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Thread: Rangers Are Thinking "More and More" About Keeping Kreider

  1. #181
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    Keeping him means getting rid of someone else. Strome & Deangelo, Zibanejad, Panarin, Fox, etc. it’s a salary cap world
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    Yeah, Buch and Skjei.

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    I feel the same about Kreider as I mentioned in the Kakko to AHL thread. A yoyo. Do I wanna see him re-sign for 7x7? Fuck no, GOODBYE! However, if he took a hometown discount contract like a 5x5, welllllllll, I might be able to stomach that. I try not to let my fandom get in the way of reality but sometimes it is kind of hard to do. He sure is lighting it up at the right time though...depending how you look at it.

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by RangersIn7 View Post
    They don’t need to replace him immediately. They’re not winning a cup next year either.

    And guys do become available. It happens regularly.

    Do you honestly believe they should keep him and pay him roughly $7million per till he’s 34-36?


    He wants to take less, I’m all about it.
    Look, I like the guy.
    But extensions like that have killed them .
    This could be in that same vein
    Why can't they compete for a cup next year? They just need a ticket to the dance which I think they'll certainly achieve next year... maybe even this year

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by RangersIn7 View Post
    No
    I’m not suggesting that

    I get where you’re coming from. He has a skill set not all too common given his frame.
    But that skill set and “what he does for you on the ice” still only produces about 25 and 50.
    Good numbers and contributions. I’m not arguing that
    But hardly irreplaceable.

    And it doesn’t have to come in the way of 1 player either. Once again, doesn’t have to be replaced immediately.

    My point is we aren’t replacing early-90’s Brett Hull.
    This isn’t a guy that teams have to specifically game plan on a nightly basis to stop.

    He’s a nice complimentary piece. And I like him. Just not at what he’ll likely get paid without leaving money on the table
    Don’t know how he’s become so revered as irreplaceable and essential
    Yes, if you view everyone in the vacuum of "how many points do you score?" Kreider, the player, is more than that. There are aspects of his game that are, in fact, irreplaceable. Namely his net-front presence, his combination of speed and size, and his playoff experience — all of which are going to become significantly more valuable as the team rounds the corner from rebuild to contention. I'd venture a guess that were they to move him, conversations about acquiring someone just like him would be all too common a year from now.

    The Devil you know...

    And you never answered my question
    I'm torn on it still. It's entirely dependent on both term and dollars for me. 7x7? I'd deal him, more so because of the latter. If it's, say, 7x5? I think I'd be OK with that, and I'd happily move on from someone like Buch to make room for him.
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  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
    Why can't they compete for a cup next year? They just need a ticket to the dance which I think they'll certainly achieve next year... maybe even this year

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk
    Presuming growth from young players and a few key additions again this summer, I see no reason why this team isn't a playoff team as soon as next season, and given their construction, I also see no reason why they can't make noise. Cup contention? I dunno. I'd err on the side of caution there, but only because I don't want to get burned. It wouldn't shock me at all to see them go on a run as that tough-to-play-against, ultra-talented club with just the right pieces in the right places to pull off the upsets required.
    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If you’re a good loser, you’re a loser."
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  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    Yes, if you view everyone in the vacuum of "how many points do you score?" Kreider, the player, is more than that. There are aspects of his game that are, in fact, irreplaceable. Namely his net-front presence, his combination of speed and size, and his playoff experience — all of which are going to become significantly more valuable as the team rounds the corner from rebuild to contention. I'd venture a guess that were they to move him, conversations about acquiring someone just like him would be all too common a year from now.

    The Devil you know...



    I'm torn on it still. It's entirely dependent on both term and dollars for me. 7x7? I'd deal him, more so because of the latter. If it's, say, 7x5? I think I'd be OK with that, and I'd happily move on from someone like Buch to make room for him.
    I agree that there are other aspects to his game that have value
    But his production in actual terms and what they will cost are still far and away the most important things.
    I’d be ok with 7x5 too. And I’d gladly sacrifice Butch as I don’t think he’d be here long term anyway. There’s not going to be space for him anyway.
    But he can get 7 x7 on the market.
    Someone will pay him that

    I like Kreider too.
    But the Kreider lovers focus so much on what he does when he’s hot, they ignore his extreme streakiness, and the disappearing act that’s associated.
    He’s never put it together for more than stretches.

    He’s hot right now. 10 G and 8 A in last 18 games.
    He had 6 G and 11 total points in the previous 28 games.
    Hyper productive now
    Very little for a full third of the season prior

    His skill set still only manifests itself in what he produces
    We know what he produces and that much of it comes from nice hot streak

    As for the leadership and experience I get that. But this young group will gain its own experience and find its own leaders.

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by RangersIn7 View Post
    I agree that there are other aspects to his game that have value
    But his production in actual terms and what they will cost are still far and away the most important things.
    I’d be ok with 7x5 too. And I’d gladly sacrifice Butch as I don’t think he’d be here long term anyway. There’s not going to be space for him anyway.
    But he can get 7 x7 on the market.
    Someone will pay him that

    I like Kreider too.
    But the Kreider lovers focus so much on what he does when he’s hot, they ignore his extreme streakiness, and the disappearing act that’s associated.
    He’s never put it together for more than stretches.

    He’s hot right now. 10 G and 8 A in last 18 games.
    He had 6 G and 11 total points in the previous 28 games.

    Hyper productive now
    Very little for a full third of the season prior

    His skill set still only manifests itself in what he produces
    We know what he produces and that much of it comes from nice hot streak

    As for the leadership and experience I get that. But this young group will gain its own experience and find its own leaders.
    This is not a great example of "hot" and "cold." 11 points in 28 games is still good, for a "cold streak."

    Nobody is ignoring he has streaks. What people are ignoring is that he does more than put up points or "skate fast."
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  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    This is not a great example of "hot" and "cold." 11 points in 28 games is still good, for a "cold streak."

    Nobody is ignoring he has streaks. What people are ignoring is that he does more than put up points or "skate fast."
    And how critical all of that is going to be for when the team turns the corner, as soon as next season.

    I guarantee if they deal him, we're going to be having conversations about how much the Rangers should give up to acquire inferior versions of him like Alex Tuch, etc. to "beef up" for the playoffs.
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  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    And how critical all of that is going to be for when the team turns the corner, as soon as next season.

    I guarantee if they deal him, we're going to be having conversations about how much the Rangers should give up to acquire inferior versions of him like Alex Tuch, etc. to "beef up" for the playoffs.
    Exactly. Theres absolutely no one on the team that does what he does. You saw it last year when he was hurt, the team sucked.
    GORTON 2020

  11. #191
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    i'd rather start grooming Howden to stand in front of the net and deflect shots than paying Kreider a regrettable amount for a regrettable amount of years.

    you give Kreider a long term contract, you're going to bite your elbows half way thru

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    Exactly. Theres absolutely no one on the team that does what he does. You saw it last year when he was hurt, the team sucked.
    that's ok. Blues won the cup last season and they didn't have Kreider on their roster.

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albatross View Post
    i'd rather start grooming Howden to stand in front of the net and deflect shots than paying Kreider a regrettable amount for a regrettable amount of years.

    you give Kreider a long term contract, you're going to bite your elbows half way thru
    If they win a Cup in the process, you can salt and pepper my elbow, because I'll happily chow down.
    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If you’re a good loser, you’re a loser."
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  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    If they win a Cup in the process, you can salt and pepper my elbow, because I'll happily chow down.
    rangers are at least 5 years away from a serious contention. anything sooner than that is just false hope

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albatross View Post
    that's ok. Blues won the cup last season and they didn't have Kreider on their roster.
    Blues are one of the heaviest teams in the league. You're kinda making my point.
    GORTON 2020

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albatross View Post
    rangers are at least 5 years away from a serious contention. anything sooner than that is just false hope
    Where do these arbitrary "windows" come from. What happens in 5 years?
    GORTON 2020

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albatross View Post
    rangers are at least 5 years away from a serious contention. anything sooner than that is just false hope
    That's impossible to say at this point.

  18. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    Blues are one of the heaviest teams in the league. You're kinda making my point.
    my point is that Kreider is not end all be all for the cup run. by the time the rangers might make a serious run he'd be like 34 years old and a complete burden.
    He gave us good years, there's plenty of other fish out there

  19. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunny View Post
    That's impossible to say at this point.
    want to bet?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    This is not a great example of "hot" and "cold." 11 points in 28 games is still good, for a "cold streak."

    Nobody is ignoring he has streaks. What people are ignoring is that he does more than put up points or "skate fast."
    I’m not ignoring that he does other things
    I think he’s good around the net and the value that has

    I just don’t think that’s worth $50 million bucks till he’s 36
    You specifically called him a power forward in an earlier post

    How many power forwards are great past 32/33?
    Not a ton. And the ones that have been, many are HOF’ers. Kreider isn’t in that class.
    Playing in those areas exacts a heavy toll.
    And that speed will go too eventually regardless of his conditioning

    But I’ll say again, I love him at 5 years and around 7 million.
    I think he’s got 3-4 nice seasons in him. I can live with 1-2 seasons of him as a diminished player who is paid above his value.

    What I can’t live with and what will come back to bite them is 3-4 seasons of him as a diminished player making way more than his actual value.

    You’re betting against history if you expect to get your money’s worth on him if he’s paid till age 36.

    Risky thing to do with a young group that will need to get paid itself in that time span.

    Yes I know the cap will go up and other contracts will come off the books
    But prices on guys will go up and others will be in the mix too

    We can debate this till we are blue in the face.
    But he’s almost certainly a goner in 6 weeks. Doubtful there’s an extension coming in that span.
    And I also think his agent is pushing him to go to market
    He’d be a fool not to

    They can touch base with him again in July.
    Then we’ll see

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