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jsm7302

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My Fast jersey would become useless then.

 

I don't see why we'd get rid of him though. He works as a 4th liner, works very hard, can kill penalties, and has a history of stepping up in the playoffs. I don't see why we'd want to get rid of him

 

This. I don't get the hate for him. He is a great two way player. Defensively, he is the teams best defensive forward. The guy can be used in many situations, and he pots a couple of goals. I have no problem with him, and hope they re-sign him next year. He doesn't cost that much either. I don't get what more people want from him.

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If we bury Smith, we can still make 7 D out of what we have

 

Trouba

Skjei

Fox

Staal

DeAngelo

Hajek

Lindgren

Rykov

 

I could see us carring Smith as a 7th still if we want those bottom 2-3 to get some time in the minors, but the cap savings from burying his contract might be necessary so I don't know if we could keep him

 

Unless ADA is the 7th defenseman, I wouldn't want any of the kids up as a 7th d-man, rather see them get the playing time in Hartford.

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We don't have the space to be thinking about any UFA, however cheap. Let the kids play on defense.

 

That is not accurate.

 

If any these players are signed at the veteran minimum which is $700K per year, there is no difference between playing/giving a roster spot to/calling up a Vinnie Lettieri or Ryan Lingdren(it's actually cheaper against the cap in his case) and almost anyone listed. Having said that I agree with you in that we should let the youth develop, and grow together at the NHL level provided they are far along enough in their development to warrant it.

 

Injuries are going to happen as the season goes along, and having a Justin Williams or Drew Stafford filling out the bottom six at the league minimum is not the worst idea in the world.

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This. I don't get the hate for him. He is a great two way player. Defensively, he is the teams best defensive forward. The guy can be used in many situations, and he pots a couple of goals. I have no problem with him, and hope they re-sign him next year. He doesn't cost that much either. I don't get what more people want from him.

 

his teammates gave him the 'Players Player' award and he's worn the A for us. I don't think there's a reason to get rid of him.

 

Sure, players like him can be replaceable, but why lose him when you have something that works. It's not like he's gonna be commanding some big ticket in free agency that would force us to have to get rid of him.

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his teammates gave him the 'Players Player' award and he's worn the A for us. I don't think there's a reason to get rid of him.

 

Sure, players like him can be replaceable, but why lose him when you have something that works. It's not like he's gonna be commanding some big ticket in free agency that would force us to have to get rid of him.

 

I don't think anyone is saying "get rid of him" some of the rhetoric aside.

 

What I think people are saying is that when his contract expires next season, there is always some team in Free Agency that over values bottom 6 players like this. Think Brandon Prust's $10 million/4 year contract that he signed with Montreal before the 2012-13 season, because they were looking for "more toughness". If someone offers Fast a contract like that, you have to move on. You could certainly make the "player's player" and "heart & soul" argument to give him that extra million and/or 1-2 years, but the reality is that it is poor cap management when you can replace his production and defensive value from within or externally for $700-900K.

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I don't think anyone is saying "get rid of him" some of the rhetoric aside.

 

What I think people are saying is that when his contract expires next season, there is always some team in Free Agency that over values bottom 6 players like this. Think Brandon Prust's $10 million/4 year contract that he signed with Montreal before the 2012-13 season, because they were looking for "more toughness". If someone offers Fast a contract like that, you have to move on. You could certainly make the "player's player" and "heart & soul" argument to give him that extra million and/or 1-2 years, but the reality is that it is poor cap management when you can replace his production and defensive value from within or externally for $700-900K.

 

well in this thread he's been called a fringe NHL player and there were hopes that he goes elsewhere. the first of which is certainly not true and the 2nd one a pretty baseless opinion in my view. You're certainly explaining in more detail why he could be let go.

 

he'll be 28 when he hits UFA, so not exactly passed the prime. Will we be devastated if he's moved now, at the deadline or moves on in UFA? No. But I think he's a good piece in place to have and if it's already working, why not keep him? If we can re-sign him for 2 years at close to the same salary he's getting (and according to capgeek, we have a projected $16,627,701 in caproom if the cap remains the same for 2020-21) I don't see a reason to let him go.

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My Fast jersey would become useless then.

 

I don't see why we'd get rid of him though. He works as a 4th liner, works very hard, can kill penalties, and has a history of stepping up in the playoffs. I don't see why we'd want to get rid of him

 

And he's not getting big bucks elsewhere, so...

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Staal was pretty solid last year on defense. He can still play and can play big minutes. His play hasn't warranted him becoming a 7th defensemen.

 

all true, but in terms of the long term health of this orgnization, I wonder if it just makes more sense to give the bulk of the playing time to younger players, if they are going to be up here

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all true, but in terms of the long term health of this orgnization, I wonder if it just makes more sense to give the bulk of the playing time to younger players, if they are going to be up here

 

Guys like Lindgren and Rykov need to be swapped in for each other.

 

No reason for Staal to be a 7th. He'll get some nights off.

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Some of the experts on this board may not appreciate Fast, but the rest of the league no doubt does. He will get a nice contract if we don't resign him. He actually does quite nicely offensively when placed on a scoring line from time to time. I'd sign him even if it takes sacrifices elsewhere.
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Guys like Lindgren and Rykov need to be swapped in for each other.

 

No reason for Staal to be a 7th. He'll get some nights off.

 

Unless something unexpected happens in camp I’d look at something like

 

Skjei-Trouba

Hajek/Rykov-Fox

Staal-DeAngelo

Hajek/Rykov

 

Absolutely no harm in rotating Hajek and Rykov as the 7th d, at least until their performance dictate otherwise. 40ish games for those two would be just fine.

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Unless something unexpected happens in camp I’d look at something like

 

Skjei-Trouba

Hajek/Rykov-Fox

Staal-DeAngelo

Hajek/Rykov

 

Absolutely no harm in rotating Hajek and Rykov as the 7th d, at least until their performance dictate otherwise. 40ish games for those two would be just fine.

 

Lindgren could be in that mix too.

 

So many Left D in the organization right now that are relatively close

Hajek

Rykov

Lindgren

Reunanen

 

Then Miller and now Matthew Robertson

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Lindgren could be in that mix too.

 

So many Left D in the organization right now that are relatively close

Hajek

Rykov

Lindgren

Reunanen

 

Then Miller and now Matthew Robertson

 

overall the depth on the back end is strong. the guys already mentioned, as well as lundkvist and Nico Gross, I don't see how we don't end up with an entirely prospect driven, cost controlled back end that turns out to be really good

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overall the depth on the back end is strong. the guys already mentioned, as well as lundkvist and Nico Gross, I don't see how we don't end up with an entirely prospect driven, cost controlled back end that turns out to be really good

 

It reminds me of 10 years ago when had the last strong crop of defensemen coming up over a 3-4 year period.

 

Tyutin

Staal

Girardi

Del Zotto

Sauer

McDonough

Stralman

 

Not to mention other notables that didn't quite pan out like:

 

Thomas Pock

Bobby Sanguetti

Matt Gilroy

Dylan McIlrath

 

Even though none of the first group arguably went on to being perennial all star defenseman, the Rangers defense was for a long time, a major strength of this team and majorly cost controlled. Maybe they held on to Staal & Girardi too long, and probably should have extended Stralman, but nobody can really argue about having such a strong core of defenseman. If our current crop of defense prospects has that same or better level of success, the Rangers defense should be in good shape for the next 10+ years, despite the work in progress it is now.

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It reminds me of 10 years ago when had the last strong crop of defensemen coming up over a 3-4 year period.

 

Tyutin

Staal

Girardi

Del Zotto

Sauer

McDonough

Stralman

 

Not to mention other notables that didn't quite pan out like:

 

Thomas Pock

Bobby Sanguetti

Matt Gilroy

Dylan McIlrath

 

Even though none of the first group arguably went on to being perennial all star defenseman, the Rangers defense was for a long time, a major strength of this team and majorly cost controlled. Maybe they held on to Staal & Girardi too long, and probably should have extended Stralman, but nobody can really argue about having such a strong core of defenseman. If our current crop of defense prospects has that same or better level of success, the Rangers defense should be in good shape for the next 10+ years, despite the work in progress it is now.

Your timelines are way off. Staal was on the team for 3 seasons before Mac arrived. Tyutin was like 4 years before Staal. Stralman was acquired as a 25 y.o. free agent.

 

They've never had a defensive pipeline like this, not even close.

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Your timelines are way off. Staal was on the team for 3 seasons before Mac arrived. Tyutin was like 4 years before Staal. Stralman was acquired as a 25 y.o. free agent.

 

They've never had a defensive pipeline like this, not even close.

 

Way to nitpick. Tyutin debuted in 2003-4 for 25 games before the locked out lost season, before taking a full time role in 2005-6. McDonaugh debuted in 2010-11with Girardi, Staal, & Del Zotto already playing prominent roles. Fine it was a 4-5 year window(or 6-7 year window if you really want to measure Tyutin's first game to Stralman's) instead of a 3-4 year window. You get the Blueshirts Brotherhood fact checker award for August.

 

Don't know how you can argue though that this was not a defensive pipeline though, in that they were all drafted or signed as undeveloped free agents over a reasonably short window.

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Way to nitpick. Tyutin debuted in 2003-4 for 25 games before the locked out lost season, before taking a full time role in 2005-6. McDonaugh debuted in 2010-11with Girardi, Staal, & Del Zotto already playing prominent roles. Fine it was a 4-5 year window(or 6-7 year window if you really want to measure Tyutin's first game to Stralman's) instead of a 3-4 year window. You get the Blueshirts Brotherhood fact checker award for August.

 

Don't know how you can argue though that this was not a defensive pipeline though, in that they were all drafted or signed as undeveloped free agents over a reasonably short window.

I mean you can say at one point they had 6-7 guys in their system who were, presumably, good. But you mentioned Tyutin, drafted in 2001 and Stralman acquired in 2011. Tyutin left in 2008. You're referencing a decades' worth of players with a couple who were never even really in the pipeline (Mac, Stralman).

 

If you would've just said that they had a good group around 2010, then fine. But it's not close at all to the pipeline BBBE was talking about.

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I mean you can say at one point they had 6-7 guys in their system who were, presumably, good. But you mentioned Tyutin, drafted in 2001 and Stralman acquired in 2011. Tyutin left in 2008. You're referencing a decades' worth of players with a couple who were never even really in the pipeline (Mac, Stralman).

 

If you would've just said that they had a good group around 2010, then fine. But it's not close at all to the pipeline BBBE was talking about.

 

This must be the middle of August of we are debating minutia like this. Sticking with your thought process, if McDonaugh was never in the pipeline then I guess Lingdren, Rykov, & Hajek are not either since none of them were drafted by the Rangers either.

 

Rather than spending energy debating what is and is not a "pipeline" which is really doesn't have any sort qualified definition; let me just reset my original statement by dropping Tyutin from the conversation and say that over a 3-5 window the Rangers did a very good job of developing a solid if not flashy core of defensemen. I am even more optimistic about this group when you add Miller, Fox, Lunqvist, D' Angelo, Keane, & Robertson to the group BBBE referenced above.

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It reminds me of 10 years ago when had the last strong crop of defensemen coming up over a 3-4 year period.

 

Tyutin

Staal

Girardi

Del Zotto

Sauer

McDonough

Stralman

 

Not to mention other notables that didn't quite pan out like:

 

Thomas Pock

Bobby Sanguetti

Matt Gilroy

Dylan McIlrath

 

Even though none of the first group arguably went on to being perennial all star defenseman, the Rangers defense was for a long time, a major strength of this team and majorly cost controlled. Maybe they held on to Staal & Girardi too long, and probably should have extended Stralman, but nobody can really argue about having such a strong core of defenseman. If our current crop of defense prospects has that same or better level of success, the Rangers defense should be in good shape for the next 10+ years, despite the work in progress it is now.

You forgot Baranka, Erixon, Potter, Kondratyev, Rachunek, & Heikkenen! Defense depth set for the next 10 seasons!

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