Lias Andersson Leaves the Team; Requests Trade

It's 3 years post draft and he's done nothing to justify his draft position and pretty much not developed at all.

 

But...OK... we can shell Howden and talk about how bad he sucks, but not Andersson? I don't get it...

Because Howden is 4 years after his draft.

Because Howden is 4 years after his draft.

 

Why can't Howden and Andersson be compared?

 

A deflection off of Andersson's stick is an own-goal? Really? That's just bad luck.

 

For what it's worth Howden has been on for two more goals against than Andersson in both 5v5 and PK play. He's also only been on the ice for 5 for versus Andersson's 2 playing with non-scorers. Andersson has been the better of the two at faceoffs in the last 6 games at 63.6%. I don't think Lias has done much to warrant a bump up but Howden doesn't do much more than seeming somewhat more engaged. He just plays a better physical game.

In regards to goals against, have to be careful on the comparison. Howden is playing against better talent, and has had Kappo ok his wing.

Kappo is looking better offensively, but just might currently be one of the worst defensive forwards in the league

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I think we need to stop comparing Howden and Andersson. Andersson has missed coverage in his own end, gotten beat to the front of his own goal, or scored on his own goal in each of the last three games. I'm sorry, but Quinn isn't going to put him out there for a big face off because he's drawing at a 49% win rate. He's not reliable.

He was literally sending Howden out there at times to take the draw and then change. Something is wrong there. He doesn't win draws. Kreider is taking most of the face-offs for his line because Chytil is god awful at them and is drawing better than Howden. He was sending him out to take draws in place of Strome on Strome's line when Strome is drawing at 50% this year. Quinn is in a dream world when it comes to what Howden is as a player. It really seems unrealistic.

In regards to goals against, have to be careful on the comparison. Howden is playing against better talent, and has had Kappo ok his wing.

Kappo is looking better offensively, but just might currently be one of the worst defensive forwards in the league

 

 

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Howden was one of the worst defensive forwards in the league last year and isn't too much better this season.

We've seen a lot more of Howden via ice time than Andersson. He hasn't offered anything offensively despite being consistently put in a position to showcase that. He's a young kid and I hope he develops into a good player for the Rangers over time. Andersson, on the other hand, has consistently not had the same time of day.

Yes and there's a reason we've seen more of Howden, is my point.

Why can't Howden and Andersson be compared?

 

A deflection off of Andersson's stick is an own-goal? Really? That's just bad luck.

 

For what it's worth Howden has been on for two more goals against than Andersson in both 5v5 and PK play. He's also only been on the ice for 5 for versus Andersson's 2 playing with non-scorers. Andersson has been the better of the two at faceoffs in the last 6 games at 63.6%. I don't think Lias has done much to warrant a bump up but Howden doesn't do much more than seeming somewhat more engaged. He just plays a better physical game.

They can be compared, I just don't think it's useful anymore. Lias hasn't proven he's worth a bump in playing time. Rangers have played well, they've been scoring goals, and while Howden hasn't exactly been lighting the world on fire, Lias has been even less noticeable. Why would Quinn put the "less engaged" player on the ice for a big face off?

Every time Lias is mentioned someone throws in the disclaimer: he's playing with "non scorers." Guess who is also a non-scorer? Lias. He has one point. So while Howden isn't impressive, he's more reliable and more productive than Lias to this point. So why in the world would Lias go out randomly for a big faceoff? He hasn't earned that yet.

Not to say he won't eventually, but he hasn't.

They can be compared, I just don't think it's useful anymore. Lias hasn't proven he's worth a bump in playing time. Rangers have played well, they've been scoring goals, and while Howden hasn't exactly been lighting the world on fire, Lias has been even less noticeable. Why would Quinn put the "less engaged" player on the ice for a big face off?

 

Every time Lias is mentioned someone throws in the disclaimer: he's playing with "non scorers." Guess who is also a non-scorer? Lias. He has one point. So while Howden isn't impressive, he's more reliable and more productive than Lias to this point. So why in the world would Lias go out randomly for a big faceoff? He hasn't earned that yet.

 

Not to say he won't eventually, but he hasn't.

Because he's way better at winning face-offs? Usually when you have a big face-off you send out the guy that has the best chance to win it.

They can be compared, I just don't think it's useful anymore. Lias hasn't proven he's worth a bump in playing time. Rangers have played well, they've been scoring goals, and while Howden hasn't exactly been lighting the world on fire, Lias has been even less noticeable. Why would Quinn put the "less engaged" player on the ice for a big face off?

 

Every time Lias is mentioned someone throws in the disclaimer: he's playing with "non scorers." Guess who is also a non-scorer? Lias. He has one point. So while Howden isn't impressive, he's more reliable and more productive than Lias to this point. So why in the world would Lias go out randomly for a big faceoff? He hasn't earned that yet.

 

Not to say he won't eventually, but he hasn't.

I agree that he's a non-scorer but so is Howden who just happened to luck into 2 garbage goals in over 15 minutes per game. Given that they're both pretty much replaceable with one another there's no reason they can't alternate.

Yes and there's a reason we've seen more of Howden, is my point.

He likes waffles :deadhorse:

I agree that he's a non-scorer but so is Howden who just happened to luck into 2 garbage goals in over 15 minutes per game. Given that they're both pretty much replaceable with one another there's no reason they can't alternate.

Howden's goals were not "lucky." Lucky is Ryan Strome being hit in the shoulder with an errand shot and having it bounce in. Howden was in front of the net, worked to separate himself from the defender, and battled for a rebound for both goals. I can't say I can recall Lias ever being in front of the net, let alone battling for rebounds.

So while we're splitting hairs over two goals, I think it's important to note that you're purposely muddying the waters over what Howden has done to prop up Lias.

Howden's goals were not "lucky." Lucky is Ryan Strome being hit in the shoulder with an errand shot and having it bounce in. Howden was in front of the net, worked to separate himself from the defender, and battled for a rebound for both goals. I can't say I can recall Lias ever being in front of the net, let alone battling for rebounds.

 

So while we're splitting hairs over two goals, I think it's important to note that you're purposely muddying the waters over what Howden has done to prop up Lias.

You called Lias a non-scorer. It's not like Howden really is either. He swung at a puck in the crease. It's Andersson's fault Micheal Haley and Brendan Smith don't create rebounds?

You said Howden is more reliable? What exactly makes him so?

You called Lias a non-scorer. It's not like Howden really is either. He swung at a puck in the crease. It's Andersson's fault Micheal Haley and Brendan Smith don't create rebounds?

 

You said Howden is more reliable? What exactly makes him so?

In the most simplistic terms, he plays ten more minutes a game and gets scored on less. I could also say he's quicker and forechecks more effectively. I'm not really an advanced stat guy, but I looked them up a couple of days ago and his numbers are all better than Andersson's. Not by much, but they are.

To your bolded point: Brendan Smith is the most effective 4th liner on the team by a wide margin. He also has three more points than Lias. Using Smith as an excuse for Lias doesn't hold water.

One thing my dad always said, regardless of any and every thing else on the ice, you have to put the puck in the net if you want to play.

Hated hearing it as a kid, but it holds true with Andersson. Even with shitty line mates... 1 point or 2 points this season... unacceptable.

In the most simplistic terms, he plays ten more minutes a game and gets scored on less. I could also say he's quicker and forechecks more effectively. I'm not really an advanced stat guy, but I looked them up a couple of days ago and his numbers are all better than Andersson's. Not by much, but they are.

Fair. I don't think that makes him more reliable. That just makes him look more engaged.

Andersson leads Howden in CF%, xGF% and has a PDO that reflects he's been unluckier than Howden.

For as little as Andersson has done, Howden has done nearly as little with more time. I think it's fair to say Andersson hasn't been anything spectacular but Howden pretty much only has moxie on him.

Fair. I don't think that makes him more reliable. That just makes him look more engaged.

 

Andersson leads Howden in CF%, xGF% and has a PDO that reflects he's been unluckier than Howden.

 

For as little as Andersson has done, Howden has done nearly as little with more time. I think it's fair to say Andersson hasn't been anything spectacular but Howden pretty much only has moxie on him.

We're in agreement that both players need to improve. I just don't like "...but where are her emails" defense. Meaning, you can't argue for Anderson by showing me Howden stats. Anderson is the lowest scoring forward on the team. And second worst rating at -5. To no one's fault but his own, he doesn't take big face-offs or play big minutes until he earns it.

We're in agreement that both players need to improve. I just don't like "...but where are her emails" defense. Meaning, you can't argue for Anderson by showing me Howden stats. Anderson is the lowest scoring forward on the team. And second worst rating at -5. To no one's fault but his own, he doesn't take big face-offs or play big minutes until he earns it.

I mentioned stats for both of them. So you're really saying the only thing that really separates Howden and Andersson are two goals. Those don't really reflect on faceoffs which Andersson has been better at lately. I do think, though, that Andersson isn't playing up simply because he has yet to make a scoresheet impact. Quinn operates on a "statistical meritocracy" and though Howden has been unspectacular, especially of late, he has an assist and a goal in his last 10.

I mentioned stats for both of them. So you're really saying the only thing that really separates Howden and Andersson are two goals. Those don't really reflect on faceoffs which Andersson has been better at lately. I do think, though, that Andersson isn't playing up simply because he has yet to make a scoresheet impact. Quinn operates on a "statistical meritocracy" and though Howden has been unspectacular, especially of late, he has an assist and a goal in his last 10.

No. You're resorting to fallacies to keep the debate alive. I've already said what separates them. Check back through our conversation. It's the entire picture, 2 goals included. And Quinn wasn't quoted as saying "statistical meritocracy" so again, you're conflating facts to prop up Lias. He wouldn't need you to bend over backwards for him if he were actually playing well.

Does anyone get the feeling that if we move Andersson that all of a sudden he'll become a star with another team? I don't. I haven't seen anything that makes me think he's anything other than Oscar Lindstrom.

I was thinking Oscar Lindberg a year or two ago. Was told I had no idea what I was talking about and the two don't compare. Now? I'd rather have Lindberg, because Andersson looks like a bust and a half. When he was drafted I saw his skills as so down the middle and average. I never got the hype.

I'd have taken a different player, but that draft isn't producing very much, so it's not like they would have done much better taking someone else.

If any team wants him. I trade him. Holding onto such a player because he is home grown and cost controlled, doesn't make sense to me. I'd rather see Boo Nieves in the role Andersson is playing. At least you would know he is giving max effort and not being a fucking baby.

I totally jump on a Pajamas trade straight up.

I think they drafted Andersson hoping they’d get their future captain and shutdown center in 5-7 years.

There’s no salient point to be made on either him or Howden at this point.

Both still writing their stories. Early chapters for both.

No. You're resorting to fallacies to keep the debate alive. I've already said what separates them. Check back through our conversation. It's the entire picture, 2 goals included.

I got what you said and ultimately what it boiled down to me was Lias hasn't scored but Howden has. Howden just plays a more visually appealing game.

And Quinn wasn't quoted as saying "statistical meritocracy" so again, you're conflating facts to prop up Lias. He wouldn't need you to bend over backwards for him if he were actually playing well.

Did I say it was a direct quote? He says he operates off a meritocracy. It's pretty clear how that often works: recency bias. It's what got Fast on the top line after having a good game.

I'm not trying to prop up Lias so much as support the notion that Howden isn't much better just that he has "results." Aside from that, they're pretty comparable.

I got what you said and ultimately what it boiled down to me was Lias hasn't scored but Howden has. Howden just plays a more visually appealing game.

 

 

 

Did I say it was a direct quote? He says he operates off a meritocracy. It's pretty clear how that often works: recency bias. It's what got Fast on the top line after having a good game.

 

I'm not trying to prop up Lias so much as support the notion that Howden isn't much better just that he has "results." Aside from that, they're pretty comparable.

You're assuming you and Quinn are operating on the same statistical recency bias.

Seems like he rewards what he presumes to be effort and recent performance. Doesn't seem too crazy.

Seems like he rewards what he presumes to be effort and recent performance. Doesn't seem too crazy.

I got what you said and ultimately what it boiled down to me was Lias hasn't scored but Howden has. Howden just plays a more visually appealing game.

 

 

 

Did I say it was a direct quote? He says he operates off a meritocracy. It's pretty clear how that often works: recency bias. It's what got Fast on the top line after having a good game.

 

I'm not trying to prop up Lias so much as support the notion that Howden isn't much better just that he has "results." Aside from that, they're pretty comparable.

Yes because you used quotes, lol. You're being disingenuous.