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Tony DeAngelo's Holdout


ThirtyONE

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His "attitude" is also over blown by my estimation. Avery was an asshole, who is a pretty shitty human being, this is nothing like that. It's just energy that need to be directed correctly.

 

I guess that's polite way to say he's not an asshole, he's more of a bone head, in controlling his emotion.

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I'm just not sure how he and his agent didn't see this coming. They're overplaying their hand. He can be as pissed off as he wants to be but he should redirect that into showing up in camp on time and outplaying some others and maybe for the first time in his NHL career stay out of the doghouse for an entire season. The money will come as early as next season if he actually plays his cards right or if it's all about the money go overseas.
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His "attitude" is also over blown by my estimation. Avery was an asshole, who is a pretty shitty human being, this is nothing like that. It's just energy that need to be directed correctly.

 

I guess that's polite way to say he's not an asshole, he's more of a bone head, in controlling his emotion.

 

Overblown by who? The fans? Clearly there is something because he has the talent.

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By the fans, yes. People act like he has "off ice issues" like he's Theo Fleury or half the NFL.

 

He's just a hot head, who says dumb shit to people of authority.

 

I agree with this. The Rangers benefit by Tony being in the lineup. Tony benefits himself by being in the lineup. His talent is unquestioned. He needs to figure out that he needs more experience to get paid the way he wants. Sign a deal for $1 mil, put this behind him, and get on the ice. But the bonehead that he is, he can't seem to figure it out.

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ADA signed an ELC with a bunch of bonuses too.

Adam fox currently holds a contract that pays him $925k a year. It also has $850k in bonuses for each season making his cap hit $1.775m a year if he hits those bonuses. It would seem reasonable to me that DeAngelo has at least earned the same type of contract

 

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The odds of Fox achieving those bonuses for them to even count are pretty low. ADA can't get bonuses. Doesn't make sense to compare an ELC to a second contract.

 

What are the terms of the bonuses? Usually a second contract is worth more than an elc which would be ada’s point. Not sure why it’s on ada to take the league minimum basically because the rangers spent all their money. He’s well within his right to hold out for more. It could become unwise if it drags on but if he settles in the next week or two this will all mean nothing.

 

Fox had zero leverage too yet he was given a bonus rich elc.

 

I’m sure everyone here would gladly accept from their boss that the new kid gets as much as $1.775m having yet to play a game but you need to prove yourself to get a penny more than a elc. Besides the company is broke because they overpaid basically every other guy on the team. So now we as a company have decided that it is on you to make up for our generosity to your teammates.

 

Clearly nobody would take issue with this at their work. Being underpaid and feeling like youre getting the shaft is very much human. Talking about these guys like they are robots is unrealistic. The league is littered with guys who should have no leverage according to the CBa yet they are holding out for millions and they are getting it. Hard to blame a guy who watches the gms undermine their leverage daily and not expect to get a little something. I’m sorry but saying we’ve spent all the money is not going to fly. And next year he’s not looking at a big pay day from the rangers regardless. The money situation is worse next summer. So the pay off for him next summer if he’s earns it now, is probably another hold out until he’s traded. Which makes it even less damaging holding out now. He’s probably gone next summer regardless, onlyway he stays isif he has a bad year and in that case he’s not getting paid again.

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His "attitude" is also over blown by my estimation. Avery was an asshole, who is a pretty shitty human being, this is nothing like that. It's just energy that need to be directed correctly.

 

I guess that's polite way to say he's not an asshole, he's more of a bone head, in controlling his emotion.

 

Overblown? By who? He's been traded or benched every season since he was drafted.

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What are the terms of the bonuses? Usually a second contract is worth more than an elc which would be ada?s point. Not sure why it?s on ada to take the league minimum basically because the rangers spent all their money. He?s well within his right to hold out for more. It could become unwise if it drags on but if he settles in the next week or two this will all mean nothing.

 

Fox had zero leverage too yet he was given a bonus rich elc.

 

I?m sure everyone here would gladly accept from their boss that the new kid gets as much as $1.775m having yet to play a game but you need to prove yourself to get a penny more than a elc. Besides the company is broke because they overpaid basically every other guy on the team. So now we as a company have decided that it is on you to make up for our generosity to your teammates.

 

Clearly nobody would take issue with this at their work. Being underpaid and feeling like youre getting the shaft is very much human. Talking about these guys like they are robots is unrealistic. The league is littered with guys who should have no leverage according to the CBa yet they are holding out for millions and they are getting it. Hard to blame a guy who watches the gms undermine their leverage daily and not expect to get a little something. I?m sorry but saying we?ve spent all the money is not going to fly. And next year he?s not looking at a big pay day from the rangers regardless. The money situation is worse next summer. So the pay off for him next summer if he?s earns it now, is probably another hold out until he?s traded. Which makes it even less damaging holding out now. He?s probably gone next summer regardless, onlyway he stays isif he has a bad year and in that case he?s not getting paid again.

Totally agree. He also had to watch Neil fuckin Pionk get 3 million a year after the trade.

 

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Neil Pionk has nothing to do with anything.
Yes he does. He's another comparible, young defenseman who Ranger fans know what he brings to the table. Another reason why what FF wrote ^ there was dead on. If you think it has nothing to do with anything then ignore my post and move on.

 

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Yes he does. He's another comparible, young defenseman who Ranger fans know what he brings to the table. Another reason why what FF wrote ^ there was dead on. If you think it has nothing to do with anything then ignore my post and move on.

 

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Pionk was arbitration eligible, so not really a comparable.

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What are the terms of the bonuses? Usually a second contract is worth more than an elc which would be ada’s point. Not sure why it’s on ada to take the league minimum basically because the rangers spent all their money. He’s well within his right to hold out for more. It could become unwise if it drags on but if he settles in the next week or two this will all mean nothing.

 

Fox had zero leverage too yet he was given a bonus rich elc.

 

I’m sure everyone here would gladly accept from their boss that the new kid gets as much as $1.775m having yet to play a game but you need to prove yourself to get a penny more than a elc. Besides the company is broke because they overpaid basically every other guy on the team. So now we as a company have decided that it is on you to make up for our generosity to your teammates.

 

Clearly nobody would take issue with this at their work. Being underpaid and feeling like youre getting the shaft is very much human. Talking about these guys like they are robots is unrealistic. The league is littered with guys who should have no leverage according to the CBa yet they are holding out for millions and they are getting it. Hard to blame a guy who watches the gms undermine their leverage daily and not expect to get a little something. I’m sorry but saying we’ve spent all the money is not going to fly. And next year he’s not looking at a big pay day from the rangers regardless. The money situation is worse next summer. So the pay off for him next summer if he’s earns it now, is probably another hold out until he’s traded. Which makes it even less damaging holding out now. He’s probably gone next summer regardless, onlyway he stays isif he has a bad year and in that case he’s not getting paid again.

 

Straight from the CBA:

 

Defensemen

(i) Ice time (aggregate and/or per Game). Player must be among top four (4) defensemen on the Club (minimum 42 Regular Season Games played by Player and comparison group). (Note: an Entry Level SPC may contain bonuses for both aggregate and per Game ice time; however, the maximum aggregate amount the Player may receive on account of the ice time category is $212,500.)

(ii) Goals: 10 Goal Minimum

(iii) Assists: 25 Assist Minimum

(iv) Points: 40 Point Minimum

(v) Points Per Game: .49 Points Per Game Minimum (minimum 42 Regular Season Games played)

(vi) Plus-Minus Rating: Among top three (3) defensemen on the Club (minimum 42 Regular Season Games played by Player and comparison group).

(vii) Blocked Shots: Among top two (2) defensemen on the Club (minimum 42 Regular Season Games played by Player and comparison group).

(viii) End-of-Season NHL All-Rookie Team

(ix) NHL All-Star Game (selected to play or plays)

(x) NHL All-Star Game MVP

 

Fox's bonuses are based on achieving some of those accomplishments though we don't know the exact nature of his bonus structure. Those are just all of the standard ELC bonuses for a defenseman, the bonuses for a forward are similar. Why is Fox entitled to the ability to receive bonuses? Because it's standard practice. Look at every other top prospect ELC. Most receive $925k, the maximum in ELC salary, plus bonuses that can't total more than $850k. You also can't be paid more than $212,500 per accomplishment so it's not often you see players getting the full $850k if at all.

 

DeAngelo also had performance bonuses in his contract. Based on his statistics he never met any of them. That's too bad.

 

The team also isn't broke. They're currently listed as carrying 14 forwards. It's doubtful they go into the season like that. They probably end up with another $700-750k which would give them around $1.9M in cap space. They could offer DeAngelo more. They could do it now if they wanted to because of the summer cap bonus. They haven't because they don't want to because they feel $925k properly represents DeAngelo's value.

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Straight from the CBA:

 

Defensemen

(i) Ice time (aggregate and/or per Game). Player must be among top four (4) defensemen on the Club (minimum 42 Regular Season Games played by Player and comparison group). (Note: an Entry Level SPC may contain bonuses for both aggregate and per Game ice time; however, the maximum aggregate amount the Player may receive on account of the ice time category is $212,500.)

(ii) Goals: 10 Goal Minimum

(iii) Assists: 25 Assist Minimum

(iv) Points: 40 Point Minimum

(v) Points Per Game: .49 Points Per Game Minimum (minimum 42 Regular Season Games played)

(vi) Plus-Minus Rating: Among top three (3) defensemen on the Club (minimum 42 Regular Season Games played by Player and comparison group).

(vii) Blocked Shots: Among top two (2) defensemen on the Club (minimum 42 Regular Season Games played by Player and comparison group).

(viii) End-of-Season NHL All-Rookie Team

(ix) NHL All-Star Game (selected to play or plays)

(x) NHL All-Star Game MVP

 

Fox's bonuses are based on achieving some of those accomplishments though we don't know the exact nature of his bonus structure. Those are just all of the standard ELC bonuses for a defenseman, the bonuses for a forward are similar. Why is Fox entitled to the ability to receive bonuses? Because it's standard practice. Look at every other top prospect ELC. Most receive $925k, the maximum in ELC salary, plus bonuses that can't total more than $850k. You also can't be paid more than $212,500 per accomplishment so it's not often you see players getting the full $850k if at all.

 

DeAngelo also had performance bonuses in his contract. Based on his statistics he never met any of them. That's too bad.

 

The team also isn't broke. They're currently listed as carrying 14 forwards. It's doubtful they go into the season like that. They probably end up with another $700-750k which would give them around $1.9M in cap space. They could offer DeAngelo more. They could do it now if they wanted to because of the summer cap bonus. They haven't because they don't want to because they feel $925k properly represents DeAngelo's value.

 

Not broke? What am I reading here in post after post? Not saying you said it but post after post says that the rangers don’t have the cap space to give him a proper bridge deal so he should just suck it up because he has no leverage. Forget getting into the weeds of this with cba talk. I mean did DeAngelo have as many bonus clauses in his elc? I don’t think so and he was a first round pick, Fox was not.

 

Speaking of leverage. How does Adam fox have so much? He forced a trade to his demanded destination. Then was able to pry as good an elc you can get from the team he just stated he had to play for. He’s not a first round pick. Why would another player with “no leverage” think they are worth more. Because they are not blind to what goes on around them. End of story. They are not us, the fans. Fans take the angle at what’s the best for the team. The player has himself first and foremost to think about. The rangers have long made it a practice to be loose with their purse strings. Leverage or not DeAngelo feels like he is worth more than a rookie contract without bonuses. Any reasonable person would agree with that.

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What are the terms of the bonuses? Usually a second contract is worth more than an elc which would be ada’s point.
His qualifying offer is his the AAV of his last contract (minus bonuses) +5%. So his 2nd contract will be more than his ELC.

 

Not sure why it’s on ada to take the league minimum basically because the rangers spent all their money. He’s well within his right to hold out for more. It could become unwise if it drags on but if he settles in the next week or two this will all mean nothing.
This sounds like an attempt to further the narrative that the Rangers Paid Panarin too much. The league minimum is $650k, so he would not be playing for the league minimum. He is within his right, but again, the CBA (that was collectively bargained by the union he's a member of) says he has no leverage. If he's got an issue with his position, he should take it up with the NHLPA. The Rangers are within his rights to let him sit there and rot. They just signed 2 RHD who are likely making ADA a third pair guy. Fact is, he needs the Rangers more than the Rangers need him.

 

Fox had zero leverage too yet he was given a bonus rich elc.

 

I’m sure everyone here would gladly accept from their boss that the new kid gets as much as $1.775m having yet to play a game but you need to prove yourself to get a penny more than a elc. Besides the company is broke because they overpaid basically every other guy on the team. So now we as a company have decided that it is on you to make up for our generosity to your teammates.

Trying to equate sports to real life really never works. It's apples to screwdrivers. But that said...If you're doing a job for 3 years and getting a 5% raise, and the company hires someone to do the same job 3 years after you started, chances are they are making more than you are to do that same job. The market inflates more than 5% per year.

 

Clearly nobody would take issue with this at their work. Being underpaid and feeling like youre getting the shaft is very much human. Talking about these guys like they are robots is unrealistic.
100% agree. And when that happens, you know what you do? Get a new job. You don't stay home from your job until they give you a raise.

 

The league is littered with guys who should have no leverage according to the CBa yet they are holding out for millions and they are getting it. Hard to blame a guy who watches the gms undermine their leverage daily and not expect to get a little something.
I can't believe anyone, or ADA, would classify him as a same case as Marner, Laine, Point, etc.

 

I’m sorry but saying we’ve spent all the money is not going to fly.
It actually can. And it likely will.

 

And next year he’s not looking at a big pay day from the rangers regardless. The money situation is worse next summer. So the pay off for him next summer if he’s earns it now, is probably another hold out until he’s traded. Which makes it even less damaging holding out now. He’s probably gone next summer regardless, onlyway he stays isif he has a bad year and in that case he’s not getting paid again.
Again, he should take it up with the CBA, collectively bargained by his union, not the Rangers. The Rangers gave him a qualifying offer and that's all they are obligated to do.

 

Holding out only makes him look bad. Kevin LeBanc accomplished way more on a better team and just signed for $1 million on a "show me deal"...If he can do it, so can ADA.

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The only other players on elcs that have as much bonus potential is kakko, Kravtsov, and Anderson. Just so happens they are all top 10 picks. Adam Fox was not a first round pick at all.

 

What is also interesting. The rangers have only three top prospects that don’t have bonus clauses. Howden, Hajek, and Rykov. Hmmm how come? Even third and fourth round picks have bonus clauses as long as it was the rangers who signed their elc. Howden a first and Hajek a second round pick got nothing from Tampa? You wonder why they are good? The rangers hand out bonus clauses to every draft pick

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His qualifying offer is his the AAV of his last contract (minus bonuses) +5%. So his 2nd contract will be more than his ELC.

 

This sounds like an attempt to further the narrative that the Rangers Paid Panarin too much. The league minimum is $650k, so he would not be playing for the league minimum. He is within his right, but again, the CBA (that was collectively bargained by the union he's a member of) says he has no leverage. If he's got an issue with his position, he should take it up with the NHLPA. The Rangers are within his rights to let him sit there and rot. They just signed 2 RHD who are likely making ADA a third pair guy. Fact is, he needs the Rangers more than the Rangers need him.

 

Trying to equate sports to real life really never works. It's apples to screwdrivers. But that said...If you're doing a job for 3 years and getting a 5% raise, and the company hires someone to do the same job 3 years after you started, chances are they are making more than you are to do that same job. The market inflates more than 5% per year.

 

100% agree. And when that happens, you know what you do? Get a new job. You don't stay home from your job until they give you a raise.

 

I can't believe anyone, or ADA, would classify him as a same case as Marner, Laine, Point, etc.

 

It actually can. And it likely will.

 

Again, he should take it up with the CBA, collectively bargained by his union, not the Rangers. The Rangers gave him a qualifying offer and that's all they are obligated to do.

 

Holding out only makes him look bad. Kevin LeBanc accomplished way more on a better team and just signed for $1 million on a "show me deal"...If he can do it, so can ADA.

 

Actually you are trying to bring panarin into every conversation. This has nothing to do with him other that he like trouba, Staal, hank, Namestnikov, strome, skeij, etc are all overpaid. You bring him into the equation and then blame me for talking about him. Nothing I wrote or for that matter thought when I wrote my post referred to panarin.

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Not broke? What am I reading here in post after post? Not saying you said it but post after post says that the rangers don’t have the cap space to give him a proper bridge deal so he should just suck it up because he has no leverage. Forget getting into the weeds of this with cba talk. I mean did DeAngelo have as many bonus clauses in his elc? I don’t think so and he was a first round pick, Fox was not.

 

Speaking of leverage. How does Adam fox have so much? He forced a trade to his demanded destination. Then was able to pry as good an elc you can get from the team he just stated he had to play for. He’s not a first round pick. Why would another player with “no leverage” think they are worth more. Because they are not blind to what goes on around them. End of story. They are not us, the fans. Fans take the angle at what’s the best for the team. The player has himself first and foremost to think about. The rangers have long made it a practice to be loose with their purse strings. Leverage or not DeAngelo feels like he is worth more than a rookie contract without bonuses. Any reasonable person would agree with that.

There's really no information on how much the Rangers' offer to ADA is, or what he wants. But he'll likely won't sign for his QO and the Rangers did this exact thing with JT Miller before giving him $2.75 (for a 20 goal season). ADA isn't going to get that (nor should he) but stop acting like he's going to make the league minimum.

 

Also, I think you really need to research the contracts before posting. And you really can't say "forget the CBA" when discussing contracts and leverage.

 

Fox signed for the same base salary as ADA. There are slight differences in the performance bonuses and signing bonuses so that's on ADA's agent, and Tampa.

 

Not sure why you're trying to pit Fox vs ADA. One has nothing to do with the other.

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Actually you are trying to bring panarin into every conversation. This has nothing to do with him other that he like trouba, Staal, hank, Namestnikov, strome, skeij, etc are all overpaid. You bring him into the equation and then blame me for talking about him. Nothing I wrote or for that matter thought when I wrote my post referred to panarin.

 

OK great. So what about the rest of the post?

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I’m not disparaging fox at all. I’m just taking the view of DeAngelo and trying to view it in his shoes. I know how awful. I totally understand people’s thought that he’s hurting himself. However him holding out to get more than peanuts is not an example of the problems that come with him. He is more than is $900k defenseman in this league. He’s more than most of what the rangers put out there at defense. I’m sure the rangrers aren’t taking a player looking out for himself as personal or as him being a negative. Same goes with DeAngelo towards the rangers. It’s the business. He will either get his raise or cave. For fans to negatively bash a player taking responsibility for his life is ridiculous. The money you are talking about here isn’t life changing. He will have to work after hockey if his career ended after this year.

 

The guy views himself as being worth more than a qualifying offer or Brendan lemieux. He’s not wrong. He has no leverage so he’s in a tough spot. The rangers could pay him an extra 500-750k and the situation ends. He could say fuck it, it’s just almost double what I make and play a show me year. Problem is the rangers are in worse shape next year in trying to pay him then. It’s a tough situation all around and he’s the guy left without a chair cap wise. The rangers hand out extra money like candy. It’s hard to find an underpaid ranger. Tony DeAngelo is about to become that rare thing. And the fans reaction is to shut the fuck up and play. And this why nobody wants him. It’s ridiculous. It’s a business and he’s got every right to fight for himself as any other player.

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