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The Salary-Cap Hell the Rangers are Still Trying to Navigate


Phil

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I love how everyone wants to credit other people for a player's success when it suits them.

As if playing PP1 and chucking 400 shots on net from bad angles, with Thornton Marleau Pavelski Coutoure didn't have anything to do with Burns getting 70 points.

 

It's utter speculation he'd get to 70 on any team same as it's utter speculation that Carlson wouldn't.

 

Hint.... When good players play together, they all benefit from each other... Unless you're a generational talent like Sid Mario or Gretzky... Even Lindros.

 

Even Ovi always had talented centermen. That's OK, Brett Hull did, too.

Nonsense.

 

There's a difference between Carlson getting a huge bump in points by just passing it to Ovi and Kuz, and Burns scoring 29 goals and driving the PP.

 

I love how people dismiss things as "utter speculation" when it suits them.

 

No shit that good players playing together make each other better. Nobody said anything otherwise.

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Nonsense.

 

There's a difference between Carlson getting a huge bump in points by just passing it to Ovi and Kuz, and Burns scoring 29 goals and driving the PP.

 

I love how people dismiss things as "utter speculation" when it suits them.

 

No shit that good players playing together make each other better. Nobody said anything otherwise.

 

Nonsense. Nothing left to say.

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Assists are an imperfect stat. Big difference between a defenseman getting a secondary assist on a short pass in the defensive zone leading to a goal versus a forward getting a primary assist dishing the puck across the front of the net for a tap-in.

https://www.icydata.hockey/player_stats/primary-and-secondary/27/stats

breaks down primary, secondary assists, other stats

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Assists are an imperfect stat. Big difference between a defenseman getting a secondary assist on a short pass in the defensive zone leading to a goal versus a forward getting a primary assist dishing the puck across the front of the net for a tap-in.

https://www.icydata.hockey/player_stats/primary-and-secondary/27/stats

breaks down primary, secondary assists, other stats

 

Is there?

 

If that pass springs a 2v1, who made the play?

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Is there?

 

If that pass springs a 2v1, who made the play?

 

Right... my point stands in that hockey has imperfect metrics to assess a player's contribution with secondary assists being an example. Forwards and defensemen tend to play on the same lines, so the best we can do is stats like Corsi and Fenwick, but really it's easier to say that a particular line is producing rather than an individual player's contribution. Same with a hot power play versus one not producing, etc.

 

Sure, if you spring a 2-1 the secondary assist may be the most important play. If a forward weaves through a couple defenders before dishing for a tap-in goal, the primary assist may be the most important play. And a lot of times a wicked shot is the most important play.

 

Playing a lot of time on the power play sure helps your goal and assist totals, but you've got to be an offensive threat and produce to get the power play time. And if you're a defenseman, time in the offensive zone with the top two forward lines are going to give you more opportunities for points. So you just can't look at the top ten point totals for NHL defenseman and say that they are the top ten offensive threats in the league.

 

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?reportType=season&seasonFrom=20182019&seasonTo=20182019&gameType=2&position=D&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=points,goals,gamesPlayed

 

5 Yandle 62 points

6 Gustafsson 60 points

7 Barrie 59 points

8 Letang 56 points

9 Josi 56 points

10 Chabot 55 points

11 Hedman 54 points

12 Krug 53 points

13 Trouba 50 points

14 Suter 47 points

 

So after the top four defensemen, not much difference between 5 and 14. Yes, I know there are differences in games played. But you would have to do a deep dive to rationalize how to rank this group from 5 to 14. You want to put Letang or Hedman at 5 because they played less games and have historically produced? Fine. You want to penalize Letang and Hedman because they play on explosive teams and give credit to Chabot or Suter? You could argue that as well.

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I think avoiding trading Kreider is key. His status as a role model for training and preparation is great for this young team. They need his secondary scoring for this budding roster and he brings physicality and a battle level which will help mold these young guys. I say pursue anything but the loss of Chris Kreider. Say good bye to Shattenkirk, he didnt live up to what he was supposed to be and we have others to fill his role. Why would we keep him around? Will his buyout really handcuff this team for the next two years or do we have enough coming off of the books to fulfill the necessary contracts to keep trucking forward to contention?
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I think avoiding trading Kreider is key. His status as a role model for training and preparation is great for this young team. They need his secondary scoring for this budding roster and he brings physicality and a battle level which will help mold these young guys. I say pursue anything but the loss of Chris Kreider. Say good bye to Shattenkirk, he didnt live up to what he was supposed to be and we have others to fill his role. Why would we keep him around? Will his buyout really handcuff this team for the next two years or do we have enough coming off of the books to fulfill the necessary contracts to keep trucking forward to contention?

 

Why?

You have to trade him or re-sign him and they aren’t going to re-sign him. Or you lose him for nothing next summer.

And don’t say the deadline cause you’ll get more for him now then you will in February and you won’t have to read 10,000 Larry Brooks articles between now and then about how he’s on the block or counting down the days till he’s dealt and how it’s a business and all that shit. No distractions

Move him

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Why?

You have to trade him or re-sign him and they aren’t going to re-sign him. Or you lose him for nothing next summer.

And don’t say the deadline cause you’ll get more for him now then you will in February and you won’t have to read 10,000 Larry Brooks articles between now and then about how he’s on the block or counting down the days till he’s dealt and how it’s a business and all that shit. No distractions

Move him

 

You don't know this. It depends on the ask, as well as Kreider's desire to stay in NY even if it means a little bit less than he could get on the open market.

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There can't be a lot of deals out there. Seems like everybody has a 2-4 million dollar contract they want to dump, and almost everybody is at the cap.

 

Who is going to take Kreider? Montreal?

 

Lol you word that like Kreider is a cap dump. Teams make room for guys like Kreider if they can, especially contending teams.

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You don't know this. It depends on the ask, as well as Kreider's desire to stay in NY even if it means a little bit less than he could get on the open market.

 

It’s pretty likely at this point.

They haven’t re-signed him and I believe they would have if they were going to.

They tried at the draft and Colorado didn’t want to move their pick.

Dave Maloney, who is more inside the organization than anyone here, came out and said as much last week.

 

And honestly, do you really believe he’s taking a discount?

Or that his ask is going to be less than the ballpark that Hayes got?

You want to pay him for another 8 years?

Till he’s 36?

 

The Rangers know all of this already.

That’s why he has no extension.

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It’s pretty likely at this point.

They haven’t re-signed him and I believe they would have if they were going to.

They tried at the draft and Colorado didn’t want to move their pick.

Dave Maloney, who is more inside the organization than anyone here, came out and said as much last week.

 

And honestly, do you really believe he’s taking a discount?

Or that his ask is going to be less than the ballpark that Hayes got?

You want to pay him for another 8 years?

Till he’s 36?

 

The Rangers know all of this already.

That’s why he has no extension.

 

I'm not sure I believe he would have been re-signed already if that was the intent. They had a lot of other contracts to work out. They've worked most of them out now. It actually seems more likely that if he was going to get traded, it would have been at the draft. It didn't happen. They may have wanted to have this resolved this summer one way or another, but it's looking more likely than not that he will be on the roster this year. If they trade him right now, it will probably be at a pretty good discount.

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I'm not sure I believe he would have been re-signed already if that was the intent. They had a lot of other contracts to work out. They've worked most of them out now. It actually seems more likely that if he was going to get traded, it would have been at the draft. It didn't happen. They may have wanted to have this resolved this summer one way or another, but it's looking more likely than not that he will be on the roster this year. If they trade him right now, it will probably be at a pretty good discount.

 

 

I think it’s just because of 2 reasons

It’s July and no one is really working

And they don’t have the deal they want

 

I think he gets dealt before camp.

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Lol you word that like Kreider is a cap dump. Teams make room for guys like Kreider if they can, especially contending teams.

 

Make room how? Everybody but about two teams, who have no money, are trying to make room. Even on contracts like Kreider's, which has value. Nobody has moved anywhere. Nobody has been able to make room.

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What are the implications for starting the season over the cap? Fines? Lost draft picks? Or is it more like tough shit do what you have to do but you cannot start over the cap?

 

It's pretty damn harsh - any team who skates a team while over the cap forfeits every game played until they go back under

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What are the implications for starting the season over the cap? Fines? Lost draft picks? Or is it more like tough shit do what you have to do but you cannot start over the cap?

 

Discretionary, I believe, but forfeiture of games and draft picks is absolutely in the cards.

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It's pretty damn harsh - any team who skates a team while over the cap forfeits every game played until they go back under

 

Discretionary, I believe, but forfeiture of games and draft picks is absolutely in the cards.

Oh damn, yea that sucks.

We're going to find out real soon what's what

 

grab the fucking popcorn!

 

:popcorn:

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Discretionary, I believe, but forfeiture of games and draft picks is absolutely in the cards.

Yes, but more importantly, the league voids contracts. No team CAN go over the cap. So Buch and Trouba would be voided.

 

Cap penalties the following season occur when performance bonuses put a team over the cap.

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