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Thread: The Salary-Cap Hell the Rangers are Still Trying to Navigate

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    They can get rid of the cap space without giving up assets. They aren’t in caphell like Toronto’s and aren’t trying to win the cup next season, either. The goal is to win every season in the 2020s. No reason to be giving up any assets right now.
    It's not cap hell, but it is a problem. They need cap space to sign their RFAs. Buyouts are not an option.

    I don't see how it can be done without giving up assets. Everyone else has done so while giving up assets. How are the Rangers going to do so?

    I'll gladly deal Andersson to have the Shattenkirk cap space and sign all RFA's AND Kreider to an extension.

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    You are saying “I’d give up Kravtsov and Trouba just for the cap space”.
    Lias Andersson for #AJT2019

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    It's not cap hell, but it is a problem. They need cap space to sign their RFAs. Buyouts are not an option.

    I don't see how it can be done without giving up assets. Everyone else has done so while giving up assets. How are the Rangers going to do so?

    I'll gladly deal Andersson to have the Shattenkirk cap space and sign all RFA's AND Kreider to an extension.
    Giving up an asset would not be the worst thing right now. I don’t think they should do so in the interest of keeping Kreider though, especially if it means paying him $50 million dollars on a contract that won’t kick in until next summer when he’s 29 and pays him till a couple months after his 36th birthday. But if they can move an asset to move out salary to keep the RFA’s and extend Trouba, it doesn’t kill them given where they are in their build.

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    Girardi added a like to Brooks article.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    There is if you can't dump Namestnikov. It forces them to buyout Shattenkirk + Smith, or to trade Kreider, who may have been traded anyway, but won't be dealt for max value because of the timing and the fact other teams recognize the bind the Rangers are in. It may not quite be "hell," but it's getting too hot for comfort.
    Hence why I said “cap hell“. It’s simply not. They don’t have to dump anyone of consequence for the long term. Yeah, they may have to perform a less than ideal buyout. Worst case scenario is trading Kreider for futures, something they already tried to do at the draft. “Cap hell” in my book is having to deal pieces that really hurts to lose, a la Toronto. This isn’t anywhere near that. It’s a sensationalist headline. Signing Panarin would always have consequences, we all knew that. Now they have to make decisions on a couple of players. It is what it is, it’s perfectly manageable and there’s really no need to sound the klaxons.
    Last edited by Gravesy; 07-18-2019 at 05:07 AM.

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    It’s July, not September. We paid open market price to acquire A/A-/B+ players with possible consequences on retaining B+/B-/C players. It’s still a net upgrade and we still have time to maneuver. You don’t judge a home renovation when the scaffolding is still up and the external walls are ripped open.
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    If memory serves me right they are allowed to be a certain percentage over the cap until sometime in September. A lot of things can happen in 2 months.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJWantsTheCup View Post
    If memory serves me right they are allowed to be a certain percentage over the cap until sometime in September. A lot of things can happen in 2 months.
    Just enough time for Shattenkirk or Smith to develop some kind of career ending back problem that conveniently puts them on LTIR for the rest of their contracts
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    How is the state of the team and the age of the players not a consideration here?

    I hate when people automatically disregard or act disingenuous when it suits them.
    It is...If we're saying Kreider isn't a priority, then neither were any of those guys, because they're doing the exact same thing. I think they were all a priority, to varying degrees.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    Hence why I said “cap hell“. It’s simply not. They don’t have to dump anyone of consequence for the long term. Yeah, they may have to perform a less than ideal buyout. Worst case scenario is trading Kreider for futures, something they already tried to do at the draft. “Cap hell” in my book is having to deal pieces that really hurts to lose, a la Toronto. This isn’t anywhere near that. It’s a sensationalist headline. Signing Panarin would always have consequences, we all knew that. Now they have to make decisions on a couple of players. It is what it is, it’s perfectly manageable and there’s really no need to sound the klaxons.
    That's fine. I don't really disagree in principle, but we're definitely getting hung up on the wrong thing (the title). The only factor that matters is that they're behind the eight-ball regarding their ability to keep their remaining RFAs until a number of these middling players are gone, and it might have to come via more than one buyout. They can afford it, but the numbers are still ugly.
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  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlairBettsBlocksEverything View Post
    Just enough time for Shattenkirk or Smith to develop some kind of career ending back problem that conveniently puts them on LTIR for the rest of their contracts
    LTIR isn't free money — it's a mechanism by which teams who otherwise exceed the cap can do so plus the value of the LTIR contract.

    In other words, if Shattenkirk developed the same skin rash as Hossa, that $6M+ is only available to the Rangers in the event they exceed the cap, and only up to whatever the full AAV of Shattenkirk is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    It is...If we're saying Kreider isn't a priority, then neither were any of those guys, because they're doing the exact same thing. I think they were all a priority, to varying degrees.
    Kreider not being signed in July doesn't mean they don't have a plan. They probably have several plans, to be honest.

    Kreider not being a priority doesn't mean they have no plan. They probably view him with a value to the team than maybe you do.

    Reality is that he's not critical. They're deep on the wings and they can live without him. If he's moved this summer and they don't think they're as deep as they want to be, they'll make a trade or a run at Hall.

    If he's not moved this summer and plays the year as a potential UFA, if they're a playoff team, he's their rental. If they're not he'll be moved.

    The difference between Kreider and the other guys you mentioned is that the state of the team is much different now. Everyone knew those guys were moving, and why.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by RangersIn7 View Post
    Not when they can bury Smith in Hartford and all 4 of their bad contracts come off the books in 24 months
    2 years from now isn't a problem. Right now is.

    If Trouba makes $7.2m, then, right now, the Rangers do not have the cap space for him alone, let alone him, Buch, ADA, and Lemieux. The cap limit is $81.5m, and they're currently at $74.4.

    Buying out Smith and Shatty saves you ~$8.5m this year, which gives you most of the wiggle room you need. But they carry $9m of dead cap next year.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Kreider not being signed in July doesn't mean they don't have a plan. They probably have several plans, to be honest.

    Kreider not being a priority doesn't mean they have no plan. They probably view him with a value to the team than maybe you do.

    Reality is that he's not critical. They're deep on the wings and they can live without him. If he's moved this summer and they don't think they're as deep as they want to be, they'll make a trade or a run at Hall.

    If he's not moved this summer and plays the year as a potential UFA, if they're a playoff team, he's their rental. If they're not he'll be moved.

    The difference between Kreider and the other guys you mentioned is that the state of the team is much different now. Everyone knew those guys were moving, and why.
    Well first of all, Kreider is just one small piece of why I say they have no plan, not the entire thing. Several plans pretty much just means no plan.

    They flat out said that they don't want to go into this season with players on expiring contracts like they did last year, so they aren't going to try to view Kreider as a rental.

    State of the team is the same it was then. When that season started, they said they were trying to "rebuild on the fly" or whatever, and were still positioning themselves as a playoff team - especially when they signed Shatty. If they played better and didn't have the injuries, they probably don't send the letter. This year it's the same thing with Panarin and Trouba. They might end up being bad, but the expectations are absolutely raised.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    LTIR isn't free money — it's a mechanism by which teams who otherwise exceed the cap can do so plus the value of the LTIR contract.

    In other words, if Shattenkirk developed the same skin rash as Hossa, that $6M+ is only available to the Rangers in the event they exceed the cap, and only up to whatever the full AAV of Shattenkirk is.
    just meant it in jest

    but yeah we have plenty of time to address the cap issue and im not worried

    the use of the word cap hell would imply we have to trade key players to get under the cap.
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  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    Well first of all, Kreider is just one small piece of why I say they have no plan, not the entire thing. Several plans pretty much just means no plan.

    They flat out said that they don't want to go into this season with players on expiring contracts like they did last year, so they aren't going to try to view Kreider as a rental.

    State of the team is the same it was then. When that season started, they said they were trying to "rebuild on the fly" or whatever, and were still positioning themselves as a playoff team - especially when they signed Shatty. If they played better and didn't have the injuries, they probably don't send the letter. This year it's the same thing with Panarin and Trouba. They might end up being bad, but the expectations are absolutely raised.
    The state of the team is night and day.

    Those teams didn't have the top talent to compete, on the team or in the pipeline and they had no picks. So we're already a thousand percent different today than the day Nash and Grabner were traded. Or Stepan, to be honest.

    What they say in the media about not wanting expiring contracts on the team could purely be fodder or a mechanism to get Kreider signed. They surely don't care about Strome and Names on expiring deals.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlairBettsBlocksEverything View Post
    just meant it in jest

    but yeah we have plenty of time to address the cap issue and im not worried

    the use of the word cap hell would imply we have to trade key players to get under the cap.
    It is cap hell because it's really hard to move junk out and take no salary back.

    They have to be banking on buyouts this year and big jump in cap next year.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    2 years from now isn't a problem. Right now is.

    If Trouba makes $7.2m, then, right now, the Rangers do not have the cap space for him alone, let alone him, Buch, ADA, and Lemieux. The cap limit is $81.5m, and they're currently at $74.4.

    Buying out Smith and Shatty saves you ~$8.5m this year, which gives you most of the wiggle room you need. But they carry $9m of dead cap next year.
    Which isn't actually a problem. They have no one of importance to keep next year (unless you think Georgiev is going to cost them an arm and a leg).
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  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    It is cap hell because it's really hard to move junk out and take no salary back.

    They have to be banking on buyouts this year and big jump in cap next year.
    Buyouts, yes. Big jump, eh. It can go up the same 2.5–5% and they'll be just fine. There's no one they need to lock up next summer and arguably nothing on the free-agent market they need to add.
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  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    Buyouts, yes. Big jump, eh. It can go up the same 2.5–5% and they'll be just fine. There's no one they need to lock up next summer and arguably nothing on the free-agent market they need to add.
    They might need to try and add a wing if they move CK.

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