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Thread: Trouba Expected to Sign a 7-Year Extension Worth $7.5–8 Million Per Season

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    Please name 31 D in the league that are better.
    There's a big difference between being the 28th-best defensemen and being a #1 D.

    It's like how Stepan was a #1c.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    There's a big difference between being the 28th-best defensemen and being a #1 D.

    It's like how Stepan was a #1c.
    I'm not sure what this means. Please name 28 dmen then...
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    I'm not sure what this means. Please name 28 dmen then...
    It doesn't matter what the number is. Qualifying as a #1d is player type, not a subjective ranking.

    There is really only like 15 #1D in the league. Not every team has one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    I'm not sure what this means. Please name 28 dmen then...
    I use “1D” as a label for a type of player, not the position.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    Please name 31 D in the league that are better.
    That's a silly way to determine what a #1 D is.

    San Jose has 3 #1 Dmen. We may not have any.

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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    I use “1D” as a label for a type of player, not the position.
    Exactly.

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    Honestly 8 million doesn't get you a 1D anymore, so I'm not sure what the issue is if Trouba is just a very good 2D instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    Honestly 8 million doesn't get you a 1D anymore, so I'm not sure what the issue is if Trouba is just a very good 2D instead.
    Only 3 d make more than $8 and one just signed last week, who's a generational talent.

    Last year's Norris Winner makes less than 8.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    Honestly 8 million doesn't get you a 1D anymore, so I'm not sure what the issue is if Trouba is just a very good 2D instead.
    Which is why, again, I point to the percentage of cap. "Real" 1D's in today's market eat 10–15% of the cap. Subban (if you still consider him a 1D), Doughty (13.8), Karlsson (14.5), Burns (11), Carlson (10), Hedman (10.7), Byfuglien (10.4), OEL (10.4), etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Only 3 d make more than $8 and one just signed last week, who's a generational talent.

    Last year's Norris Winner makes less than 8.
    And signed his deal three years ago, which accounted for 10.7% of the cap at the time, in a state with no income tax.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    That's a silly way to determine what a #1 D is.

    San Jose has 3 #1 Dmen. We may not have any.
    That's fine. I agree that they do. But Erik Karlsson is making 11m a year so I don't even understand what the debate is.

    Seems like what's being said is this: "Trouba isn't a #1D and therefore shouldn't be paid like a #1D." Okay... he's not. So what's the problem?

    Trouba is better than MOST NHL defensemen so I'm not sure what the point of squabbling over the non-identifiable term of "#1D" even matters. According to this debate there are somehow 15? How is that quantified? He's the #1D on our team and would be on most teams.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    And signed his deal three years ago, which accounted for 10.7% of the cap at the time, in a state with no income tax.
    OK, what about John Carlson who signed last year? 8 mil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    That's fine. I agree that they do. But Erik Karlsson is making 11m a year so I don't even understand what the debate is.

    Seems like what's being said is this: "Trouba isn't a #1D and therefore shouldn't be paid like a #1D." Okay... he's not. So what's the problem?

    Trouba is better than MOST NHL defensemen so I'm not sure what the point of squabbling over the non-identifiable term of "#1D" even matters. According to this debate there are somehow 15? How is that quantified? He's the #1D on our team and would be on most teams.
    That's a fine opinion, I'm sure folks would agree. There just doesn't happen to be any proof to support it, yet. Had he played out a year in NY and had a year like he just had, I'd feel better about the $8 million. It's an 8 year leap of faith.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    OK, what about John Carlson who signed last year? 8 mil.
    10% of the cap. 5.75% minimum state tax rate. Could have earned a greater net income in 11 markets according to CapFriendly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    The other alternative is that you've invested huge money and a 1st-round pick in a guy who doesn't move the needle for your team, beyond moving from 14th to...8th, and I don't think he does. I mean, I'll ask the same question as I did about Hartman or acquiring Panarin but losing Kreider - what's the actual point? They aren't moves that make you so much better that you're a Cup contender right now.

    It is ridiculously poor philosophy to sign a guy simply because "we don't have one." So what if you don't have a #1 RD right now? Unless they fathom themselves contenders this year, it doesn't matter.

    At some point, with all the draft capital they've invested in the defense, you have to trust that you got it right somewhere.
    Are there any 1 or 2 moves that would make us Cup contenders right away? Trouba, Panarin, Kreider might help improve the chances our young guys develop as we hope. If that happens, then we have a Cup contender.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    That's a fine opinion, I'm sure folks would agree. There just doesn't happen to be any proof to support it, yet. Had he played out a year in NY and had a year like he just had, I'd feel better about the $8 million. It's an 8 year leap of faith.
    This isn't really true, though. There is. He just put up 50 points, so his production is in line with the role out of the gate. If you look at some of the analytics on him (WAR, GAR), they also support the theory. There's no proof in the sense that it hasn't been put into practice for a sustainable stretch yet, but there is some data to work from here that support it in theory. I'll grant you that that would qualify, at least technically, as a leap of faith, though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    That's a fine opinion, I'm sure folks would agree. There just doesn't happen to be any proof to support it, yet. Had he played out a year in NY and had a year like he just had, I'd feel better about the $8 million. It's an 8 year leap of faith.
    But it's all a leap of faith. You're either paying for what you hope will happen or paying for what's already happened. Karlsson got paid based on past performances. Panarin is getting 11 million for what he's already done, with the hope that he'll remain just as good as he has been. Nobody thinks either player are going to actually improve.

    Rangers overpaid for Zibanijad at the time they signed him. It turned out to be an amazing deal. Rangers overpaid for Richards at the time they signed him. Turned out to be a terrible deal. It's all a calculated risk.

    Tyler Myers is about to get somewhere around 7m on the open market. The line shifts always, as you know. Saying there are only a few Dmen that make 8 isn't relevant because the cap goes up every year and so do player salaries. If Trouba were the Jets #1D at the time of the trade, we wouldn't be signing him for 8m. It would be much more.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    10% of the cap. 5.75% minimum state tax rate. Could have earned a greater net income in 11 markets according to CapFriendly.
    Which does not address the discussion in any way shape or form. You can, no doubt, get a #1 D for $8 milllion. True or false?

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    Trouba Expected to Sign a 7-Year Extension Worth $7.5–8 Million Per Season

    True. The Rangers will sign one shortly.

    The question is loaded, for the record. What you mean to ask is "#1 defenders have signed for $8 million, true or false" which is true, but not doesn't operate in that vacuum. Year to year variance alone changes the nature of it every summer.

    How much do #1D cost? I'll tell you next summer.


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