What to do with Kaapo Kakko?

He's not been looking good for about 2 weeks. He looked fine today.

 

Kid's 18. Inconsistency is going to be the hallmark of his game.

 

What's the value of getting him in the AHL? Lesser competition? Weaker defenders? Just a pee-pee stroke for a while?

 

He's pacing 40 points; figure maybe he pots a few more once he figures out the NHL proper in the 2nd half of the season. Right on schedule.

yeah, and after next game where he doesn't look good you can be just as good an argument that he looked terrible and should be sent down. This isn't a game by game conversation. It's a long-term one.

yeah, and after next game where he doesn't look good you can be just as good an argument that he looked terrible and should be sent down. This isn't a game by game conversation. It's a long-term one.

 

I don't think anyone is arguing that, unless you've just read the first line of my post. I've asked twice in this thread what value there is in sending him down to the AHL and I've still got no answer. How does playing him against lesser competition help? How is this show any different than, say, Andrei Svechnikov last year?

I don't think anyone is arguing that, unless you've just read the first line of my post. I've asked twice in this thread what value there is in sending him down to the AHL and I've still got no answer. How does playing him against lesser competition help? How is this show any different than, say, Andrei Svechnikov last year?

 

Reminds me exactly of Svechnikov's season. I said before the season started that if he had that type of rookie season I would be pleased. Well, he's pacing 21 goals and 40 points, which was Svechnikov's season to a tee.

Kid is 18. Keep moving him around as he adjusts and gains experience. No way I would even consider sending him down unless he was in way over his head (clearly not the case).

I don't think anyone is arguing that, unless you've just read the first line of my post. I've asked twice in this thread what value there is in sending him down to the AHL and I've still got no answer. How does playing him against lesser competition help? How is this show any different than, say, Andrei Svechnikov last year?

There's 2-3 posts at the top of the thread that explain it.

There's 2-3 posts at the top of the thread that explain it.

 

Right, and how does playing him against lesser competition help? Gets him used to having more time? Gets him used to not being cheated toward?

 

It's not a good thing to acclimate someone to a level of comfort he isn't going to have in the big leagues. If you want to get the guy a skating coach, sure. Sending him down would be reinforcing the wrong things and sending the wrong message.

Right, and how does playing him against lesser competition help? Gets him used to having more time? Gets him used to not being cheated toward?

 

It's not a good thing to acclimate someone to a level of comfort he isn't going to have in the big leagues. If you want to get the guy a skating coach, sure. Sending him down would be reinforcing the wrong things and sending the wrong message.

 

Not only do I completely disagree that sending down a struggling 18 year old who's documented in being too hard on himself... If the bolded were true, no developing player would be sent to the AHL.

 

You seem to have painted yourself into a bit of a corner with that one. ;)

Right, and how does playing him against lesser competition help? Gets him used to having more time? Gets him used to not being cheated toward?

 

It's not a good thing to acclimate someone to a level of comfort he isn't going to have in the big leagues. If you want to get the guy a skating coach, sure. Sending him down would be reinforcing the wrong things and sending the wrong message.

 

There's value in an 18 year old spending time in a league where the emphasis is on player development; at the NHL level it's about wins and losses.

 

From what I've seen Kakko has a tendency to dangle and take too long to decide what to do with the puck. Could tweaks to his game be made at the NHL level? Sure. Is it easier to work on his game in the minors? You bet.

 

If the level of competition is too easy, great, maybe we get a Chytil bump when he comes back.

Not only do I completely disagree that sending down a struggling 18 year old who's documented in being too hard on himself... If the bolded were true, no developing player would be sent to the AHL.

 

You seem to have painted yourself into a bit of a corner with that one. ;)

 

If every player's issue was "I'm being defended like an NHLer and need to learn how to beat NHL defensemen", you'd be spot on. But it's not, so, there's that. Players don't make the NHL for a variety of reasons.

 

The reasons you want to send Kakko down aren't remediable by moving the difficulty slider down a notch. He doesn't learn to work with less space and beat NHL defenders who cheat to his side by working with more space and beating AHL defenders who cheat to Vinni Lettieri.

If every player's issue was "I'm being defended like an NHLer and need to learn how to beat NHL defensemen", you'd be spot on. But it's not, so, there's that. Players don't make the NHL for a variety of reasons.

 

The reasons you want to send Kakko down aren't remediable by moving the difficulty slider down a notch. He doesn't learn to work with less space and beat NHL defenders who cheat to his side by working with more space and beating AHL defenders who cheat to Vinni Lettieri.

Thousand percent disagree, your post isn't even making a lot of sense. if he needs to work on adjustments to a smaller ice surface, then knocking the speed down a tick will absolutely help him. You're not going to convince me, I'm not going to convince you.

Sending Kakko down sends the wrong message. You're essentially telling him he's not good enough. Well, he's pacing 21 goals and 40 points as a 18 y.o. rookie. How is that not good enough? I see this argument about how he should be sent down because of a supposed confidence problem. What does it do to his confidence if you send him down with that kind of production? I think people's expectations were a touch too high if they need more than that to consider his rookie season worthy of the NHL.

 

Rather than send him down, simply contuining to reassure him he is not out of place despite needing to work on things is the best thing for his confidence. And as I've mentioned numerous times, he has a special skillset with the man advantage that is better than any replacement they would use. His 5v5 will improve over time with opportunity.

might as well leave him here and let him learn with the big boys. not going anywhere this year anyway

What NHL defenders are ?cheating? his side? I don?t understand this term

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

What NHL defenders are ?cheating? his side? I don?t understand this term

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

Valliquette did a whole package on how the Rangers PP is ineffective with Kakko on the right because the PK is shadowing him and he can't get off a shot or make a move to the inside because the Rangers can't get him the puck in a good position.

 

Essentially, the exact opposite of some saying he's some kind of force on the man advantage.

 

All I'll say is, no player ever got worse by being allowed to develop in the minors. The whole narrative of sending an 18 year old down to work on some things sending the wrong message is completely false. The AHL is filled with 18-20 year olds working on their games.

Maybe he's a young padawan and he uses the force on the man- advantage

Valliquette did a whole package on how the Rangers PP is ineffective with Kakko on the right because the PK is shadowing him and he can't get off a shot or make a move to the inside because the Rangers can't get him the puck in a good position.

 

Essentially, the exact opposite of some saying he's some kind of force on the man advantage.

 

All I'll say is, no player ever got worse by being allowed to develop in the minors. The whole narrative of sending an 18 year old down to work on some things sending the wrong message is completely false. The AHL is filled with 18-20 year olds working on their games.

 

The AHL is filled with....13 players under the age of 20. A number of which aren't even in the AHL anymore (Boqvist, Dach, Farabee, Heinola - who went down, then back to Lukko).

 

There are plenty of 20 year olds, because that's when you can't play juniors anymore.

 

Kakko may not be at NHL pace just yet, but he's well beyond AHL pace. Sending him down to "work on his game"? What are you hoping he gets from that? Seeing his dangles and predictability work on lesser competition?

 

I don't get the point. He's not the first hyper-talented 18 year old to acclimate to the NHL and he won't be the last.

He's not even doing very badly so I don't see why he would be sent down. The parts of his game that need improvement would not even be tested very well in the AHL so I don't see how it would help much. He is a pretty dangerous and effective player on the nights when he is on and he can continue to learn and grow just fine here. He has helped us win several hockey games so this is right where he belongs.

The AHL is filled with....13 players under the age of 20. A number of which aren't even in the AHL anymore (Boqvist, Dach, Farabee, Heinola - who went down, then back to Lukko).

 

There are plenty of 20 year olds, because that's when you can't play juniors anymore.

 

Kakko may not be at NHL pace just yet, but he's well beyond AHL pace. Sending him down to "work on his game"? What are you hoping he gets from that? Seeing his dangles and predictability work on lesser competition?

 

I don't get the point. He's not the first hyper-talented 18 year old to acclimate to the NHL and he won't be the last.

Correct, you don't get the point.

Correct, you don't get the point.

 

ok boomer.

ok boomer.

Wow, got me there.

https://theathletic.com/1425721/2019/12/02/goldman-evaluating-the-trends-and-takeaways-from-the-rangers-performance-in-november/

 

Eight points in 13 games isn’t really an issue for the rookie in November, but the fact that he had the biggest negative change in GSVA this past month is — going from 0.29 to -0.30.

 

Kakko has been productive on the power play, but his even strength play is lacking. Just three of his eight points in November were scored at even strength (two at 5-on-5, one at 3-on-3), and below the surface, he ranks second to last in both Corsi and expected goals because of his play on both ends of the ice. To give his play more perspective, his -4.8 Goals Above Replacement ranks seventh to last in the league, and the most influential contributors to that are his even strength offense and defense. There’s no way to paint that in a way that isn’t concerning.

 

It’s up to the Rangers to get to the root of the problem to help Kakko develop and succeed.

 

According to research by Micah Blake McCurdy, teammates are the most influential on a player’s shot rates; in all but two of the 13 games Kakko’s played in this month, he’s been deployed on the third line with Lemieux and Brett Howden.

 

Interesting that Quinn's recently shuffled Kakko up with Panarin. Let's see if that makes a difference.

 

edit - Goldman goes on to discuss how Kakko and Howden have been deployed heavily together at ES and how that's not working. She also noted that Kakko had one of his best games to date being moved up in the lineup against NJ and hopes that continues.

https://theathletic.com/1425721/2019/12/02/goldman-evaluating-the-trends-and-takeaways-from-the-rangers-performance-in-november/

 

 

 

Interesting that Quinn's recently shuffled Kakko up with Panarin. Let's see if that makes a difference.

 

I know I'm very negative about Howden and I feel he's an offensive drag on every one of his linemates. That being said, if Kakko doesn't show some positive upticks in his even-strength play over the next couple of weeks with more highly skilled linemates, I'll be in Pete's category and think he should be sent to Hartford for some work.

I don't see his possession and scoring metrics being a result of just the players he's been with. That's half an excuse. He hasn't been good at zone entries of any type, be it dump or carry-ins, and has struggled to maintain possession once in the zone. He has clear potential, but it's obvious that he needs to be carried by someone else right now. Nothing about his statistics shocks me because it matches what you see on the ice. Chances just don't occur in favor of the Rangers when he's on the ice, the puck is more often than not going the other way and is at times staying there for long periods of time. I'm hoping that time with Panarin shows him a few things: how to properly enter the zone, when and how to engage for loose pucks, and how to properly backcheck. These are all things I think have been remiss in Kakko's game. They're not a cause for worry, but they're things I'd like to see more growth in than has been demonstrated.

I don't see his possession and scoring metrics being a result of just the players he's been with. That's half an excuse. He hasn't been good at zone entries of any type, be it dump or carry-ins, and has struggled to maintain possession once in the zone. He has clear potential, but it's obvious that he needs to be carried by someone else right now. Nothing about his statistics shocks me because it matches what you see on the ice. Chances just don't occur in favor of the Rangers when he's on the ice, the puck is more often than not going the other way and is at times staying there for long periods of time. I'm hoping that time with Panarin shows him a few things: how to properly enter the zone, when and how to engage for loose pucks, and how to properly backcheck. These are all things I think have been remiss in Kakko's game. They're not a cause for worry, but they're things I'd like to see more growth in than has been demonstrated.

 

Most influential doesn't mean the only influence. I think the argument is that it's not good, and it's compounded by the fact that he's been with Lemieux and Howden.

 

Regardless, yeah, he's a bit gunshy on loose pucks, boardplay, and backchecking. I'd like to see movement there.

I don't see his possession and scoring metrics being a result of just the players he's been with. That's half an excuse. He hasn't been good at zone entries of any type, be it dump or carry-ins, and has struggled to maintain possession once in the zone. He has clear potential, but it's obvious that he needs to be carried by someone else right now. Nothing about his statistics shocks me because it matches what you see on the ice. Chances just don't occur in favor of the Rangers when he's on the ice, the puck is more often than not going the other way and is at times staying there for long periods of time. I'm hoping that time with Panarin shows him a few things: how to properly enter the zone, when and how to engage for loose pucks, and how to properly backcheck. These are all things I think have been remiss in Kakko's game. They're not a cause for worry, but they're things I'd like to see more growth in than has been demonstrated.

All 3 players are basically rookies with Howden the "vet" at 86 games.

 

The number two overall pick should be helping the other two, we shouldn't be using them as an excuse for what's ailing Kakko (and what's ailing him.... To your point, is of his own doing).