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Thread: The Democratic Primaries: Joe Biden is the Nominee

  1. #361
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    Warren is “Karen”
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    Klobuchar is "Karen."

    Warren is — as Mike Murphy (GOP) likes to say — "the fightin' granny from Oklahoma."
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    What's up with Pete and the lack of minority support? Is it a strong anti-gay demographic? IDK

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    Klobuchar is "Karen."

    Warren is — as Mike Murphy (GOP) likes to say — "the fightin' granny from Oklahoma."

    I read a ton of stuff from both sides. I spend 2.5 hours commuting each day, and I read stuff on both sides of the aisle. Warren is a sweetheart or darling to a very select group of Americans... and Pete & Phil, obviously, lol. Warren isn’t pulling any moderates or republicans who want to wash their hands if trump. Middle Americans, blue collar Americans, moderates and frustrated republicans all won’t pull the lever for socialism. You can quote polls, but look at how Hillary polled up until the day before Election Day in ‘16.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Niko View Post
    I read a ton of stuff from both sides. I spend 2.5 hours commuting each day, and I read stuff on both sides of the aisle. Warren is a sweetheart or darling to a very select group of Americans... and Pete & Phil, obviously, lol. Warren isnít pulling any moderates or republicans who want to wash their hands if trump. Middle Americans, blue collar Americans, moderates and frustrated republicans all wonít pull the lever for socialism. You can quote polls, but look at how Hillary polled up until the day before Election Day in Ď16.
    Because you keep using scary words like socialism to try and make it scary doesn't make it scary.

    The bolded group of people repeatedly vote against their own self interests based on misinformation so this doesn't shock me.

    You're right about polls, though. They don't measure the outdated and useless electoral college, which is what Trump won. He was beaten handily in the general.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Niko View Post
    I read a ton of stuff from both sides. I spend 2.5 hours commuting each day, and I read stuff on both sides of the aisle. Warren is a sweetheart or darling to a very select group of Americans... and Pete & Phil, obviously, lol. Warren isn’t pulling any moderates or republicans who want to wash their hands if trump. Middle Americans, blue collar Americans, moderates and frustrated republicans all won’t pull the lever for socialism. You can quote polls, but look at how Hillary polled up until the day before Election Day in ‘16.
    Well put.

    She has no appeal to potential “hoppers”
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    Again, I have zero interest in any of the candidates. This will be another terrible election with no one to want to vote for. I keep looking at each candidate and researching them and I can’t get behind anyone. The closest I can come is Bloomturd or Biden, but even that’s not moving the needle for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Niko View Post
    I read a ton of stuff from both sides. I spend 2.5 hours commuting each day, and I read stuff on both sides of the aisle. Warren is a sweetheart or darling to a very select group of Americans... and Pete & Phil, obviously, lol. Warren isn’t pulling any moderates or republicans who want to wash their hands if trump. Middle Americans, blue collar Americans, moderates and frustrated republicans all won’t pull the lever for socialism. You can quote polls, but look at how Hillary polled up until the day before Election Day in ‘16.


    Clarity that this post is not directed at you, Nik.

    Part of that bolded bit is that polls don't account for foreign interference in elections. There's no variable in the formula for "Fancy Bear". Part of that is also a fundamental misunderstanding of polling and projections. Hillary had a 4 in 5 or so chance of winning the election. The wheel spun poorly...with some help.

    I also don't get this refrain about socialism. Aside from corporate libertarians, who just hate taxes and live tethered to a complete political pipe dream, what's the problem?

    Why is the idea that American tax dollars should go to services that help Americans so reviled? Is it because Americans can't parse out the differences between socialism and communism, or because Americans are so petty, greedy, and selfish that the prospect of tax dollars going to helping both them and their neighbor, and not doing the whole Team America World Police thing on whichever country is unlucky enough to win this administration's episode of "Which Middle Eastern Country Should We Shitbomb This Decade?" is just a non-starter?
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  9. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by G1000 View Post
    [/b]

    Clarity that this post is not directed at you, Nik.

    Part of that bolded bit is that polls don't account for foreign interference in elections. There's no variable in the formula for "Fancy Bear". Part of that is also a fundamental misunderstanding of polling and projections. Hillary had a 4 in 5 or so chance of winning the election. The wheel spun poorly...with some help.

    I also don't get this refrain about socialism. Aside from corporate libertarians, who just hate taxes and live tethered to a complete political pipe dream, what's the problem?

    Why is the idea that American tax dollars should go to services that help Americans so reviled? Is it because Americans can't parse out the differences between socialism and communism, or because Americans are so petty, greedy, and selfish that the prospect of tax dollars going to helping both them and their neighbor, and not doing the whole Team America World Police thing on whichever country is unlucky enough to win this administration's episode of "Which Middle Eastern Country Should We Shitbomb This Decade?" is just a non-starter?
    I think the biggest issue is that “you” (not directed specifically) don’t comprehend how EXTREME everything you mention... is. This is the “This is why Trump won” post. It’s so extreme, ignorant, short sighted and unrealistic. This won’t get the voters the democrats need to win the election.

    As much as I would get labeled a republican in here, I’m not. I’d vote for the best candidate. I’d vote Democrat. But when I hear/see that - “holy shit, Fuck No! OMG, I might wear a MAGA hat”
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    I think the biggest issue is that “you” (not directed specifically) don’t comprehend how EXTREME everything you mention... is. This is the “This is why Trump won” post. It’s so extreme, ignorant, short sighted and unrealistic. This won’t get the voters the democrats need to win the election.

    As much as I would get labeled a republican in here, I’m not. I’d vote for the best candidate. I’d vote Democrat. But when I hear/see that - “holy shit, Fuck No! OMG, I might wear a MAGA hat”
    Sorry, I don't see it at all. The idea that we could be spending our tax budget bettering ourselves being labeled "extreme, ignorant, shortsighted and unrealistic" is fundamentally wrong. Our tax revenue - even with the insane corporate dodges we see - is more than the GDP of all but three countries. One of those three countries is the USA. We certainly have the money.

    I think that reaction is dismissing the premise for the sake of not having the argument, or it's basically admitting that I'm right about at least one of my assertions around how Americans perceive the term socialism. I really hope it's not the whole "we're really that dumb and greedy" thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4EverRangerFrank View Post
    What's up with Pete and the lack of minority support? Is it a strong anti-gay demographic? IDK
    538 has a great piece on this question. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...-black-voters/
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    Quote Originally Posted by G1000 View Post
    Assuming that you're using CAD here, that's...

    $3.18 USD/Gallon for gas
    $265 for cell phone
    $132 for your internet/cable
    $4.54 for around 4/5 gallon of milk

    Your cell phone is wack, and your gas is higher than normal but within the realm of "yeah, we've paid that before". The rest is....par for the course, really.
    Canadian fuel is quite high. The average cost as is this week is 1.30 a liter. That comes out to just over 5 dollars per gallon


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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    538 has a great piece on this question. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...-black-voters/
    Thx Phil. IMO Biden has a huge advantage from having been elected with Obama and the legacy effect that now accrues to him. Bluntly stated, if a black man chose Biden to be VP then heís worth a serious look on his own in this election. Thatís a very superficial way of assessing his candidacy with black voters but it may explain at least some of the support heís getting.

    Itís too soon to publicly go after Kamala with a VP offer but Iím sure her departure from the race is being calculated as a boost to someone like Pete, or Warren (who was very complimentary of KH during her appearance on The Last Word) or maybe as a compliment to Bloombergís bid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4EverRangerFrank View Post
    Thx Phil. IMO Biden has a huge advantage from having been elected with Obama and the legacy effect that now accrues to him. Bluntly stated, if a black man chose Biden to be VP then he’s worth a serious look on his own in this election. That’s a very superficial way of assessing his candidacy with black voters but it may explain at least some of the support he’s getting.

    It’s too soon to publicly go after Kamala with a VP offer but I’m sure her departure from the race is being calculated as a boost to someone like Pete, or Warren (who was very complimentary of KH during her appearance on The Last Word) or maybe as a compliment to Bloomberg’s bid.
    Absolutely. Someone like Pete, in particular, would probably jump at the opportunity to make stronger inroads with minority voters via Harris' name on his ticket.
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    Anyone like Tulsi Gabbard? I've come to think she would be the smart play for Democrats. As a person who tends to vote Republican; I'm very interested in Tulsi and Yang in the Dem race and could swing my vote. Outside of the box thinking and dont seem to politically driven but more so idea and moral driven.

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    As a person who tends to vote Republican, you're probably very interested in Gabbard because she's a Republican. Or, more appropriately, a conservative media darling. When the point of the election is to unseat the incumbent, I find it hard to believe there's value in running a candidate who the opposition favors.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    As a person who tends to vote Republican, you're probably very interested in Gabbard because she's a Republican. Or, more appropriately, a conservative media darling. When the point of the election is to unseat the incumbent, I find it hard to believe there's value in running a candidate who the opposition favors.
    Wouldn't that be the exact reason? She'd pull R votes away from DT.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Wouldn't that be the exact reason? She'd pull R votes away from DT.
    While simultaneously disenfranchising the entire base that wants to fire him.

    If you want to pull R votes, nominate someone who can get them without heavily sacrificing from your core voter base — Biden.

    Have you seen Gabbard's numbers with women? Let alone minorities?

    --



    So what do we know about Gabbard’s base? For one thing, it’s overwhelmingly male —according to The Economist’s polling with YouGov, her support among men is in the mid-single digits, while her support among women is practically nonexistent.
    Gabbard’s supporters are also likely to fall outside of traditional Democratic circles. Her supporters, for instance, are more likely to have backed President Trump in 2016, hold conservative views or identify as Republican compared to voters backing the other candidates. An early November poll from The Economist/YouGov found that 24 percent of Democratic primary voters who voted for Trump in 2016 backed Gabbard.
    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...gabbards-base/
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    While simultaneously disenfranchising the entire base that wants to fire him.

    If you want to pull R votes, nominate someone who can get them without heavily sacrificing from your core voter base ó Biden.

    Have you seen Gabbard's numbers with women? Let alone minorities?

    --





    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...gabbards-base/
    Oh I think she's a poor candidate, regardless.

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    Right. You're not wrong about her ability to draw R votes. The problem is she'd be getting them for all the wrong reasons — likely at the expense of the core of the Democratic base.

    If she switched parties and ran as a Republican tomorrow, I think she'd see a wave of support from the right.
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