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Thread: NJD Acquire Nikita Gusev from VGK for 2021 2nd-Round Pick, 2020 3rd-Round Pick

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Half the league makes the playoffs so by definition, the worst playoff team is still "average" or "mediocre"... As in... Falling in the middle. So... Not bad.
    League average can be bad. League average can be good. In 2017, average in the West was way better than average in the East.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    League average can be bad. League average can be good. In 2017, average in the West was way better than average in the East.
    While watching you paint yourself into a corner over this made up statement is highly entertaining, the fact is they had 30 more points than the "bad" teams.

    Maybe you can list out the teams who are bad vs good, stats and standings be damned, so that we all know what the difference is? Then at least we can all work from your frame of reference since it's basically manufactured from thin air.

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    Strangely, the bad Rangers were even with the Good teams in the west until the trade deadline.


    NHL has a way to determine this, they call it the playoffs. You're either a playoff team, or youre a non-playoff team.
    Lias Andersson for #AJT2019

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    While watching you paint yourself into a corner over this made up statement is highly entertaining, the fact is they had 30 more points than the "bad" teams.

    Maybe you can list out the teams who are bad vs good, stats and standings be damned, so that we all know what the difference is? Then at least we can all work from your frame of reference since it's basically manufactured from thin air.
    I literally did that already when you brought up "mediocre." You are just arguing about the definition of bad. Pick whatever terms you want.

    Being playoff quality doesn't mean that you're a good team, in any sport, and standings don't determine quality. If they do, then this year's Lightning (128 pts) were no better than the 16-17 Caps (118 pts). The 16-17 Rangers (102 pts) were no better than the 17-18 Devils (97 points). Christ, just look at the 16-17 Atlantic. They had 4 playoff teams, but nobody would say they had 4 good teams.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    I literally did that already when you brought up "mediocre." You are just arguing about the definition of bad. Pick whatever terms you want.

    Being playoff quality doesn't mean that you're a good team, in any sport, and standings don't determine quality. If they do, then this year's Lightning (128 pts) were no better than the 16-17 Caps (118 pts). The 16-17 Rangers (102 pts) were no better than the 17-18 Devils (97 points). Christ, just look at the 16-17 Atlantic. They had 4 playoff teams, but nobody would say they had 4 good teams.
    Right. Mediocre. Not bad.

    You want to live in a world where teams are either good or bad. That world doesn't exist.

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    so some teams are bad good, some are medium good, and others are super good. I guess its the degree of goodness we cant agree on.

    maybe you should've said that the Devils with 97 points weren't that good. But they weren't bad. Buffalo, Ottawa were bad

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    Quote Originally Posted by CCCP View Post
    so some teams are bad good, some are medium good, and others are super good. I guess its the degree of goodness we cant agree on.

    maybe you should've said that the Devils with 97 points weren't that good. But they weren't bad. Buffalo, Ottawa were bad
    Well this is still an implication that the Devils were good lol.

    I'd say they were bad. Buffalo and Ottawa were super duper bad.

  8. #48
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    agree to disagree. but you're wrong

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    Because when a team is 15th in goals for, 17th in goals against, 21st in SAT%, and has one player score on 38% of the team's goals (with a career-high SH%, btw), they are bad. Especially when a third of the league was sellers by Christmas.

    They're bad in the same way that Edmonton is bad. McDavid can get them to the playoffs by himself, but they still suck.
    Even if we used these stats as the sole basis for forming an opinion, being ranked 15th and 17th is right in the middle of the league in terms of rank. That's the definition of mediocre at the worst no?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    Even if we used these stats as the sole basis for forming an opinion, being ranked 15th and 17th is right in the middle of the league in terms of rank. That's the definition of mediocre at the worst no?
    It's average. Depending on the quality of competition, average can be bad. Average can be good. That year, the league as a whole was down, so the middle of the pack was bad, particularly in the East.

    Good/Bad has context outside of a single season. I mean, we talk all the time about how it's difficult to compare things like goal scoring from era to era. A great goal scorer in 2019 might score 50. That doesn't necessarily mean they're a better goal scorer than someone who scored 40 pre-lockout. In 2004, 3 guys (Rick Nash, Kovalchuk, Iginla) scored more than 40 goals - all had 41. This year, 11 guys did it. Are we going to sit here and say that Alex DeBrincat is a better goal scorer than Jarome Iginla? Is Robin Lehner (.914) a better goalie than Mike Richter (.904) because he has a better sv%? The same thing applies to teams. Being in the playoffs one year doesn't mean your as good as the teams who made the playoffs another year.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCCP View Post
    agree to disagree. but you're wrong
    Who would you pick in a series, the 16-17 Preds, or the 17-18 Devils?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    It's average. Depending on the quality of competition, average can be bad. Average can be good. That year, the league as a whole was down, so the middle of the pack was bad, particularly in the East.

    Good/Bad has context outside of a single season. I mean, we talk all the time about how it's difficult to compare things like goal scoring from era to era. A great goal scorer in 2019 might score 50. That doesn't necessarily mean they're a better goal scorer than someone who scored 40 pre-lockout. In 2004, 3 guys (Rick Nash, Kovalchuk, Iginla) scored more than 40 goals - all had 41. This year, 11 guys did it. Are we going to sit here and say that Alex DeBrincat is a better goal scorer than Jarome Iginla? Is Robin Lehner (.914) a better goalie than Mike Richter (.904) because he has a better sv%? The same thing applies to teams. Being in the playoffs one year doesn't mean your as good as the teams who made the playoffs another year.
    I don't think anyone was saying they were a mediocre team in the context of an NHL era. That's a stretch. They were mediocre relative to other teams that season. If you want to call them bad because you think teams with similar rankings in other years were better, then it's completely subjective just like your player example.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    Who would you pick in a series, the 16-17 Preds, or the 17-18 Devils?
    I dont see relevance. Would you pick 16-17 Preds or 18-19 Blues?

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    Who would you pick in a series, the 16-17 Preds, or the 17-18 Devils?
    2018-19 Lightning or 2018-19 Islanders?

    Please, bet money on the matchup, too.


    Shoo fly.
    Lias Andersson for #AJT2019

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    You know what? The 18-19 Islanders weren't BAD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    You know what? The 18-19 Islanders weren't BAD.
    Pfft. You don't know that. Have you cross referenced them with the rest of the Eastern Conference teams between 2004-2018?

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    I'm trying to work out whether this discussion is average or bad.

  18. #58
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    Its bad. Popular but very bad. Almost as bad as the Andersson discussion
    Last edited by Albatross; 08-03-2019 at 01:10 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CCCP View Post
    I dont see relevance. Would you pick 16-17 Preds or 18-19 Blues?
    It's relevant because they were both 8 seeds but one of those teams is clearly better than the other. Nobody sane would pick the Devils in that series but, by your logic, the Devils are the better team.

    Based on your perspective, they aren't comparable, because they're different seeds. The higher seed (Blues) is the team you'd take every time, but I don't think the Blues were that much better last year than that Preds team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    I don't think anyone was saying they were a mediocre team in the context of an NHL era. That's a stretch. They were mediocre relative to other teams that season. If you want to call them bad because you think teams with similar rankings in other years were better, then it's completely subjective just like your player example.
    I mean of course it's subjective.

    I have been saying that being in the playoffs that year doesn't make them good, relative to the era, if you want to put it that way. Others are saying that they had 97 points and made the playoffs so they are. Were they average that year, sure. But average doesn't mean good in a larger context.

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