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Thread: Rangers Interested in D Ben Hutton

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by G1000 View Post
    Zone entry metrics; breakups, possessions allowed. Fancystats are more than Corsi.
    Lol. I mean what are they for Hutton

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    And yet here we are on a message board where I don't think anyone even knows what this guy looks like and they're judging him based on shit like shot share.
    What does what he look like have to do with how he plays?

    I know you are being facetious, but what is wrong with the community debating whether adding an NHL defensemen to the roster can help the team, using objective metrics during a time of the year when there is 0% new and relevant Rangers news to discuss. Some of your posts come off like you just like to argue for arguments sake.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RangersIn7 View Post
    Traditional stats and the eye test have worked for 50+ years of modern era, post-expansion hockey. They still do the job well if your scouts and talent evaluators (I mean pro level guys, not for amateurs) do their jobs well.

    Analytics don’t often paint an entirely new picture. They just fill in the existing one.
    This is interesting, because my gut was that you're completely wrong, but I've not really seen a reason to believe you are. I'm willing to bet that the hit rate on UFAs, draft picks, etc, has been significantly (statistically, not WHOA LOOK AT THE DIFFERENCE) better over the last 10 years than it has been in the rest of the history of the modern NHL.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyInTheMiddle View Post
    What does what he look like have to do with how he plays?

    I know you are being facetious, but what is wrong with the community debating whether adding an NHL defensemen to the roster can help the team, using objective metrics during a time of the year when there is 0% new and relevant Rangers news to discuss. Some of your posts come off like you just like to argue for arguments sake.
    OK, so just skip over them then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by G1000 View Post
    This is interesting, because my gut was that you're completely wrong, but I've not really seen a reason to believe you are. I'm willing to bet that the hit rate on UFAs, draft picks, etc, has been significantly (statistically, not WHOA LOOK AT THE DIFFERENCE) better over the last 10 years than it has been in the rest of the history of the modern NHL.
    Of course they have. Analytics help. We all know this. That's not the issue. The issue is that not many people here can honestly say they knew who this guy was without Googling him, and if they did, they certainly have only seen him play in snippets. Yet the commentary is "Why? He's terrible, look at the analytics". That's just as short sighted and closed minded as ignoring the fancy stuff.

    But I don't want keep going and derail the thread with another analytics debated. It's just annoying that people claim they don't only look at but it's pretty evident that they do. I'll leave it at that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Of course they have. Analytics help. We all know this. That's not the issue. The issue is that not many people here can honestly say they knew who this guy was without Googling him, and if they did, they certainly have only seen him play in snippets. Yet the commentary is "Why? He's terrible, look at the analytics". That's just as short sighted and closed minded as ignoring the fancy stuff.

    But I don't want keep going and derail the thread with another analytics debated. It's just annoying that people claim they don't only look at but it's pretty evident that they do. I'll leave it at that.
    Here's what I know about Ben Hutton:

    He was a 3rd pairing defender on the Canucks.
    He had a reasonably good season for a third pairing defender last year, and it's a hair surprising the Canucks walked from him.
    He has an extremely punchable face.
    His offensive fancystats suck, but he still put up 20 points.
    He's got pretty solid defensive numbers.

    He's not a star by any stretch, but there are probably worse players to take a flyer on at the asking price. A decidedly average defender. Nothing wrong with that, probably not worth signing over letting any of Hajek, Rykov, Fox, etc get that time.
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    Ben Hutton's cap hit last year was 2.8M
    Not sure why the Rangers are interested when they are so close to the cap max.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJWantsTheCup View Post
    Ben Hutton's cap hit last year was 2.8M
    Not sure why the Rangers are interested when they are so close to the cap max.
    we're getting pretty late in the summer to the point where guys who don't have contracts aren't going to be guaranteed raises over their previous salary.

    A 1 year deal at under $1mil is entirely reasonable to get a guy like him at this point in the offseason
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    I'm wondering how we have the cap space to sign anyone though, with two RFAs still remaining

    Capfriendly has us with $1 mil left in cap space. That doesn't account for buring half of Beleksy's cap hit (another 950k freed up) and it has McKegg on our roster (so that's another 750k) but their number also doesn't factor in Kravstov (subtract 925k in cap) and that leaves us with $1.775 mil left and thats assuming Rykov, Lindgren and Shesterkin all start the year in hartford

    unless we're still ridding ourselves of another contract like Namestnikov, I don't see how we are in a position to sign anyone, even if they are on the cheap
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    And yet here we are on a message board where I don't think anyone even knows what this guy looks like and they're judging him based on shit like shot share.

    I don't even know who this guy is so I don't really care, but the commentary is infuriating. no one on this board can actually say they watched this guy play extensively enough to judge if he's good or not good.
    Completely agree with you on this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlairBettsBlocksEverything View Post
    I'm wondering how we have the cap space to sign anyone though, with two RFAs still remaining

    Capfriendly has us with $1 mil left in cap space. That doesn't account for buring half of Beleksy's cap hit (another 950k freed up) and it has McKegg on our roster (so that's another 750k) but their number also doesn't factor in Kravstov (subtract 925k in cap) and that leaves us with $1.775 mil left and thats assuming Rykov, Lindgren and Shesterkin all start the year in hartford

    unless we're still ridding ourselves of another contract like Namestnikov, I don't see how we are in a position to sign anyone, even if they are on the cheap
    I'm starting to think that it's just a running inside joke between McKenzie, Friedman, and other rumor salesmen that you add the Rangers to any list of teams interested in any free agent, no matter the lack logic or disposable dollars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlairBettsBlocksEverything View Post
    I'm wondering how we have the cap space to sign anyone though, with two RFAs still remaining

    Capfriendly has us with $1 mil left in cap space. That doesn't account for buring half of Beleksy's cap hit (another 950k freed up) and it has McKegg on our roster (so that's another 750k) but their number also doesn't factor in Kravstov (subtract 925k in cap) and that leaves us with $1.775 mil left and thats assuming Rykov, Lindgren and Shesterkin all start the year in hartford

    unless we're still ridding ourselves of another contract like Namestnikov, I don't see how we are in a position to sign anyone, even if they are on the cheap
    DeAngelo and Lemieux were qualified. Rangers don't have to do anything with them. The lineup, as is, can take the ice tomorrow.

    That said, they have 4 NHL dmen, assuming Smith is in the minors, and including DeAngelo (who hasn't played a full NHL season). I think they absolutely need to bring in a 7th dman with some experience.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    They're not meant to paint an entirely new picture.
    They're meant to be an additional set of input evaluators can use to make informed decisions, in conjunction with every other bit of information available on a player.
    Making decisions solely based on analytics is a folly. "Not believing" in analytics is archaic.
    Iím well aware of that. Which is why I said it.
    Problem is that many others think itís something new that allows you to ignore whatís been around for decades. Also they tend to miss the fact that without traditional statistics the new analytics based stats couldnít exist mathematically since the majority of them are calculated using numbers and data from the traditional statistical pool.

    That was my point really.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    DeAngelo and Lemieux were qualified. Rangers don't have to do anything with them. The lineup, as is, can take the ice tomorrow.

    That said, they have 4 NHL dmen, assuming Smith is in the minors, and including DeAngelo (who hasn't played a full NHL season). I think they absolutely need to bring in a 7th dman with some experience.
    Which allowed the Rangers to keep their rights. The QOs weren't signed. Neither is actually under contract right now.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    Which allowed the Rangers to keep their rights. The QOs weren't signed. Neither is actually under contract right now.


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    Oh gottcha. Thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    DeAngelo and Lemieux were qualified. Rangers don't have to do anything with them. The lineup, as is, can take the ice tomorrow.

    That said, they have 4 NHL dmen, assuming Smith is in the minors, and including DeAngelo (who hasn't played a full NHL season). I think they absolutely need to bring in a 7th dman with some experience.
    How much of Smith's cap hit gets buried if/when we send him down?
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlairBettsBlocksEverything View Post
    How much of Smith's cap hit gets buried if/when we send him down?
    Just under a million, I think.

    edit - Burying Smith makes his cap hit 3.275M, so it's 1.075M in savings; Beleskey saves us around another 825k. Basically add 2m to our current cap space assuming both of those outcomes.
    Last edited by G1000; 08-12-2019 at 01:08 PM.
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    I still think Namestnikov will be moved for peanuts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    I still think Namestnikov will be moved for peanuts.
    I would love that but I don't know what team would want to take him/have room to take him. I guess we can retain some of his contract but that kind of defeats the purpose of moving his $4mil if we end up retaining half, even with him going to UFA next year

    teams that have room for him Cap wise (assuming all $4 mil is taken + teams that have slightly more than $4 mil in cap space aren't going to utilize the rest of their cap on him/teams with RFA's still to sign aren't taking him in) Also not including Ottawa because their owner isn't going to pay the salary dollars regardless of cap space

    Columbus has over $16 mil in space - While they have the space and it might be worth a gamble when they have 0 expectations, I don't think Namestnikov offers them anything for 1 year that makes it worth giving up any assets for, even peanuts, to do a divisional rival a favor

    Philly has over $13 mil - similar situation as Columbus, they aren't trying to do us any favors

    Colorado has over $16 mil - Maybe a possibility here. Namestnikov has shown he can perform with an elite C, maybe MacKinnon could use him as a winger for a bit

    Minnesota has almost $9.5 mil - I don't think Namestnikov provides them anything they would need. They are a team that needs some organizational direction and this type of move just reeks of the old leadership. they also don't even have a GM to negotiate with

    Winnipeg has almost $17 mil - They could potentially have a use for him but they still need to sign Laine an Connor to deals that will likely take up a good chunk of that space

    Anaheim has over $8 mil - they have space but they are rebuilding and i don't see a huge motivation for them to give up anything at all for a guy that won't be in their long term plans
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  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlairBettsBlocksEverything View Post
    I would love that but I don't know what team would want to take him/have room to take him. I guess we can retain some of his contract but that kind of defeats the purpose of moving his $4mil if we end up retaining half, even with him going to UFA next year

    teams that have room for him Cap wise (assuming all $4 mil is taken + teams that have slightly more than $4 mil in cap space aren't going to utilize the rest of their cap on him/teams with RFA's still to sign aren't taking him in) Also not including Ottawa because their owner isn't going to pay the salary dollars regardless of cap space

    Columbus has over $16 mil in space - While they have the space and it might be worth a gamble when they have 0 expectations, I don't think Namestnikov offers them anything for 1 year that makes it worth giving up any assets for, even peanuts, to do a divisional rival a favor

    Philly has over $13 mil - similar situation as Columbus, they aren't trying to do us any favors

    Colorado has over $16 mil - Maybe a possibility here. Namestnikov has shown he can perform with an elite C, maybe MacKinnon could use him as a winger for a bit

    Minnesota has almost $9.5 mil - I don't think Namestnikov provides them anything they would need. They are a team that needs some organizational direction and this type of move just reeks of the old leadership. they also don't even have a GM to negotiate with

    Winnipeg has almost $17 mil - They could potentially have a use for him but they still need to sign Laine an Connor to deals that will likely take up a good chunk of that space

    Anaheim has over $8 mil - they have space but they are rebuilding and i don't see a huge motivation for them to give up anything at all for a guy that won't be in their long term plans
    With retention, Ottawa?
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