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Thread: Democratic Candidates

  1. #421
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    I mean, he's already answered it. It was always a bad look (having his son sit on that board, regardless of what he was being paid). Becuase it was always going to have the appearance of impropriety despite his father's record on anti-corruption efforts.

    Politically, it was a misstep. But policy-wise, it served the foreign policy of the U.S. and the international community, all of whom supported firing the prosecutor. That may feel like a distinction without a difference, but the difference is there. Trump did this for personal political benefit. Biden did it because it was official U.S. policy.
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  2. #422
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    Not sure how you know why he did besides what he said. Nobody has ever investigated it. His son has no reason to ever be in the board of anything. Joe Bidens judgement to allow that and then serve as the pointman with Ukraine is disqualifying in itself. This has nothing to do with trump. Bidens problems are his alone while trumps are his alone.

    What is Bidens record of anti corruption too?

    You mean anti not getting a cut?

  3. #423
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    Not sure how you know why he did besides what he said. Nobody has ever investigated it. His son has no reason to ever be in the board of anything. Joe Bidens judgement to allow that and then serve as the pointman with Ukraine is disqualifying in itself. This has nothing to do with trump. Bidens problems are his alone while trumps are his alone.
    Investigated what? Burisma? Yes, they have. It's why there's absolutely no evidence of what Trump Republicans are suggesting/hinting at. They're tilting at windmills in the hopes it'll somehow also magically create an actual enemy.

    What is Bidens record of anti corruption too?

    You mean anti not getting a cut?
    I'm talking about his record in Ukraine — a country he largely helped reform.

    Also:

    Mr. Giuliani has claimed, without evidence, that Mr. Biden’s push to oust Mr. Shokin was an attempt to block scrutiny of his son’s actions. In fact, Mr. Biden was just one of many officials calling for Mr. Shokin to go. Good-government activists were protesting his actions in the streets, as were eurozone power players like Christine Lagarde, then the managing director of the International Monetary Fund, along with Ms. Nuland and Senate Republicans.

    “The position regarding getting rid of Shokin was not Vice President Biden’s position; it was the position of the U.S. government, as well as the European Union and international financial institutions,
    ” said Amos J. Hochstein, former coordinator for international energy affairs at the State Department and one of the few administration officials who directly confronted Mr. Biden at the time about his son.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/10/u...n-ukraine.html
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  4. #424
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    Investigated what? Burisma? Yes, they have. It's why there's absolutely no evidence of what Trump Republicans are suggesting/hinting at. They're tilting at windmills in the hopes it'll somehow also magically create an actual enemy.



    I'm talking about his record in Ukraine — a country he largely helped reform.

    Also:



    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/10/u...n-ukraine.html
    Ukraine investigated Burisma and the prosecutor doing so was fired at Bidens demand. That’s not a legit or finished investigation. Ukraine is known for being the most corrupt places on earth yet you trust their investigation?

  5. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    Ukraine investigated Burisma and the prosecutor doing so was fired at Bidens demand. That’s not a legit or finished investigation. Ukraine is known for being the most corrupt places on earth yet you trust their investigation?
    Dude. Read the text Phil posted.

    EU, US government, and a number of international financial institutions held the EXACT SAME POSITION as Biden. To say that the prosecutor was removed because of Biden when there are literally, what, 30 countries in the EU and god knows how much sway in the IMF is a deliberate factual perversion to fit the "What about Biden's kid" narrative that's supposed to "protect Trump" from being further investigated.
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    Quote Originally Posted by G1000 View Post
    Dude. Read the text Phil posted.

    EU, US government, and a number of international financial institutions held the EXACT SAME POSITION as Biden. To say that the prosecutor was removed because of Biden when there are literally, what, 30 countries in the EU and god knows how much sway in the IMF is a deliberate factual perversion to fit the "What about Biden's kid" narrative that's supposed to "protect Trump" from being further investigated.
    What was kid doing there in the first place? Other countries wanting him removed doesn’t absolve the fact that Biden has personal reasons to remove him as well. Plenty of things are generally agreed upon yet never fixed or stood up to. And are these the same consensus of countries who had Iraq with wmds?

    “It’s not a good look” but move on. Ok makes sense

  7. #427
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    I mean a little research is all it takes.

    Biden et al pushed to have Shokin removed because his investigations into corruption had stalled.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nyt...unter.amp.html

    And lets just say this...Even if Biden is dirty... We've already heard in this thread that every politician is corrupt, right? So why is Trump just happening to be pressuring Ukraine to investigate his most threatening opponent? There is one answer... His own political gain.

    This is Hilary part 2. Trump needs a villain in his WWE sideshow to deflect from his own crimes, and now Biden is it. Trump ran on "Lock her up", and as soon as he got into office, it was forgotten about. Because in reality there's nothing to lock her (or Biden) up for.
    Last edited by Pete; 12-06-2019 at 06:20 AM.

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    Who cares about trump? This is the dem candidate thread. We are talking about Biden. Trying to cloud the discussion to discuss trump misses the point of this thread. Both can be dirty. If you want to discuss trump than start a thread to do so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    Who cares about trump? This is the dem candidate thread. We are talking about Biden. Trying to cloud the discussion to discuss trump misses the point of this thread. Both can be dirty. If you want to discuss trump than start a thread to do so.
    Well we can't talk about the Biden situation that YOU brought up without touching on Trump.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Well we can't talk about the Biden situation that YOU brought up without touching on Trump.
    Why?

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    I can’t bring up the Biden situation in the dem candidate thread?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    I can’t bring up the Biden situation in the dem candidate thread?
    Welllll, no. Because there's no evidence he did anything wrong. And there is no investigation, and there's no sign that there would ever be one. Even the Repubs are cold to it. So there's nothing further to discuss.

    Some Republicans believe Trump’s impeachment trial or a separate Senate committee inquiry could lay the groundwork for investigating former Vice President Joe Biden and his son, who have both emerged as a fixation for Trump and his top allies as they look for a foothold in the impeachment battle.

    Trump escalated the effort on Thursday when he tweeted that the Bidens “must testify” — raising the specter that the president’s lawyers or GOP senators could try to drag them into the public impeachment trial.

    “What did Hunter Biden do for the money?” @SenJohnKennedy A very good question. He and Sleepy Joe must testify!” Trump tweeted.

    But a push to focus on the Bidens as part of an impeachment trial quickly received a cool reception from Republicans on Capitol Hill.

    “His lawyers, I presume, can ask for any witnesses they want. But I think we ought to keep focus on the articles of impeachment and not go down any rabbit trails,” said Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas) told The Hill.

    Asked about Trump floating that the Bidens should testify, Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) said he didn’t understand it as a "defense to the president.”

    “We’ll make that decision, not the president,” Graham added.
    So we can stop talking about that, and Trump.

  13. #433
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    Why?
    Because the Biden situation is tied directly to the Trump impeachment inquiry. For all intents and purposes, it's the "dirt" Trump paid for with taxpayer dollars.
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    Quote Originally Posted by G1000 View Post
    Because the Biden situation is tied directly to the Trump impeachment inquiry. For all intents and purposes, it's the "dirt" Trump paid for with taxpayer dollars.
    They're inextricably linked, for exactly this reason, but I did my best earlier not to reference Trump relative to Biden. Like coffee mixed with milk, I'm not sure you can ever truly separate them, but I suppose you could try for the sake of trying.
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    Funny stuff. You guys are unable to discuss Bidens actions when he was Vice President without invoking trump. So trump is guilty and getting impeached. So now the country needs to move forward and elect a president. Biden has full immunity because of why? No one has ever investigated it. That is why there is little evidence. Hunter Biden is an actual crack addict who was kicked out of the naval academy. He has no professional experience with energy. Yet a proven corrupt company in one of the most corrupt countries in the world put him on their board of governors while his dad was vp and the pointman in all things Ukraine. No interest on why they were paying him to a board member? Why didn’t joe excuse himself with dealing in Ukraine? You’re lack of curiosity is funny.

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    I mean a little research is all it takes.

    Biden et al pushed to have Shokin removed because his investigations into corruption had stalled.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nyt...unter.amp.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    Funny stuff. You guys are unable to discuss Bidens actions when he was Vice President without invoking trump. So trump is guilty and getting impeached. So now the country needs to move forward and elect a president. Biden has full immunity because of why? No one has ever investigated it. That is why there is little evidence. Hunter Biden is an actual crack addict who was kicked out of the naval academy. He has no professional experience with energy. Yet a proven corrupt company in one of the most corrupt countries in the world put him on their board of governors while his dad was vp and the pointman in all things Ukraine. No interest on why they were paying him to a board member? Why didn’t joe excuse himself with dealing in Ukraine? You’re lack of curiosity is funny.
    I don't fucking care one whit about Hunter Biden, nor what overtures a company in Ukraine may have made to indirectly court favor. He's not the candidate, he's not running for office, and those who are running for office aren't responsible for the actions of their children.

    It's a but this, then that, and also this, and that, and this, and when you connect the yarn and thumbtacks garbageburger with regard to Joe Biden.

    Engage with the myriad facts that have been posted in this thread.
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  18. #438
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    Funny stuff. You guys are unable to discuss Bidens actions when he was Vice President without invoking trump. So trump is guilty and getting impeached. So now the country needs to move forward and elect a president. Biden has full immunity because of why? No one has ever investigated it. That is why there is little evidence. Hunter Biden is an actual crack addict who was kicked out of the naval academy. He has no professional experience with energy. Yet a proven corrupt company in one of the most corrupt countries in the world put him on their board of governors while his dad was vp and the pointman in all things Ukraine. No interest on why they were paying him to a board member? Why didn’t joe excuse himself with dealing in Ukraine? You’re lack of curiosity is funny.
    I didn't say I'm unable to, I said it's difficult, specifically because the entire reason we're even having this conversation is because Trump held up taxpayer money reserved for an ally in a quid pro quo as a means to extort said ally into announcing a public investigation into his then (and still now) top political rival in order to damage Biden.

    The entire Hunter-Ukraine connection stinks, but I don't believe Biden is responsible for it. Hunter is the one at fault here. We have no reason to believe that Joe did anything wrong here. In fact, what he did — firing the prosecutor — made it more likely that Burisma would be investigated than not. Odd behavior for anyone looking to rip off a foreign nation in this way considering how likely it would be to go public.

    If Biden ends up the nominee, I'm sure this will be front-and-center the whole way, and that's fine on the merits of honesty. But that's not the reason it'll be front-and-center. Not to Trump, who will use it in the exact same manner he did the aid for Ukraine — to damage his political opponent for personal political gain.
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  19. #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    I didn't say I'm unable to, I said it's difficult, specifically because the entire reason we're even having this conversation is because Trump held up taxpayer money reserved for an ally in a quid pro quo as a means to extort said ally into announcing a public investigation into his then (and still now) top political rival in order to damage Biden.

    The entire Hunter-Ukraine connection stinks, but I don't believe Biden is responsible for it. Hunter is the one at fault here. We have no reason to believe that Joe did anything wrong here. In fact, what he did — firing the prosecutor — made it more likely that Burisma would be investigated than not. Odd behavior for anyone looking to rip off a foreign nation in this way considering how likely it would be to go public.

    If Biden ends up the nominee, I'm sure this will be front-and-center the whole way, and that's fine on the merits of honesty. But that's not the reason it'll be front-and-center. Not to Trump, who will use it in the exact same manner he did the aid for Ukraine — to damage his political opponent for personal political gain.
    No—This will be the emails again, and he'll ignite the base by tweeting that he'll lock up Joe...Then once re-elected he'll never tweet Biden's name again.

    The issue is, this is all done to damage is most serious competition (I guess he doesn't consider Warren or Bernie serious threats). It's basically marketing, a fictitious smear campaign that contaminates the Democratic pool.

  20. #440
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    Funny stuff. You guys are unable to discuss Bidens actions when he was Vice President without invoking trump. So trump is guilty and getting impeached. So now the country needs to move forward and elect a president. Biden has full immunity because of why? No one has ever investigated it. That is why there is little evidence. Hunter Biden is an actual crack addict who was kicked out of the naval academy. He has no professional experience with energy. Yet a proven corrupt company in one of the most corrupt countries in the world put him on their board of governors while his dad was vp and the pointman in all things Ukraine. No interest on why they were paying him to a board member? Why didn’t joe excuse himself with dealing in Ukraine? You’re lack of curiosity is funny.
    I don’t think anyone would change their mind, here. You won’t see people acknowledging anything, or coming close to changing their opinions. Most of these guys are extreme leftists
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