't just for UFA screw ups. We are entering a time where teams are going to be buying out more and more players just to squeeze the talent (young and old) onto the roster.

    That last paragraph makes no sense. It's not about taxes.. But it's about taxes....? The Rangers can piss money because of this? Huh?

    I think Kreider would take a really team friendly deal.. Leaving money and years on the table. You don't. Can we leave it at that?

  18. #878
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    While playing for Rangers...

    16-17 Krieder 28 G with PP1 time, Grabner 27 from the 3rd line with no PP time.
    17-18 Kreider 16 G in 58 GP, Grabner 25 G in 59 games.
    Just goes to show you the danger of cherry picking stats.

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    I'm still not sure why anyone thinks Krieder would take a team friendly deal when he saw what they've just paid 2 players coming in off the market.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    I'm still not sure why anyone thinks Krieder would take a team friendly deal when he saw what they've just paid 2 players coming in off the market.
    Same reason we hoped Zucc would. Hope.

    I gotta say...Kreider is making this a way, way harder decision than it was a month ago.
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