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Thread: Marner Watch 2019

  1. #1
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    Marner Watch 2019

    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If you’re a good loser, you’re a loser."
    - John Tortorella


    "Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence."
    - Christopher Hitchens

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    This is odd to me. It would have made sense for Carolina to want that, because it kept Aho's cost down, but it doesn't seem like Marner is going to accept anything in that range.

    Seems like they'd be choosing Nylander and whatever comp picks over Marner...and I think that's a pretty odd decision based on last year.

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    I think what McKenzie is getting at is that Toronto wants this to be over with. If Marner signs a 12x7 offer sheet with the Isles, for example, I think they take the picks and are thankful that they no longer have to do this dance. They can argue they tried their earnest to keep him, but the dollars never made sense and they still need/want to field a competitive team.
    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If you’re a good loser, you’re a loser."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    I think what McKenzie is getting at is that Toronto wants this to be over with. If Marner signs a 12x7 offer sheet with the Isles, for example, I think they take the picks and are thankful that they no longer have to do this dance. They can argue they tried their earnest to keep him, but the dollars never made sense and they still need/want to field a competitive team.
    Well right. But my point is that, if 12x7 is what gets him there and they don't want that, they could trade him. If they're fine at that number, then they could have already traded Nylander and gotten there. Waiting for another team to make your decision for you seems silly, if you already know the numbers.

    They must have, all along, thought that they were going to lose Marner, because they haven't dumped significant cap anywhere all offseason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    Well right. But my point is that, if 12x7 is what gets him there and they don't want that, they could trade him. If they're fine at that number, then they could have already traded Nylander and gotten there. Waiting for another team to make your decision for you seems silly, if you already know the numbers.

    They must have, all along, thought that they were going to lose Marner, because they haven't dumped significant cap anywhere all offseason.
    Trading him implies more of a you cutting of the ties, rather than another team doing it for you.

    Also, they're not getting five first-rounders in a trade like they would via offer sheet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    Trading him implies more of a you cutting of the ties, rather than another team doing it for you.

    Also, they're not getting five first-rounders in a trade like they would via offer sheet.
    Who cares? Just say "his contract demands were too high" if you're worried about perception, but that's creating a worry that doesn't need to exist.

    No, but you're not getting five from an offer sheet either lol. It's basically a decision of:

    Marner ($12m), + Nylander return or Nylander ($7m) + Marner return.

    The Marner return isn't going to be 4 firsts, but you'll probably get at least 1 blue-chip prospect and 2 firsts - or something close - which is a fine return. Keeping both was never realistically in the cards. If that decision wasn't made months ago, it's a colossal failure by TOR's leadership. They've tried to get cute and now they're in a position where they have absolutely 0 leverage.

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    McKenzie: Toronto Hoping for a Marner Offer Sheet?

    So potentially.
    Tavares + Four 1st round picks for Marner from Islanders.

    Well done Toronto


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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    Who cares? Just say "his contract demands were too high" if you're worried about perception, but that's creating a worry that doesn't need to exist.

    No, but you're not getting five from an offer sheet either lol. It's basically a decision of:

    Marner ($12m), + Nylander return or Nylander ($7m) + Marner return.

    The Marner return isn't going to be 4 firsts, but you'll probably get at least 1 blue-chip prospect and 2 firsts - or something close - which is a fine return. Keeping both was never realistically in the cards. If that decision wasn't made months ago, it's a colossal failure by TOR's leadership. They've tried to get cute and now they're in a position where they have absolutely 0 leverage.
    The problem with that is that Toronto's had this issue twice in two years now; first Nylander, then Marner. Nylander held them to the fire for over 40 million dollars and then went out and shit the bed for four months. Losing Marner after that debacle would put a clock over Dubas' head really fast; he'd objectively have kept the worse of the two players.

    The other side of this coin is that nobody's really got dollars to pay Marner like he's asking, with the interesting and quite notable exception of the Devils and MAYBE the Kings?
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    Nylander got off to a rough start, but finished with 24 points over the last 35 games, and then went and scored 18 points in 8 games at the World Championships. Should this situation result in a Marner not playing for the Leafs next year, Nylander will put up big numbers playing in his spot on Tavares' wing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by G1000 View Post
    The problem with that is that Toronto's had this issue twice in two years now; first Nylander, then Marner. Nylander held them to the fire for over 40 million dollars and then went out and shit the bed for four months. Losing Marner after that debacle would put a clock over Dubas' head really fast; he'd objectively have kept the worse of the two players.

    The other side of this coin is that nobody's really got dollars to pay Marner like he's asking, with the interesting and quite notable exception of the Devils and MAYBE the Kings?
    Well right, but this is why I said they should have had it figured out months ago.

    In all honesty, I think they should have chosen one of the two LAST offseason, though I get why they tried to wait. But now they've put themselves in a position where they don't get to dictate that. Dubas should already be on the clock, but the reality is that it will be Babcock gone first.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    Nylander got off to a rough start, but finished with 24 points over the last 35 games, and then went and scored 18 points in 8 games at the World Championships. Should this situation result in a Marner not playing for the Leafs next year, Nylander will put up big numbers playing in his spot on Tavares' wing.
    He only put up 20 in his last 33 (50 pts) and 11 in his last 19 (47 pts). Arbitrary data sets are arbitrary, and picking one that just so happens to coincide with his only 3-point game of the year is pretty misleading.

    I don't disagree that his numbers will really jump next year playing with JT or whoever, but he was not very good last year. There's no argument to be made that they aren't worse with him instead of Marner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    He only put up 20 in his last 33 (50 pts) and 11 in his last 19 (47 pts). Arbitrary data sets are arbitrary, and picking one that just so happens to coincide with his only 3-point game of the year is pretty misleading.

    I don't disagree that his numbers will really jump next year playing with JT or whoever, but he was not very good last year. There's no argument to be made that they aren't worse with him instead of Marner.
    I didn't arbitrarily pick a date, started with the game when he broke out of a 1 point in 16 game slump (3 points in 19 games to start the year) and went through the end of the year. If I was interested in padding his stats I would have said he scored 23 points in 30 games between these two dates, but I didn't, because I wasn't.

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    Marner >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nylander by a fucking lot and if they end up keeping Nylander over Marner because they fucked up the negotiations and offseason, then that is absolutely terrible asset management.

    Hope they get this squared away and Marner is donning Leafs gear game 1/82 in October.
    LGR!

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    Quote Originally Posted by phillyb™ View Post
    Marner >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nylander by a fucking lot and if they end up keeping Nylander over Marner because they fucked up the negotiations and offseason, then that is absolutely terrible asset management.

    Hope they get this squared away and Marner is donning Leafs gear game 1/82 in October.
    Doesn't matter. They cant have 3 guys at $11m. They dont even spend $11m on their entire defense combined.
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    Yeah, shit...good point.
    In before "Marner should take a discount"
    I haven't been keeping up with Marner's situation - is it public what he's asking or where TOR and Marner are in terms of negotiations?
    LGR!

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    I don't know why they dumped Zaitsev just to pay Ceci that same amount of money. Then they signed their other RFAs instead of prioritizing Marner. I mean just a colossal fuck up of the cap by Toronto every which way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    I don't know why they dumped Zaitsev just to pay Ceci that same amount of money. Then they signed their other RFAs instead of prioritizing Marner. I mean just a colossal fuck up of the cap by Toronto every which way.
    Term, but I thought that was also very stupid.

    Signing their other RFAs is indicative of knowing that they had to lose Marner or Nylander, but they forced their own hand. Dubas has colossally screwed this up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    I don't know why they dumped Zaitsev just to pay Ceci that same amount of money. Then they signed their other RFAs instead of prioritizing Marner. I mean just a colossal fuck up of the cap by Toronto every which way.
    Remember when a lot of people thought Dubas would be a genius GM because he loved analytics?

    "Take that, old boys club!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    Term, but I thought that was also very stupid.

    Signing their other RFAs is indicative of knowing that they had to lose Marner or Nylander, but they forced their own hand. Dubas has colossally screwed this up.
    Term wasn't their problem. It was immediate cap space. I don't get what they are doing. Really the only way they fix this is by trading Nylander and they have little leverage in negotiations unless they can or have incited a bidding war. There hasn't been any reports of such though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    Term wasn't their problem. It was immediate cap space. I don't get what they are doing. Really the only way they fix this is by trading Nylander and they have little leverage in negotiations unless they can or have incited a bidding war. There hasn't been any reports of such though.
    He's saying term on the Zaitsev/Ceci swap methinks.
    LGR!

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