[friedman] Rangers Are Thinking "More and More" About Keeping Kreider

The goals and points will be naturally replaced by the next player.

 

What you will miss is the speed, size, strength, and net front presence.

That’s what it is.

It’s all those skills in his 6’3” 220lb frame.

But it again brings me back to- what does all of that actually manifest itself in production-wise?

At the end of the day, his numbers are still what they are. While he’s on pace to set a career high in goals and maybe break 30 for the first time, he’s still on average about a 25/50+ guy over the last 5 years. While that’s very good production, I don’t see it as worth a 6 or 7 year commitment and $40-50 million to a 29-year-old player.

He can be replaced. Not simple. But doable.

All of the traits dont have to be found in 1 person.

Just like when someone leaves a company, sometimes other employees pick up a bit more responsibility and have a chance to grow.

We see the points, and that's tremendous...but his defensive liability is "clear and present danger" for a playoff team. I think ADA's big value to a playoff team is his PP potential. I could understand that may be limiting his value a touch.

He's a young Tyson Barrie, imo.

Can Lemieux grow and hack it as a Kreider replacement?

Which part?

You cant look for a "Kreider replacement". If that's the case, you re-sign him. You look for guys that can take on the Kreider's previous roles for different situations.

Could he replace forechecking, some in-front net time, sure, he can help fill the void.

Wasn't a pending UFA.

 

 

 

Ditto.

 

 

 

Again.

 

 

 

Signed as a UFA.

 

 

 

RFA

 

 

 

Just gonna save time here and point you to the above.

 

 

 

Maybe Alex Steen. Perron, I'll give you, but he's also had bad injury history and was streaky up until recent.

 

 

 

Three words. No income tax.

So RFAs get less??? Not anymore.

No income tax isn't that big step f a booster. Otherwise everyone would sign with the Panthers the Lighting, the Stars, and Vegas. Nobody wants to play in any of those states.

So RFAs get less??? Not anymore.

Sure. Elite RFAs. Look at how many are getting scaled back now on shorter deals. You're of a select few that don't see a difference between RFAs and UFAs.

No income tax isn't that big step f a booster. Otherwise everyone would sign with the Panthers the Lighting, the Stars, and Vegas. Nobody wants to play in any of those states.

Because all players are concerned with taxes? No one wants to play for playoff teams?

All of the traits dont have to be found in 1 person.

 

Just like when someone leaves a company, sometimes other employees pick up a bit more responsibility and have a chance to grow.

That’s been my point all along. Totally agree

If hypothetically, they were to down the road find a speedy winger to take his spot who scores 20-25, but maybe isn’t suited for an in front of the net type role on the PP, maybe there’s a guy who sees a regular shift as a 3rd liner who provides that.

That’s been my point all along. Totally agree

 

If hypothetically, they were to down the road find a speedy winger to take his spot who scores 20-25, but maybe isn’t suited for an in front of the net type role on the PP, maybe there’s a guy who sees a regular shift as a 3rd liner who provides that.

Yea a few of us have said this. No, you're never going to replace the entire package.

But, as an example, you think Kakko gives you the sizes and hands around the net, someone else gives you speed on the forecheck, someone else doesn't show up for weeks at a time, etc.

This gets thrown around so often but I feel it's never actually supported well. What is it that he brings that's so irreplaceable? Okay, he's fast. So was Grabner. So was Hagelin. He's not nearly as physical of a player as he was five years ago. He doesn't offer much in terms of a two-way game. He's not a prolific scorer.

 

I don't know if camaraderie and a net-front presence are qualities deserving of $7M salary.

 

 

 

Both the Blues and Bruins have prospects or young NHL players that would make for very good returns on Kreider. He's the top player available on the market. I'm not too concerned on the return.

People mentioned DeBrusk weeks ago. I'd take him in a heartbeat especially if he comes with a 1st or even a 2nd.

If we ended up fading and decided to be sellers, I wonder what approaching a hockey trade of Kreider+ for Forsberg in NSH. They aren't far from a playoff spot, we would get our immediate replacement with a 6m cap hit for a few more years.

 

Might have to be something along the lines of Kreider + ADA for Forsberg and a 2nd that becomes a 1st if either player re-signs for them. Forsberg has shown the potential to take that next step but he's never 100% gotten there without regressing soon there after.

I'd be all over that. Forsberg is noice.

but they didnt come with his size and strength ,plus he is a better offensive player then they were

While playing for Rangers...

16-17 Krieder 28 G with PP1 time, Grabner 27 from the 3rd line with no PP time.

17-18 Kreider 16 G in 58 GP, Grabner 25 G in 59 games.

All of the traits dont have to be found in 1 person.

 

Just like when someone leaves a company, sometimes other employees pick up a bit more responsibility and have a chance to grow.

So are we thinking a guy like Maroon or a comparable sized guy can play on a line with Zib? I feel Kreiders net presence is a big attribute that helps Zib play more freely. Not sure that it's easy to replace what he brings to that line. Do we think Zib will continue on HIS career best season (right?) if Kreider goes? I'm not saying they can't change the dynamic of that line. They can. But with who? Who talented enough in the system to play on the top line by next season? Kakko? Please don't say Kravstov. Do they go with Lemieux? They have zero options.

People mentioned DeBrusk weeks ago. I'd take him in a heartbeat especially if he comes with a 1st or even a 2nd.

Absolutely. I think he's the exact type of player you need to be going for. Kyrou is the same vein but a little bit further back in his development. Get prospects that are right on the cusp or a young roster player. They need a young presence to step in now and not in 3 years.

Sure. Elite RFAs. Look at how many are getting scaled back now on shorter deals. You're of a select few that don't see a difference between RFAs and UFAs.

 

 

 

Because all players are concerned with taxes? No one wants to play for playoff teams?

Please list all the big free agents these teams have signed. Pre AND post salary cap. They draw dick for FA's.

Please list all the big free agents these teams have signed. Pre AND post salary cap. They draw dick for FA's.

Bobrovsky just signed in Florida. His $10M is shit, but that's a two time Vezina winner signing on the open market for below Carey Price.

Radulov, an example you gave, went to Dallas. Pavelski this past summer. Corey Perry sucks but he also went there.

Tampa hasn't gone big fish hunting of late because they haven't had to. They've drafted, developed or traded for anything they've needed and then retained them all for peanuts.

Vegas has only been around two seasons. Stastny signed there. Pacioretty re-signed. Stone basically only wanted to go there.

Do you really not think the quality of the teams plays into it at all?

Yea a few of us have said this. No, you're never going to replace the entire package.

 

But, as an example, you think Kakko gives you the sizes and hands around the net, someone else gives you speed on the forecheck, someone else doesn't show up for weeks at a time, etc.

Yes

I know I’m not the only one. Hope I didn’t sound like the lone voice in the wilderness.

Also with Kreider,

Doesn’t shoot well

Doesn’t play well in neutral or D zones

Doesn’t kill penalties

If people want to talk about what he is as a player, they need to look at ALL of it.

So are we thinking a guy like Maroon or a comparable sized guy can play on a line with Zib? I feel Kreiders net presence is a big attribute that helps Zib play more freely. Not sure that it's easy to replace what he brings to that line. Do we think Zib will continue on HIS career best season (right?) if Kreider goes? I'm not saying they can't change the dynamic of that line. They can. But with who? Who talented enough in the system to play on the top line by next season? Kakko? Please don't say Kravstov. Do they go with Lemieux? They have zero options.

The only thing I disagree with here is that Kreider is the #2 LW here. And that’s a perfect spot for him. He’s also going to be the worst top 6 forward, and hopefully there are a 1 or 2 third liners pushing. $7m?

but they didnt come with his size and strength ,plus he is a better offensive player then they were

 

Yes

I know I?m not the only one. Hope I didn?t sound like the lone voice in the wilderness.

 

Also with Kreider,

Doesn?t shoot well

Doesn?t play well in neutral or D zones

Doesn?t kill penalties

 

If people want to talk about what he is as a player, they need to look at ALL of it.

Add:

Doesn't walk on water

Doesn't heal the sick

Doesn't say forgive Torterella, he knows not what he is doing

While playing for Rangers...

 

16-17 Krieder 28 G with PP1 time, Grabner 27 from the 3rd line with no PP time.

17-18 Kreider 16 G in 58 GP, Grabner 25 G in 59 games.

thats why they say speed kills

i like kreider ,i think he is our thir d best forward ,which tells you that he isnt so easy to replace,but i dont want to kill our development ,so if our return is good and we cant sign because he wants too much$$$$ i have no problem trading him.

but to say he is easy to replace is kind of silly

Bobrovsky just signed in Florida. His $10M is shit, but that's a two time Vezina winner signing on the open market for below Carey Price.

 

Radulov, an example you gave, went to Dallas. Pavelski this past summer. Corey Perry sucks but he also went there.

 

Tampa hasn't gone big fish hunting of late because they haven't had to. They've drafted, developed or traded for anything they've needed and then retained them all for peanuts.

 

Vegas has only been around two seasons. Stastny signed there. Pacioretty re-signed. Stone basically only wanted to go there.

 

 

 

Do you really not think the quality of the teams plays into it at all?

None of these guys took lesser deals with the income tax being the balance factor. Maybe Pach, but he was a scrap heap pickup.

Bob went where ever he was getting paid. Nobody was giving him that money.

Pav is an ok example. He's old as fuck and so is Perry. Radulov went to whoever had cap space and was a contender...I'd say he fits my narrative more than yours.

Quality of team definitely fits into it. Comfortability, liking the area, the organization, the direction... All things that go into a home town discount.

I think Kreider likes it here. Likes his teammates, wants to be apart of what is evolving... Yeah. Quality of the team. Are you agreeing with me now or what?

I'd say he fits my narrative more than yours.

Right. Radulov gave a hometown discount to...Dallas. LOL.

What did going on this tangent prove exactly? You still don't have a good example for a considerable discount for a UFA equivalent to $1M per season.

The only thing I disagree with here is that Kreider is the #2 LW here. And that’s a perfect spot for him. He’s also going to be the worst top 6 forward, and hopefully there are a 1 or 2 third liners pushing. $7m?

Worst top 6 forward? How do? Panarin and Zib have him beat. There ARE NO top 6 forwards here save for them. Kreider isn't the #2 LW?

Not grasping what you're trying to say here. Is 7 mill really a lot for your third best forward?