[friedman] Georgiev is in Rangers' Long-Term Plans?

Agree on not straight up. I think they need 2 pieces of some value too.

Would you feel differently if it was a high 2nd?

Yes. Then it's a shade less than a late 1st, and I think that's about fair value with a B prospect included.

Plus, Bracco is NHL ready. What I mean by that is he is proven at the AHL level and needs an opportunity to boom or bust in the NHL. Perfect for the Rangers right now.

Edit: I see you said essentially the same thing re: Bracco in one of your following posts I just read. I think we're on the same page.

Yes. Then it's a shade less than a late 1st, and I think that's about fair value with a B prospect included.

 

Plus, Bracco is NHL ready. What I mean by that is he is proven at the AHL level and needs an opportunity to boom or bust in the NHL. Perfect for the Rangers right now.

 

Edit: I see you said essentially the same thing re: Bracco in one of your following posts I just read. I think we're on the same page.

Totally

I’d probably do it though for Bracco and Toronto’s 2, unless they had a better offer. It’s not a perfect return. But certainly fair and in the ballpark.

And not that it’s a huge deal, but they currently don’t have a 2.

I think if the Leafs really like Bracco, they'd have no issue trading Johnsson to us for Georgie. Then they could just slot Bracco into that vacancy. I worry when a team skips a "prospect" repeatedly.

Don’t think they want to move forward with a rookie in the top-9 when they’re trying to make a Cup run and have to go through Boston and Tampa to do so, just in their own division. I think they’d have to be moving one of those forwards for a D to create a hole like that. Can’t do it for a backup goalie.

I don’t think they’re skipping him. They’re just loaded up front and all their wingers are established guys that they like. And Bracco is an offensive kid. Needs to play top 9. Not gonna bring him up to play 4th line minutes or in a role he’s not suited for.

I think if the Leafs really like Bracco, they'd have no issue trading Johnsson to us for Georgie. Then they could just slot Bracco into that vacancy. I worry when a team skips a "prospect" repeatedly.

I think Leafs brass has soured on Bracco as a member of their org, or at least that's how Mirtle made it sound on Blueshirts Breakaway.

I mean, you?re not getting a high pick + a prospect like Bracco for a backup goalie. Certainly not a young, unproven goaltender with less than 70 games under his belt. That?s literally never happened before.

If that?s what they?re looking for it?s not going to happen.

And like I said, the Rangers ask suggests they?re not really looking to move him unless someone comes up with a ridiculous offer.

Varlamov was traded for a 1st and 2nd before he had 60 games, but he was a 1st round pick and had really good numbers in KHL and the few games he played in the NHL.

Honestly I have no idea what Georgiev is worth. Normally goalies won?t return much, but Rangers are asking for a lot and some people are saying Kapanen isnt enough. Sounds weird, but I dont know. Toronto have a huge problem they need to fix asap, could end up overpaying.

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Varlamov was traded for a 1st and 2nd before he had 60 games, but he was a 1st round pick and had really good numbers in KHL and the few games he played in the NHL.

 

Honestly I have no idea what Georgiev is worth. Normally goalies won’t return much, but Rangers are asking for a lot and some people are saying Kapanen isnt enough. Sounds weird, but I dont know. Toronto have a huge problem they need to fix asap, could end up overpaying.

 

 

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It’s a bigger problem than they’d like to admit.

Andersen is good

But he’s playing too much. Right now he’s started 80% of their games. Even with them not having many back to backs rest of the way, that’s a huge workload. And he’s struggled some.

They’re essentially giving points away when he doesn’t start. Outside looking in right now. Boston and Tampa are separating and Florida is playing well. If they’re looking WC, Carolina and Columbus aren’t going to be easy to beat out for spots, and there’s other teams still alive too.

Gotta solve that issue

I mean, you’re not getting a high pick + a prospect like Bracco for a backup goalie. Certainly not a young, unproven goaltender with less than 70 games under his belt. That’s literally never happened before.

If that’s what they’re looking for it’s not going to happen.

And like I said, the Rangers ask suggests they’re not really looking to move him unless someone comes up with a ridiculous offer.

I don’t think they’d get that either. I said ideal meaning within reasonable parameters, that’s probably the hope

A roster player is a big ask for him. I think if they’re looking for that, it’s unrealistic

Bracco and their 2 is fine and fair.

I don’t think they’d get that either. I said ideal meaning within reasonable parameters, that’s probably the hope

A roster player is a big ask for him. I think if they’re looking for that, it’s unrealistic

Bracco and their 2 is fine and fair.

I think that's still a big ask, but it depends on how they're thinking. I was listening to the Breakaway interview with Mirtle, and I think he makes a lot of sense.

If their thinking is they're looking for someone to ease Andersen's workload down the stretch, and be the backup next season there's no way they're giving up that much. Keep in mind, if the idea is to stick with Andersen and re sign him they'd have to leave Georgiev unprotected for the expansion. And Georgiev is still unproven in the NHL, no matter how we might feel about him.

However, if they're considering moving on from Andersen and feel Georgiev has the potential to be a number one, or a 1a/1b type in a tandem then a deal like that might be possible.

In any case, I think the Rangers are playing it the right way at this point. Like Mirtle said, a lot will come down to how things pan out for the Leafs leading up to the deadline. They might get desparate if things spiral downwards. There is no immediate rush for the Rangers to accept any deal, although the risk is of course that if things pan out for the Leads they're not going to be bent backwards over Georgiev.

Here’s Wheeler’s take on Bracco from his prospect pool ranking out today:

3. Jeremy Bracco, RW, 22 (Toronto Marlies)

 

Bracco is a lot of things but he’s also not a lot of things, which has contributed to a polarizing conversation around him as a player, a conversation I believe often does a poor job of truly identifying the gray area. He is one of the better passers outside the NHL and certainly within the entire Leafs organization. He is a dynamic power-play specialist who can break teams down through traffic. He is an excellent skater on his inside and outside edges, which coupled with excellent hands to allow him to hang onto the puck, draw attention and open up those aforementioned passing lanes. He is the kind of player who makes his linemates better and creates more dangerous opportunities for them than they’re capable of creating on their own. He is, despite reduced production, having another good year at the AHL level as a go-to offensive creator whose 5.9 shooting percentage suggests he’s owed a few more goals. But he isn’t an athlete and that contributes to mediocre pace and a weak shot (though it is accurate). And he isn’t big, which can limit his ability to play on the inside (some players can make a perimeter style work though). And while he does a good job of tracking the play and staying above the puck, he isn’t a standout defensive player. Maybe most importantly, he isn’t a member of an organization that lacks depth at right wing and needs some offensive flair. Plus he isn’t ever going to play the left wing, given that whole heel-to-heel thing (pictured below). When Bracco opens up, he always leads with his right foot, using it to guide his direction as his left pushes. This means that when driving into the offensive zone, he opens up his hips to push down the right-wing wall. The only time you’ll see him use it on the left wall is if he has circled the net and he’s tracking back towards the blue line.

 

Could he contribute at the NHL level and improve the Leafs’ power play? I do not doubt that he could. But unless the Leafs run into injury trouble or trade Kasperi Kapanen, he’s at a bit of an impasse.

I mean, I’m not dying to get him having read that.

http://Wheeler’s 2020 NHL prospect pool rankings: No. 21 Toronto Maple Leafs https://theathletic.com/1548161/2020/01/23/wheelers-2020-nhl-prospect-pool-rankings-no-21-toronto-maple-leafs/?source=shared-article

Here?s Wheeler?s take on Bracco from his prospect pool ranking out today:

 

 

 

I mean, I?m not dying to get him having read that.

 

http://Wheeler?s 2020 NHL prospect pool rankings: No. 21 Toronto Maple Leafs https://theathletic.com/1548161/2020/01/23/wheelers-2020-nhl-prospect-pool-rankings-no-21-toronto-maple-leafs/?source=shared-article

No, we need some bottom six beef.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=169587

They could certainly use an upgrade. Reimer has been very good in a limited role. Mrazek much less so as the starter.

Both are nothing more than stop gaps. Neither of their AHL goalies are particularly appealing, either.

I'm not sure Georgiev is a huge upgrade on Mrazek or Reimer, but they may feel he is.

I just asked a Canes scout who says no in Georgiev/Gauthier swap. I'll post the answer.

Regardless of what we might feel about Bracco, I still think the ask is too high if we want a realistic chance of a trade.

Put it another way. If Gorton traded our 3rd best prospect and a high pick for a backup goalie with 65 NHL games to his name people would be fucking furious. And rightly so.

Regardless of what we might feel about Bracco, I still think the ask is too high if we want a realistic chance of a trade.

Put it another way. If Gorton traded our 3rd best prospect and a high pick for a backup goalie with 65 NHL games to his name people would be fucking furious. And rightly so.

If we didn't have our goalie pipeline and we traded from and area of strength, say K'Andre, for at worst a solid tandem goalie... Would I hate that? Dunno, really.

"Not my fukin headache, Reg, I watch kids, let's get a pint"

So much for that.

I think that's still a big ask, but it depends on how they're thinking. I was listening to the Breakaway interview with Mirtle, and I think he makes a lot of sense.

 

If their thinking is they're looking for someone to ease Andersen's workload down the stretch, and be the backup next season there's no way they're giving up that much. Keep in mind, if the idea is to stick with Andersen and re sign him they'd have to leave Georgiev unprotected for the expansion. And Georgiev is still unproven in the NHL, no matter how we might feel about him.

However, if they're considering moving on from Andersen and feel Georgiev has the potential to be a number one, or a 1a/1b type in a tandem then a deal like that might be possible.

 

In any case, I think the Rangers are playing it the right way at this point. Like Mirtle said, a lot will come down to how things pan out for the Leafs leading up to the deadline. They might get desparate if things spiral downwards. There is no immediate rush for the Rangers to accept any deal, although the risk is of course that if things pan out for the Leads they're not going to be bent backwards over Georgiev.

Yeah

I listened to that as well. Hearing Mirtle put it out there like Bracco is on the outs there now gives me pause on getting this kid.

Totally agree they should wait and that it?s the right way.

And I?m still cool with them waiting till summer. They can do that if they want. A few moths of this isn?t great, but it?s entirely possible. It?s not costing anyone a roster spot

The hockey writers.com has this article:

Alexandar Georgiev?s Potential Trade Return Impacted by Past Goalie Deals

BY JEB BIGGART JANUARY 23RD, 2020

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1. There is probably as good a chance that the team will continue to carry three goaltenders through the Feb. 24 trade deadline as there is that Alex Georgiev will be dealt.

 

And while it is sensible not to rush to judgment simply to avoid an unwieldy situation, let’s not kid ourselves, this might represent the height of interest in Georgiev, who has turned in some excellent performances but has not exactly established himself as an untouchable over the last six weeks.

 

If so, if general manager Jeff Gorton can stoke a bidding war for the 23-year-old pending restricted free agent with arbitration rights, if the Blueshirts could get a no-doubt top-nine winger with potential top-six upside, this would be the time to strike.

There is zero evidence that Lundqvist will ask to be moved. There is no indication that he would agree to waive his no-move clause if a Cup contender comes calling. There is no chance that management would approach him with that request absent legitimate interest from a third party.

 

Perhaps the dynamics could change, but that seems quite unlikely. Absent further notice, then, expect Lundqvist to be here through at least the end of the season, if not through the remainder of his contract that expires after next year.

 

And if the Rangers expect Lundqvist to be a functioning goaltender and partner for, presumably, Shesterkin, then the mushroom act where they open the closet door and water him every once in a while isn’t going to work. Lundqvist has played one game since Jan. 2.

 

The reluctance to part with Georgiev is understandable. But the Rangers have had a line of succession in mind for years and there has been nothing in Shesterkin’s first four months of North American pro hockey to suggest that the original plan should be scuttled. He is 24, he is lightning quick, technically superior, supremely confident and in command.

 

The Canadiens did not move Carey Price because Jaro Halak carried the team to the 2010 conference finals after taking out both Alex Ovechkin’s Caps and Sidney Crosby’s Penguins. Rather, the Habs stuck to their plan and the-then 25-year-old Halak was traded within a month of those two staggering upsets.

There is no reason for Gorton to be stampeded into making a choice before its time, that is true, but, again, this could well be the only time the Rangers have leverage in trade talks as it applies to Georgiev. The last thing they need is to be sitting at the draft table in Montreal and fielding offers of late second-rounders and/or thirds for No. 40.

https://nypost.com/2020/01/23/why-rangers-should-strike-now-on-alex-georgiev-trade/

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guess larry's been reading this thread, CK one as well.

Is he really their third best, tho? Maybe now that Kapanen, Engvall, Johnsson and Sandin are up, but what's that say?

 

If we didn't have our goalie pipeline and we traded from and area of strength, say K'Andre, for at worst a solid tandem goalie... Would I hate that? Dunno, really.

He’s ranked as their #3 in the article I posted. I dunno.

For comparison you’d have to trade K’andre/Lundkvist and a high pick for a backup goalie with a 60 game sample size.

I think it’s nuts. It’s not as if this is a trade that completely changes things for them in terms of competing for the cup. But maybe I’m wrong.

I'd take Robertson in a 1 for 1. I'm not even a full believer in him but that would be the only future they have that interests me.

 

I think a deal with the Leafs would have to be expanded.

 

Bracco has 3 goals in the AHL. 3. Fuck off.

Bracco has like 130pts in 130 AHL games this season and last season

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It?s not like is Georgiev is a 27-28 yr old journeyman goalie who?s bounced around the league. He?ll be 24 next month and already has 3 yrs experience in the NHL. He?s a starting caliber goalie . This year he and Lundqvist have been pretty much 50/50, Lundqvist has played 25 gms and Georgiev has been in 23 gms. I don?t get the backup goalie title everyone is throwing out there?I think it?s more from writers that don?t watch us. And i think it?s obvious Gorton doesn?t view Georgiev as a backup goalie. So we shouldn?t be getting a backup goalies trade value/type of return in a Georgiev trade.

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