[friedman] Rangers Are Thinking "More and More" About Keeping Kreider

Signing Staal, Girardi, Lundqvist, Smith, etc. when they were "useful pieces" like Kreider, and we'd need them when we were ready to compete... is how they got here. Kreider is a useful piece, today. He probably is going to be a third liner when they're ready to compete.

 

The major issue with Kreider, is term. You simply can't pay players who aren't elite top dollar past the age of 32/33. It's bonkers to take the risk.

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We?d all love Kreider at 6.5-7 million for two years, maybe three.

After that though....

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Kreider keeps in better shape than anyone on the team, maybe the league. Yes, he will eventually slow down but I'd argue there's more to his game than just that. Strong on the puck. Strong in front of the net. He goes to the dirty areas without pause. Rangers would struggle without him

 

You can absolutely overpay in term/rate to a player here or there if you properly manage that side of the business. This FO doesn't. They're in a fullblown rebuild and have been squeezed on the cap side of things since day 1 and it's never really let up. That's bonkers.

If they weren't morons, they could absolutely afford to give Kreider virtually whatever he wants with minimal impact down the line. Instead they have 18 million in dead cap space next year, including a goalie that just can't take a hint.

Again, it's fine to trade Kreider, just understand we're not getting anything back to write home about, and the money saved is ultimately just going to cover up the multitude of previous mistakes they made that even the most amateur of armchair GMs saw coming from miles away.

You can absolutely overpay in term/rate to a player here or there if you properly manage that side of the business. This FO doesn't. They're in a fullblown rebuild and have been squeezed on the cap side of things since day 1 and it's never really let up. That's bonkers.

 

If they weren't morons, they could absolutely afford to give Kreider virtually whatever he wants with minimal impact down the line. Instead they have 18 million in dead cap space next year, including a goalie that just can't take a hint.

 

Again, it's fine to trade Kreider, just understand we're not getting anything back to write home about, and the money saved is ultimately just going to cover up the multitude of previous mistakes they made that even the most amateur of armchair GMs saw coming from miles away.

And why would a pay a 2nd liner about to be a 3rd liner "whatever he wants?"

Pay Kreider whatever he wants with minimal impact... Is just inaccurate.

 

And why would a pay a 2nd liner about to be a 3rd liner "whatever he wants?"

Within reason, say 7x7. If that's your only overpay because you've done a good job managing your situation, you're fine.

This Orgs problem is that all their problems have piled in one season, 2020-2021, and they can't get the math to work beyond it. I can't accept that fact as anything but their bungling.

As it stands today, no, you absolutely have to deal him if what Brooks is reporting is true.

But it's not stopping them from doing anything except making another mistake with a contract.

The logic of "I want to make a mistake with Kreider but can't because of all other mistakes" is still mind boggling.

Within reason, say 7x7. If that's your only overpay because you've done a good job managing your situation, you're fine.

 

This Orgs problem is that all their problems have piled in one season, 2020-2021, and they can't get the math to work beyond it. I can't accept that fact as anything but their bungling.

 

As it stands today, no, you absolutely have to deal him if what Brooks is reporting is true.

You can absolutely overpay in term/rate to a player here or there if you properly manage that side of the business. This FO doesn't. They're in a fullblown rebuild and have been squeezed on the cap side of things since day 1 and it's never really let up. That's bonkers.

 

If they weren't morons, they could absolutely afford to give Kreider virtually whatever he wants with minimal impact down the line. Instead they have 18 million in dead cap space next year, including a goalie that just can't take a hint.

 

Again, it's fine to trade Kreider, just understand we're not getting anything back to write home about, and the money saved is ultimately just going to cover up the multitude of previous mistakes they made that even the most amateur of armchair GMs saw coming from miles away.

Totally agree that past sins in contracts have hurt this team.

Also agree that you can go above market once in a while, especially to keep one of your own.

One could argue though that they did that with Staal and Girardi, both of whom were both still very good when they got their contracts.

Kreider though might be the true “price” for financial mistakes. However, I’m willing to pay that price if it’s ending that habit.

And don’t count Trouba.

Jury is out there and he’s clearly still adjusting, in a very flawed system, and dragging a partner who isn’t good in his own end.

Pay Kreider whatever he wants with minimal impact... Is just inaccurate.

 

And why would a pay a 2nd liner about to be a 3rd liner "whatever he wants?"

2nd liner about to be a 3rd liner? That's a little much, no? Isn't Zib, Kreider, Buch the 1st line now? And when are you projecting him to fall behind anyone on the Chytl, DiG, Kakko line? None of them are near ready for that role (including Chytil) and I can't imagine that they would bump him next year either.

2nd liner about to be a 3rd liner? That's a little much.

Agreed, it’s not like we are talking about Strome

I just think he'd be a much better mistake to make. For now, obviously and the near future, but I also see intangibles there for his twilight years, don't think he'll crater nearly as bad as you obviously think he will, and who the fuck knows about five years from now, there could be any number of options to shed the contract if deemed necessary.

I definitely don't think this guy is going to tail off. Watching Marleau last night and how he could still fly and take over a play made me think of how Kreider will be when HE is 36+. Guy is in too good of shape to lose his legs and doesn't have the miles of injuries most big men have at his age. It comes down to production. Kreider as much as I love the guy, has never been consistent enough. I mean he's consistently a 40-50 point guy whom you always thought could do more... But here we are. At age 28, just now having that breakthrough season. We can't expect them to pay up. It's a long line of bad contracts that they are still dealing with, that makes overpaying or giving what he can get on the open market a no go.

I was hoping he'd leave money and years on the table, but you can't blame him for asking for the sky.

That Shattenkirk deal was really stupid. I agree with whoever said it earlier. What a waste inba time they KNEW it was soon to be torn down.

I definitely don't think this guy is going to tail off. Watching Marleau last night and how he could still flu and take over a play made me think of how Kreider will be when HE is 36+. Guy is in too good of shape to lose his legs and doesn't have the miles of injuries most big men have at his age. It comes down to production. Kreider as much as I love the guy, has never been consistent enough. I mean he's consistently a 40-50 point guy whom you always thought could do more... But here we are. At age 28, just now having that breakthrough season. We can't expect them to pay up. It's a long line of bad contracts that they are still dealing with, that makes overpaying or giving what he can get on the open market a no go.

 

I was hoping he'd leave money and years on the table, but you can't blame him for asking for the sky.

 

That Shattenkirk deal was really stupid. I agree with whoever said it earlier. What a waste inba time they KNEW it was soon to be torn down.

That’s a pretty good assessment. If he were to agree to 6.5x6 I’d be all over it. At 7 I’m still interested but something has to concede here. Personally I don’t see him turning into a 15 goal guy 4 years from now. I do think though letting him walk regresses us severely for a year or two at a time where I think we have turned a corner. I really wish this wasn’t happening.

That’s a pretty good assessment. If he were to agree to 6.5x6 I’d be all over it. At 7 I’m still interested but something has to concede here. Personally I don’t see him turning into a 15 goal guy 4 years from now. I do think though letting him walk regresses us severely for a year or two at a time where I think we have turned a corner. I really wish this wasn’t happening.

Here's where Lundqvist agreeing to a trade and a team actually wanting him as well as dumping Skjei AND attaching picks to Smith to get anyone to take him (same for Staal) is where they could cover all bases AND give Kreider something decent. I guess it's just not possible. Teams aren't taking the Rangers spare parts in any effort to help them. Sadly I think stapling picks to Staal and Smith COULD HAVE gotten those contracts off the books. I just think Gorton doesn't want flack for trading picks during a rebuild. At this point sending a 2nd or 3rd rounder with such players is going to have to be a must. The players aren't THAT bad. They can still play. It's just thst money.

You know, I was thinking about this earlier. I wonder if instead of offering a guy like Henrik to the Avs, why not try and sell them on trading Hank and Georgiev together? Take back Grubauer. They get one playoff goalie and another rfa to use as a chip themselves or retain after the season for the future.

We only bring back 3.3m. Free up 5m. Makes it a bit easier this offseason especially if we move Smith

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We?d all love Kreider at 6.5-7 million for two years, maybe three.

 

After that though....

 

 

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You know, I was thinking about this earlier. I wonder if instead of offering a guy like Henrik to the Avs, why not try and sell them on trading Hank and Georgiev together? Take back Grubauer. They get one playoff goalie and another rfa to use as a chip themselves or retain after the season for the future.

 

We only bring back 3.3m. Free up 5m. Makes it a bit easier this offseason especially if we move Smith

Depends on how much they like Grubauer. He did well when healthy. Rangers obviously have to eat salary on Lundqvist for it to even be thought about.

They'd have to be big believers in Lundqvist.

Depends on how much they like Grubauer. He did well when healthy. Rangers obviously have to eat salary on Lundqvist for it to even be thought about.

 

They'd have to be big believers in Lundqvist.

I’m not so sure they have to eat too much salary. They are taking back 3.3m in Grub so that basically is like the salary retention. They do have some offseason decisions but they have about 21m in cap space this offseason. Obviously that would be 5m less with Hank coming in and Grub going our way

2nd liner about to be a 3rd liner? That's a little much, no? Isn't Zib, Kreider, Buch the 1st line now? And when are you projecting him to fall behind anyone on the Chytl, DiG, Kakko line? None of them are near ready for that role (including Chytil) and I can't imagine that they would bump him next year either.

He's 29. Do you see him getting better?

He will be a third liner making $7 million a year by the time this team is making serious noise. The same people making threads about having a serious talk with Hank will be bitching about Krieder.

It's like we see what happens to players like Kreider all over the league but refuse to admit that age catches up with players like him faster than others.

To Josh's point, Kreider production is 2nd line production.

 

He's 29. Do you see him getting better?

 

He will be a third liner making $7 million a year by the time this team is making serious noise. The same people making threads about having a serious talk with Hank will be bitching about Krieder.

 

It's like we see what happens to players like Kreider all over the league but refuse to admit that age catches up with players like him faster than others.

Don’t have to look around the league -

Girardi, Staal, Lundqvist

Smith, Richards, Stepan, Skjei

Long, expensive contracts for older players don’t work out

Looking through contracts Gorton has given out, Smith and Shattenkirk we’re both 28 and got 4 years. Don’t see any older guys getting longer deals.

Good sign

At this point best case scenario is that they get a nice return for Kreider. Wherever he ends up, he sucks and that knocks some price off the contract we sign him to in the summer.

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