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The Salary-Cap Hell the Rangers are Still Trying to Navigate


Phil

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Well no it doesn't, but also, so what?

 

The buyouts can be restrictive if the Rangers want to have the flexibility to do anything next offseason.

 

In the event that all four, or even most of them progress, what explicit need will the Rangers have to even go down the route of trades or free agency for big fish players?

 

"Do anything," again implies that they'll need to. That they haven't already added many, if not most of the pieces they'll need to convert into contenders again. On paper, the long-term solutions are already signed (Panarin, Zibanejad, Kakko, Kravtsov, Skjei, Fox, Shesterkin, Rykov, Reunanen?), will be signed (Trouba, Chytil, Buchnevich?), or will sign their ELCs near the opening of the 2020/2021 window (Miller, Lundkvist, Robertson, Henriksson, Jones).

 

Buyouts aren't actually going to restrict anything except their urge to sign players who they don't actually need.

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In the event that all four, or even most of them progress, what explicit need will the Rangers have to even go down the route of trades or free agency for big fish players?

 

"Do anything," again implies that they'll need to. That they haven't already added many, if not most of the pieces they'll need to convert into contenders again. On paper, the long-term solutions are already signed (Panarin, Zibanejad, Kakko, Kravtsov, Skjei, Fox, Shesterkin, Rykov, Reunanen?), will be signed (Trouba, Chytil, Buchnevich?), or will sign their ELCs near the opening of the 2020/2021 window (Miller, Lundkvist, Robertson, Henriksson, Jones).

 

They buyouts aren't actually going to restrict anything except their urge to sign players who they don't actually need.

 

Maybe, but even then, a Shattenkirk or Smith, or Staal, or even a Namestnikov buyout wouldn't really stop us from throwing 9m/y at Mike Hoffman.

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It's $6,083,333

 

Which is less than $6,650,000 that Shattenkirk would hit the roster for in 2020 anyway. We'd replace him with Yegor Rykov or whatever, and the total hit for Rykov and the Shattenkirk buyout would be 7,008,333. A difference of literally 358K

 

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. Do math!

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In the event that all four, or even most of them progress, what explicit need will the Rangers have to even go down the route of trades or free agency for big fish players?

 

"Do anything," again implies that they'll need to. That they haven't already added many, if not most of the pieces they'll need to convert into contenders again. On paper, the long-term solutions are already signed (Panarin, Zibanejad, Kakko, Kravtsov, Skjei, Fox, Shesterkin, Rykov, Reunanen?), will be signed (Trouba, Chytil, Buchnevich?), or will sign their ELCs near the opening of the 2020/2021 window (Miller, Lundkvist, Robertson, Henriksson, Jones).

 

Buyouts aren't actually going to restrict anything except their urge to sign players who they don't actually need.

It's not about need, or long term.

 

The second you signed Panarin, it became a win-now team. If they are a playoff team this year, and struggle to score, they could very easily say "we need scoring depth at the wing." It doesn't matter what the ELC guys might be in 2023.

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Eh, not sure I buy that either.

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/1337124

 

Even with the Shattenkirk buyout, we'd be sitting on 16.5 in cap space for next offseason so long as we can find someone to take either Smith or Namestnikov in a trade. More than enough to either keep Strome/Kreider (or both) and make a reasonable splash if we wanted to.

 

edit - in theory, even the Smith trade I've got here isn't necessary if we buy out Shattenkirk.

We're talking about buying out BOTH Smith and Shatty. For next year, without signing Trouba, ADA, Buch, Lemieux, or Georgiev, you're already at a $63m committment. Assuming an $84m cap:

 

Trouba - 8

ADA - 1.5

Buch - 3

Lemieux - 1

Georgiev - 2

Shatty/Smith Buyout - 9

 

You're at $76.5m...subtract the ~2m savings from the buyout, and you've got just over $10m with only 9 forwards signed and needing room for potential bonus payouts. If your 10-13 forwards only cost you $4m and you pay half the bonuses ($2m), you've only got $4m left to play with.

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We're talking about buying out BOTH Smith and Shatty. For next year, without signing Trouba, ADA, Buch, Lemieux, or Georgiev, you're already at a $63m committment. I think that's where your $16m comes from, but you're not accounting for unsigned players. Assuming an $84m cap:

 

Trouba - 8

ADA - 1.5

Buch - 3

Lemieux - 1

Georgiev - 2

Shatty/Smith Buyout - 9

 

You're at $76.5m...subtract the ~2m savings from the buyout, and you've got just over $10m with only 9 forwards signed and needing room for potential bonus payouts. If your 10-13 forwards only cost you $4m and you pay half the bonuses ($2m), you've only got $4m left to play with.

 

No, I'm DEFINITELY accounting for unsigned players.

 

edit - I'm talking about 2020-2021 here; not 2019-2020. Click the link and head to long-term outlook. The math checks out.

 

1 - Don't buy out Smith. Use a D prospect and a pick to bribe someone to take him

2 - I'm at 16.5M with no new deal for Georgiev, Strome, Fast, Kreider, Namestnikov, or Nieves. It's three, maybe 4 forward spots, if that. Likely backfilled with fresh legs and not FA market players with the exception of maybe Kreider.

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Kravtsov is unproven, and Trouba is an often injured expensive dman.

 

Andersson stinks and Shattenkirk doesn't fit. Trouba brings a different element to this teams D that is lacking. He's somewhat physical and produces points as well as being competent in his own end.

 

Kravstov is definitely unknown and I am sceptical about that pick as well, but he most definitely comes in much higher on the depth chart than Andersson.

 

All of the kids had pretty long leashes (except DeAngelo) under Quinn. Andersson couldn't crack the lineup of a shitty rebuilding team. They have to be pretty down on him considering reclamation project Strome got more icetime, as did Boo Nieves.

He's not really talked about as a guy that is a part of this coming season....

 

If someone is willing to take Shattenkirk at the cost of Andersson, and give something of any value back, I think they have to do it.

 

I don't see a spot for Andersson. I mean do we want to keep him for a 4th line gig? I don't. He should have been given Hayes role as soon as Hayes was dealt. I don't think he was even on the roster or called up very quickly after Hayes was dealt.. They traded a center in Hayes and hardly played Andersson, and when they did it was at wing.. So much for NHL ready. I move on while he's still considered a prospect. Capitalize on what ever worth he has now, because I only see it going down more.

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No, I'm DEFINITELY accounting for unsigned players.

 

edit - I'm talking about 2020-2021 here; not 2019-2020

Yea I misread your link at first. But the team you put together isn't for 2020-21, because it has a bunch of players (Kreider, Fast, Namest, Strome) who are pending UFAs and Georgiev on an ELC. It also has a cap hit of 78.7. I'm really not sure where you're getting $16m from.

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Yea I misread your link at first. But the team you put together isn't for 2020-21, because it has a bunch of players (Kreider, Fast, Namest, Strome) who are pending UFAs and Georgiev on an ELC. It also has a cap hit of 78.7. I'm really not sure where you're getting $16m from.

 

Click the link, navigate to long term outlook.

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Which is less than $6,650,000 that Shattenkirk would hit the roster for in 2020 anyway. We'd replace him with Yegor Rykov or whatever, and the total hit for Rykov and the Shattenkirk buyout would be 7,008,333. A difference of literally 358K

 

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. Do math!

 

The point of a buyout is to save cap space. You showed you didnt. DO COMMON SENSE

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Click the link, navigate to long term outlook.

Ah, ok.

 

That doesn't have the Smith buyout. So take $3m off. You don't have a backup goalie (Georgiev) signed, take $2m. You have 9 F and 6 D signed, so you need to add another 5 players. If they're all $1m, that's another $5m. Now you're down to $6m, best-case scenario, without bonus payouts.

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The point of a buyout is to save cap space. You showed you didnt. DO COMMON SENSE

 

Stop moving the bar on the conversation. You can't go "that won't let us re-sign Kreider", then go "but the buyout's too big to re-sign Kreider", then go "BUT THAT DOESN'T SAVE MONEY" when it objectively ensures we save a ton this year.

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Eh, not sure I buy that either.

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/1337124

 

Even with the Shattenkirk buyout, we'd be sitting on 16.5 in cap space for next offseason so long as we can find someone to take either Smith or Namestnikov in a trade. More than enough to either keep Strome/Kreider (or both) and make a reasonable splash if we wanted to.

 

edit - in theory, even the Smith trade I've got here isn't necessary if we buy out Shattenkirk.

 

If you don't trade Smith, you'll still need to clear out a couple of million. Burying him isn't enough.

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Ah, ok.

 

That doesn't have the Smith buyout. So take $3m off. You don't have a backup goalie (Georgiev) signed, take $2m. You have 9 F and 6 D signed, so you need to add another 5 players. If they're all $1m, that's another $5m. Now you're down to $6m, best-case scenario, without bonus payouts.

 

No Smith buyout. Kicked him away + Ryan Lindgren and a pick for...well, a pick.

 

No need to re-sign Georgiev. Deal him, bring up Shesterkin (925K).

 

No need for another defender; bring up Rykov, or Lundkvist, or Miller, or Reunanen, or whomever. (800K)

 

Assuming we'll see a few forwards shine and some not; maybe we re-up Kreider/Strome. Maybe we bring up Barron and Aaltonen or McKegg. (ELCs or so apiece).

 

Sitting at 12 forwards, 7 defenders, no Kreider, and about 10m in room. Less performance bonuses, maybe you're at 8; maybe they had a great year and you're at 6.

 

Regardless, it's really quite doable.

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He shared the Capfriendly link which shows it saves cap space this year at the expense of next year, but it also shows that the dead cap hit is absorbed quite easily next year.

 

That's kind of the bigger point.

 

We've got so many ELCs on the roster in the next two years that getting hammered by a buyout hit next year almost doesn't matter. It really might matter to have the cap space this year, though; clearing 5M off 2019-20 is going to be the difference between keeping a quality player like ADA or Buch or having to deal them.

 

I'd be fucking pissed if we dealt either of them and kept Shattenkirk, Smith, or Staal.

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No Smith buyout. Kicked him away + Ryan Lindgren and a pick for...well, a pick.

 

No need to re-sign Georgiev. Deal him, bring up Shesterkin (925K).

 

No need for another defender; bring up Rykov, or Lundkvist, or Miller, or Reunanen, or whomever. (800K)

 

Assuming we'll see a few forwards shine and some not; maybe we re-up Kreider/Strome. Maybe we bring up Barron and Aaltonen or McKegg. (ELCs or so apiece).

 

Sitting at 12 forwards, 7 defenders, no Kreider, and about 10m in room. Less performance bonuses, maybe you're at 8; maybe they had a great year and you're at 6.

 

Regardless, it's really quite doable.

The whole context of this conversation is that you have to buyout Smith and Shatty because they can't trade Strome and Namest.

 

Sure, it's easier if you can trade Smtih with no retention.

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Bury him and Nieves and we're clear this year.

 

I don't think that's enough, and then you're below roster size. You could always bury Smith and then buyout Strome with next to no penalty. I know there are some that like Strome, but he's not really a long term solution for this team.

 

And all of this buyout talk is assuming there are ZERO teams that want Namestnikov, Strome, or can't be talked or bribed into taking Smith or Shattenkirk with a B asset like you've already shown with the hypothetical Ottawa trade. Gorton's got options here.

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The whole context of this conversation is that you have to buyout Smith and Shatty because they can't trade Strome and Namest.

 

Sure, it's easier if you can trade Smtih with no retention.

 

I'm not sure we should be dealing Strome right this moment, but replace Smith with Namestnikov and you get basically the same outcome, less 250k.

 

In an ideal world, we trade both of them and keep Shattenkirk/Staal for another season, probably, before buying out or trading. That's likely not going to be the case; not without retention, potentially bribery, etc.

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I'm not sure we should be dealing Strome right this moment, but replace Smith with Namestnikov and you get basically the same outcome, less 250k.

 

In an ideal world, we trade both of them and keep Shattenkirk/Staal for another season, probably, before buying out or trading. That's likely not going to be the case; not without retention, potentially bribery, etc.

I don't think you're understanding. We aren't talking about options. We are talking about them having to buy out both Smtih and Shatty. Yes, there are 500 more helpful alternatives.

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I don't think that's enough, and then you're below roster size. You could always bury Smith and then buyout Strome with next to no penalty. I know there are some that like Strome, but he's not really a long term solution for this team.

 

We'd still be OK on roster number (13F, 6D, 2G), and I believe we'd be clear on cap too but by much, much less. Sending Smith to the minors has a cap hit of 3.275M; we'd be clear, but by a hair.

 

And all of this buyout talk is assuming there are ZERO teams that want Namestnikov, Strome, or can't be talked or bribed into taking Smith or Shattenkirk with a B asset like you've already shown with the hypothetical Ottawa trade. Gorton's got options here.

 

Also true, though, cap space is probably the most premium asset in the league right now.

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I don't think you're understanding. We aren't talking about options. We are talking about them having to buy out both Smtih and Shatty. Yes, there are 500 more helpful alternatives.

 

I don't think that's actually a option though, is it?

 

Am I wrong in thinking you can only have three buyouts on the books at any given time? We've got 2 (Girardi, Spooner). Or am I thinking of retained salary transactions?

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