2019 Training Camp Thread

Based on what?

Howden completely drowned in his first NHL season. Whatever you think of Namestnikov he’s a perfectly serviceable NHL player. Howden, based on available evidence, is at best borderline.

 

I think we should remember that a lot of why some players play over others, is due to what they do in practice. Howden may not have played lights out for the 2nd half of the season, but he may have done all that was asked of him away from the ice and in practice.

 

I see tons of two way potential with Howden. I think Namestnikov is a completely different player with a different attitude and style .

If only Namestnikov was fedotenko. Very underrated player

You said Names is a superior center. He's not. which is why he hasn't been given the second line center tryout.

 

Namestnikov is a natural center and has played a ton of center in his professional career. I don't profess to know why the Rangers seem more comfortable playing him on the wing, but I'd wager it has as much to do with roster makeup and organizational politics as anything else.

If you don't like fancy stats (and no it's not just XG, his underlying stats are all dreadful), the eye test should provide overwhelming evidence that Namestnikov is a far more complete hockey player than Howden at this point. If you don't see that then we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

In any case, the decision has been made. Nothing would please me more than you being able to smear this in my face in three months time. Like I said, I like him as a prospect. I just feel like he could definitely do with some time in the AHL to develop his game. And I wonder why that argument is applicable to Chytil and Kravtsov, but not Howden. If you think Namestnikov isn't capable of being a 3 or 4 c on this team then that's a fair enough answer to the question I guess, but I'm not sure how you'd come to that conclusion.

Namestnikov has a ton of skill, it’s just the not utilized in his role on the team. I wish he’d shoot more, too.

 

Josh man, you said it! I wish he'd shoot A LOT more!

im no where nearly as down on Howden. he was serviceable last year and hit the wall.

Namestnikov is a natural center and has played a ton of center in his professional career. I don't profess to know why the Rangers seem more comfortable playing him on the wing, but I'd wager it has as much to do with roster makeup and organizational politics as anything else.

If you don't like fancy stats (and no it's not just XG, his underlying stats are all dreadful), the eye test should provide overwhelming evidence that Namestnikov is a far more complete hockey player than Howden at this point. If you don't see that then we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

In any case, the decision has been made. Nothing would please me more than you being able to smear this in my face in three months time. Like I said, I like him as a prospect. I just feel like he could definitely do with some time in the AHL to develop his game. And I wonder why that argument is applicable to Chytil and Kravtsov, but not Howden. If you think Namestnikov isn't capable of being a 3 or 4 c on this team then that's a fair enough answer to the question I guess, but I'm not sure how you'd come to that conclusion.

I'm very familiar with with what Names history as a player is.

 

The rest of the post amounts to "if you don't see it how I see it, you're wrong".

 

But I seem to see it the way Quinn and management do, this time, so I'm comfortable with that.

 

Also, you keep ignoring that Chytil and Kravtsov are wings and Howden is a center. He was one of the 5 best centers in camp, which is why he's on the team.

I'm very familiar with with what Names history as a player is.

 

The rest of the post amounts to "if you don't see it how I see it, you're wrong".

 

But I seem to see it the way Quinn and management do, this time, so I'm comfortable with that.

 

Also, you keep ignoring that Chytil and Kravtsov are wings and Howden is a center. He was one of the 5 best centers in camp, which is why he's on the team.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying your opinion differs to mine, and I'm trying to explain why. Underlying stats and the eye test (for me) suggests Howden has pretty severe issues as an NHL player and that Namestnikov is a better player at this point. Feel free to disagree. It seems pretty clear that you do. That's fine.

I'm also not ignoring anything, we're discussing Namestnikov now because playing him as a center is just one example of how you could give Howden the time in the AHL that he - in my opinion - needs.

 

Probably time to knock this on the head.

where are the ballsy prediction threads???

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying your opinion differs to mine, and I'm trying to explain why. Underlying stats and the eye test (for me) suggests Howden has pretty severe issues as an NHL player and that Namestnikov is a better player at this point. Feel free to disagree. It seems pretty clear that you do. That's fine.

I'm also not ignoring anything, we're discussing Namestnikov now because playing him as a center is just one example of how you could give Howden the time in the AHL that he - in my opinion - needs.

 

Probably time to knock this on the head.

Quinn doesn't see Names as a center. Point is moot.

 

Maybe Howden is the hardest working player on the team (not saying this is the case, just making a point) and he's here to signal to guys like Chytil that if they want to stay here, extra effort is required?

where are the ballsy prediction threads???

 

 

Howden to score 80 points!

 

Maybe Howden is the hardest working player on the team (not saying this is the case, just making a point) and he's here to signal to guys like Chytil that if they want to stay here, extra effort is required?

 

I think that is a very good point. The boys at Blueshirts Breakaway made a similar argument in their last pod.

I don't see what all the arguing is about. They straight up said there was no room in the top 9 for Chytil and Krav to get consistent minutes so they sent them down to play big minutes in all situations. Additionally, Chytil will play center in Hartford. They clearly don't care if Howden plays on the 4th line.

It's taken a turn from Chytil/Krav to me making the argument that Howden needs time in the AHL as much as the others.

But you may well be right in that they feel Howdens talents aren't wasted playing 10 mins a night on the 4th line.

It's taken a turn from Chytil/Krav to me making the argument that Howden needs time in the AHL as much as the others.

But you may well be right in that they feel Howdens talents aren't wasted playing 10 mins a night on the 4th line.

 

Personally I think that's how they feel about Howden. Low ceiling...always will be 3rd or 4th line. Extra playing time won't generate a whole lot of difference in what he'll bring. Chytl and Krav are both projected to be top 6 forwards. They need more ice for their talents to develop properly.

Chytil making the team as an 18 year old and not making it two years later as an incumbent has got to be considered a red flag in terms of his development. Put it this way, if, the day he made the team two years ago, you were to have been told that two years later he would not make it, you would have been very disappointed.

Chytil making the team as an 18 year old and not making it two years later as an incumbent has got to be considered a red flag in terms of his development. Put it this way, if, the day he made the team two years ago, you were to have been told that two years later he would not make it, you would have been very disappointed.

 

Disagree. He shouldn't have made it two years ago, using his demotion as proof. Last year the Rangers had no players and therefore he and Andersson ended up on the roster by default. If the team wasn't improved he would have made the roster -- just like the previous years. But now that they actually have NHL players, it's okay for a 20 year old to play in the AHL. Winnipeg Jets should be an example of how you develop players. Patience is key. Not everyone is Kakko.

Chytil making the team as an 18 year old and not making it two years later as an incumbent has got to be considered a red flag in terms of his development. Put it this way, if, the day he made the team two years ago, you were to have been told that two years later he would not make it, you would have been very disappointed.

 

You're trying to make something out of nothing here. There are no red flags. He "made the team" as an 18 year because he impressed in camp. He played 2 games (7:40 and 4:59) before being sent down. That's not really making the team. Last year he essentially made the team by default. He was 11th among forwards in ice time. Again they straight up said they want him to get consistent big minutes. There's no need to be disappointed. ICYMI:

 

 

https://twitter.com/NYRangers/status/1178795405347147777

Disagree. He shouldn't have made it two years ago, using his demotion as proof. Last year the Rangers had no players and therefore he and Andersson ended up on the roster by default. If the team wasn't improved he would have made the roster -- just like the previous years. But now that they actually have NHL players, it's okay for a 20 year old to play in the AHL. Winnipeg Jets should be an example of how you develop players. Patience is key. Not everyone is Kakko.

 

idk...

He got beat out by McKegg, Lemieux, Haley and Andersson, not Kakko and Panarin

 

Chris Kreider / Mika Zibanejad A / Pavel Buchnevich

Jimmy Vesey Panarin / Kevin Hayes McKegg / Mats Zuccarello A Kakko

Ryan Spooner Strome / Filip Chytil Andersson / Jesper Fast

Vladislav Namestnikov / Brett Howden / Vinni Lettieri Lemieux

 

Cody McLeod Haley

idk...

He got beat out by McKegg, Lemieux, Haley and Andersson, not Kakko and Panarin

 

Chris Kreider / Mika Zibanejad A / Pavel Buchnevich

Jimmy Vesey Panarin / Kevin Hayes McKegg / Mats Zuccarello A Kakko

Ryan Spooner Strome / Filip Chytil Andersson / Jesper Fast

Vladislav Namestnikov / Brett Howden / Vinni Lettieri Lemieux

 

Cody McLeod Haley

 

None of this is true unless you want Chytil playing 10 minutes a night, which they have publicly stated they don't.

None of this is true unless you want Chytil playing 10 minutes a night, which they have publicly stated they don't.

 

correct. As I've mentioned a million times already McKegg and Haley and everyone on the 4th line have nothing to do with Chytil.

correct. As I've mentioned a million times already McKegg and Haley and everyone on the 4th line have nothing to do with Chytil.

 

Everyone on the 2018 4th line, plus others, leapfrogged him on the depth chart.

None of the roster decisions, this season or last season, were "by default".

As shown, the team didnt improve (they did upgrade 2 of their players that left).

 

This is a red flag, for Chytil and how the Rangers are developing players.

Everyone on the 2018 4th line, plus others, leapfrogged him on the depth chart.

None of the roster decisions, this season or last season, were "by default".

As shown, the team didnt improve (they did upgrade 2 of their players that left).

 

This is a red flag, for Chytil and how the Rangers are developing players.

 

This is exhausting. It's not worth defending anymore, whatever. If you wanna be alarmist, go ahead.

 

Chytil is 20 years old. He had a poor showing in camp. I'm not about to be concerned.

I was just showing the reason bolded didnt make sense.

I'd say this is a bigger "issue" than when Andersson got sent down last season, But I think it's a bigger issue in how the Rangers continually fail to develop their prospects more than it is a Chytil issue.

I was just showing the reason bolded didnt make sense.

I'd say this is a bigger "issue" than when Andersson got sent down last season, But I think it's a bigger issue in how the Rangers continually fail to develop their prospects more than it is a Chytil issue.

 

Last year Andersson was a bust. This year people are upset Howden is slotted higher than him. I'm just not going to be concerned about Chytil yet. If he's not back by February, then I'll start raising the red flags.

I hope this is the change that jd is bringing to the organization. Years past chytil made the team because of the poor depth and the rangers didn’t have the big picture as it’s focus. Every move this team makes should be about development of these young players. Should have been that way the last two years but better late than never.

 

Is it a red flag though? I can see it both ways. He certainly hasn’t gotten better in any real meaningful way but he’s 20 and it’s certainly not a lost cause. I do think his ceiling might have been overrated to begin with. I view him fully developed as a voracek best case and worst case anisomov type.